Three mics drums recording techniques ...

[malice]

http://sfrecording.com/videos/DrumRecording.mp4

this video is rather self explainatory, you just have to add a kik drum if necessary.

Actually, you could put a sub kik mic and it would probably work.

I hope Recorderman won't be a stranger to this place in the future.

malice

[malice]

And this one is a description of Glynn John's four mic technique that probably inspired Recorderman.

happy recordings

http://www.danalexanderaudio.com/glynjohns.htm



malice

[nobby]

That vid is really cool.

I noticed that Recorderman's 3 mic technique used 2 mics and Glyn Johns' used 5.

So that's an average of 3.5 Wink

[malice]

That vid is really cool.

I noticed that Recorderman's 3 mic technique used 2 mics and Glyn Johns' used 5.

So that's an average of 3.5 Wink


Ok,

you have to add the kik to the first one.

malice

[Johnny]

Cool. Thanks for posting that.

[nobby]

My 3 mic method:

Start by putting up 12 mics.

Wind up using 2 overheads and a room mic.

Bring in the snare and kik.

Yeah Malice, get Recorderman's ass over here!

[r.baby]

Hm. Seems interesting that they wasted money on silly foam traps and wasted time on precision positioning the mics when the floor is basically a trampoline. Those mics are swaying as much as 5-7 cms when he's playing, the phase of that kit must be literally blowing in the wind.

The mic technique is good enough, nothing new but still. Kinda missing at least the 3rd one for the kick, but whatever gets you thru the day. Another classic one would be a 4038 one meter (3 feet) above the center of the snare, and one a meter in front of the kick, a little to the 'floor tom side, no panning what so ever. Sounds terrific too.

[dokushoka]

Seems interesting that they wasted money on silly foam traps

They were free. And they help.

when the floor is basically a trampoline.

As with most things that appear on TV/Video, they may not happen as they do in real life. In order to get good lighting, some things needed to be compromised. The video was shot in a place / set up where the mics moved around. You get a brownie for your snide observation, though.

The mic technique is good enough, nothing new but still. Kinda missing at least the 3rd one for the kick, but whatever gets you thru the day.


Well, it depends on where your scale for "new" begins, but yes, its been around for a while now. I've used this overhead technique with as many as 16 mics. The point of the video was not that you MUST use only two, but merely a way of demonstrating
A) one way to set up decently in phase overheads where your kick and snare are fairly well centered
B) a decent way for people who don't have access to a whole bunch of mics to get a decent kit sound.

I love how there is ONE guy on ever forum that has to knock this video when it was made as an obvious effort to give something back to the "community." Maybe I should charge for it, then you'd really have something to complain about...

:Roll eyes:

[r.baby]

A) one way to set up decently in phase overheads where your kick and snare are fairly well centered
B) a decent way for people who don't have access to a whole bunch of mics to get a decent kit sound.

I love how there is ONE guy on ever forum that has to knock this video when it was made as an obvious effort to give something back to the "community." Maybe I should charge for it, then you'd really have something to complain about...


Well, I'm sorry. I just thought this was supposed to be a pro forum. As in: we don't really NEED to know that OH mics need to be aligned to avoid phase problems. Anyway, I was wrong and I'm sorry about that. ‹‹€››‹‹€››‹‹€››‹‹€››‹‹€››‹‹€››‹‹€››‹‹€››‹‹€››#2 it seems. Byebye.

[r.baby]

Oh for chrissake, how childish can you be?

G E A R S L U T Z then. Sigh.

[dokushoka]

Well, I'm sorry. I just thought this was supposed to be a pro forum. As in: we don't really NEED to know that OH mics need to be aligned to avoid phase problems. Anyway, I was wrong and I'm sorry about that. ‹‹€››‹‹€››‹‹€››‹‹€››‹‹€››‹‹€››‹‹€››‹‹€››‹‹€›› #2 it seems. Byebye.

I'm not sure what you're getting at, as:

1) I didn't post the video here, someone else did
2) Several people on this forum obviously found the video helpful
3) I have met more "pros" who didn't know about this technique, than pros who did.

[Brendo]

Well, I'm sorry. I just thought this was supposed to be a pro forum. As in: we don't really NEED to know that OH mics need to be aligned to avoid phase problems.

Fucking geez. Lighten up.

[malice]

Well, I'm sorry. I just thought this was supposed to be a pro forum. As in: we don't really NEED to know that OH mics need to be aligned to avoid phase problems. Anyway, I was wrong and I'm sorry about that. G E a R S L U T Z#2 it seems. Byebye.

Well,

Don't be so full of yourself.

This forum aim is to help musicians and recordist into achieving satisfactory recordings by teaching them simple techniques.

This is to my belief, far different from G E A R S L U TZ.

As for this site being run by professionals, I can assure you this is the case.


thank you for playin

malice

[Scratchy Potts]

fuckin cool vid mate, please keep them coming
it means a lot to some people...:Coolio:

[otek]

I just thought this was supposed to be a pro forum.

It's run by pros, but anyone's welcome here. Even you.

we don't really NEED to know that OH mics need to be aligned to avoid phase problems.

Who are these "we" you are talking about? This particular forum, Recording, Mixing and Production Made Easy, is geared towards beginners and hobbyists. Some people may very well "need to know" about alternative overhead miking methods.

My thanks to the makers of this video for their contribution. Don't worry about the detractors - like you say, there's at least one know-it-all in each forum.

[Bob Olhsson]

When I started hanging out in studios around 1962 the "latest thing" was adding a kick mike to the single overhead drum mike people had been using for around 10 years.

A couple years later people began using snare mikes. Typically in Detroit that meant a Shure 545 which was equivalent to the 57 which was released about 4 years later. By the time I moved out of the mastering room in 1968 we were up to kick, snare overhead and hi hat which were all Neumann KM-86s.

[malice]

Typically in Detroit that meant a Shure 545 which was equivalent to the 57 which was released about 4 years later.


Wasn't it a bit brighter than a regular 57 ?

malice

[dokushoka]

fuckin cool vid mate, please keep them coming
it means a lot to some people...:Coolio:

Thank you. I made this well over a year ago, but suddenly, in the last 3 months, its started to get TONS of hits. Its nice to know that so many people find it useful and that it annoys the assholes. What better result could I hope for? :Wink:

I haven't made any more, since this one, because I broke up with the girl who's camera I used. Oh well. :Razz:

[malice]

Nice to have you on board, and thanx for that vid dokushoka?

;)

malice

[MacGregor]

This particular forum, Recording, Mixing and Production Made Easy, is geared towards beginners and hobbyists. Some people may very well "need to know" about alternative overhead miking methods.

Most probably I'll never record drums in my life but even I think it's
an interesting video.
And if someone one a budged asks me 'where to start' I'll point
it to exactly that video for sure.

[Scratchy Potts]

Thank you. I made this well over a year ago, but suddenly, in the last 3 months, its started to get TONS of hits. Its nice to know that so many people find it useful and that it annoys the assholes. What better result could I hope for? :Wink:

I haven't made any more, since this one, because I broke up with the girl who's camera I used. Oh well. :Razz:

:Cry: .thats a shame mate!......:Mad: Hope she didnt take ya records as well??...:lol:

[Senap]

Thank you. I made this well over a year ago, but suddenly, in the last 3 months, its started to get TONS of hits. Its nice to know that so many people find it useful and that it annoys the assholes. What better result could I hope for? :Wink:

I haven't made any more, since this one, because I broke up with the girl who's camera I used. Oh well. :Razz:

You didn't get half of the camera??? :icon_eek:

oh.... prenup......

:Roll eyes:

BTW. Nice video. It's so much easier to get a grip of things when you see it with your own eyes.

[nobby]

Thank you. I made this well over a year ago, but suddenly, in the last 3 months, its started to get TONS of hits. Its nice to know that so many people find it useful and that it annoys the assholes. What better result could I hope for? :Wink:



Nice to see you here, Recorderma... Uh, dokushoka :grin:

[EyreSpace]

I started using this technique a few years ago, before the video existed. It doesn't work for every genre (like heavy metal etc.,) but it does work well for natural sounding recordings. Thanks!

[dokushoka]

Nice to see you here, Recorderma... Uh, dokushoka :grin:

Well I am definitely not Recorderman, although, to be honest, I don't know who he really is to begin with. :Razz:

[Skwaidu]

Gotta add that I found the vid helpful even if I have been using predominantly this type of a OH setup for a year or two now... But I hadn't thought about clamping a string with the kick pedal for triangulation! :)

[volthause]

Gotta add that I found the vid helpful even if I have been using predominantly this type of a OH setup for a year or two now... But I hadn't thought about clamping a string with the kick pedal for triangulation! :)

You use this type OH setup? Really? Don't you mainly do heavier / metal style stuff? I haven't found a way for it to be useful for even hard-rock stuff. Maybe I'm just not doing it right.

[Skwaidu]

You use this type OH setup? Really? Don't you mainly do heavier / metal style stuff? I haven't found a way for it to be useful for even hard-rock stuff. Maybe I'm just not doing it right.

I do use it, most of the time... But I don't usually do standardized "metal" per se, mostly some kinds of watered down "pop" versions of it... :P And anyway, probably more than 50% of the stuff I do would actually be called "pop", "rock", "jazz", "R'n'B" or even "Soul". ;)

And for the heavier stuff I just EQ more drastically, I still like the kit image and phase coherency I get with this setup.

[volthause]

I do use it, most of the time... But I don't usually do standardized "metal" per se, mostly some kinds of watered down "pop" versions of it... :P And anyway, probably more than 50% of the stuff I do would actually be called "pop", "rock", "jazz", "R'n'B" or even "Soul". ;)

And for the heavier stuff I just EQ more drastically, I still like the kit image and phase coherency I get with this setup.

Ah. Good to know. As I feared, I must be doing it wrong. :lol:

[Skwaidu]

Ah. Good to know. As I feared, I must be doing it wrong. :lol:

:Razz:

If it helps, I usually use a little more than the "2 stick" distance, and also I try to get the mikes a little closer to each other than in the vid... And most importantly, in a regular close& ambient miked 14+ channels "power drums" scenario I very often end up angling the OH mikes away from the snare, towards the cymbals... That still retains the "kit image" aspect but gets me closer to "cymbal OH's" world. I then proceed to use a couple of pairs of room mikes(Usually a closish FOK/ kick bloom stereo pair placed low in XY, Blumlein or ORTF and a far/wide AB setting... Often with null- facing fig-8 ribbons or omni B&K/DPA's) to capture a larger "whole kit" image with the ability to blend ambience in to taste... With maybe some added amb weirdness/ mondo crush channels thrown in for fun.

(Hey, admin folks! I'd like to be able to use "normal" things like :P for smileys...)

[Mixerman]

Well I am definitely not Recorderman, although, to be honest, I don't know who he really is to begin with. :Razz:

Recorderman is a guy here in LA by the name of Eric Greedy. I'm fairly certain he's no longer hiding this fact. I have known Eric for years. He and I were on a session together, and he started telling me about this technique in which he placed the overheads in such a manner that they were equidistant from the snare drum. This allowed the snare drum to sit directly in the center of the stereo image. I found the concept fascinating on paper, and so I tried it myself and with great success. Since then, I have used this techniqe on more than one occasion. It works fucking great. I love it.

The name Recorderman came out as a sort of joke when Eric and I were on a session together at the Village, and Alphajerk was getting into it with me. The name stuck for a while, and Eric posted this technique for everyone to benefit from.

This video is pretty much implementing the basic foundation of his micing technique, which was posted sometime in 2001 or 2002. That's not to say that the maker of this video didn't come up with this independently, or whatever. It doesn't matter, we're all sharing this stuff on the internet.

The better the drummer, the less mics you need to capture a killer sound, mostly because they produce their OWN balance and the mics pick up that goood balance. When you use individual mics, it is because you need to CREATE a balance for a drummer.

Enjoy,

Mixerman

[otek]

The better the drummer, the less mics you need to capture a killer sound, mostly because they produce their OWN balance and the mics pick up that goood balance. When you use individual mics, it is because you need to CREATE a balance for a drummer.

And OMFG does this happen a lot. =/

Unless the drummer is really on top of his dynamics (a rare occurrence indeed, even though I've recorded plenty of drummers who THINK they are) I would suggest using more mics. If you find the overheads to sound nice, you won't have to use everything you print. But it's better to have those extra tracks than not to have them.

[Brendo]

Isn't it also that sometimes a "natural balance" doesn't work in the context of a mix, and so you need to add in close mics etc?

How did that technique of closemicing as well as the overall mics evolve, anyway?

[Skwaidu]

The better the drummer, the less mics you need to capture a killer sound, mostly because they produce their OWN balance and the mics pick up that goood balance. When you use individual mics, it is because you need to CREATE a balance for a drummer.

Enjoy,

Mixerman

Very true. It's also genre/ aesthetics- dependent though. For much of the stuff leaning towards "metal" it's a case of having to be able to hype up the attacks and hi mids of the individual drums to the extent of total hyper-realism... I at least try to avoid samples when I can. ;)

Also, sometimes it's a production decision to be able to compress the crap out of an exaggerated Hh, for example. I tend to favor recording a little too much channels just because of this. You don't have to use them all!

BTW, for a recent record I would label as "soul", we actually recorded the basic tracks in a semi-circle in the same room with some minimal goboing, and ended up using a "all" ambience stereo pair solely for drums and bass pickup in the mix, just augmenting the guitar, rhodes and bass from the close mikes... (The live levels *were* designed for close mic augmentation in the recording process) Oh, the drummer was Mikko Kakkuriniemi from Team Europa and Solar, the percussionist was Mamba, the drummer/ programmer/ percussionit from Giant Robot. :Wink:


(Edit: Message to admins... I would also really want to see stuff like ;) translate in to smilies... )

[otek]

Oh, the drummer was Mikko Kakkuriniemi from Team Europa and Solar, the percussionist was Mamba, the drummer/ programmer/ percussionit from Giant Robot.

Pfft. With such utterly mediocre percussion sections at your disposal, I definitely see the need to mic the drummer's ass, and mic the mic that mics the drummer's ass.




:Coolio: :very happy: :Twisted: :icon_eek: :lol:


PS. Inwardly: seething envy, etc.

[nobby]

the drummer was Mikko Kakkuriniemi

That name rings a (cow)bell.

[Bob Olhsson]

...The better the drummer, the less mics you need to capture a killer sound,..What always amazed me has been drummers asking for more mikes not realizing they were really insulting themselves.

That said, I've begun setting up two different overhead setups, 3 snare mikes, 3 kick mikes, a hi-hat and separate tom mikes. I use maybe a total of 4 of these but which 4 depends on the song and the final arrangement. Often as not it's the same U67 overheads, FET 47 kick and KM 84 snare I used at Motown. I just stopped cranking the hell out of 5k like I used to going to 15 ips. tape.

[malice]

Often as not it's the same U67 overheads, FET 47 kick and KM 84 snare I used at Motown. I just stopped cranking the hell out of 5k like I used to going to 15 ips. tape.

Damn Bob,

That is my set up for Jazz recordings

:D

malice

[Skwaidu]

Mikko Kaakkuriniemi

Oh, his name written correctly. I wish I could have edited the original post... :Roll eyes:

[Barish]

Apparently they cut this with Recorderman method as well, so I'm told:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzqumbhfxRo

B.

[TSTW]

i recorded recently with a Samson Concertline CL kick drum mic, a 57, and a seinheiser e845 Evolution as an OH, just the one, placed in the middle of the kit approximatly 40cm from the highest cymbol. Messing around with a scratch drum sound for a friend who was recording a track for A&R demo. It sounded suprisingly good under the circumstances

[nobby]

Apparently they cut this with Recorderman method as well, so I'm told:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzqumbhfxRo

B.

LMFBO

I think that may have been edited.

[Psyko/Acoustics]

Thanks for the links!

:Thumbsup: