which preamp VS the fireface 800 preamps?

[mattian]

hello

i've a fireface 800 and i like it, but now, after.. 3 years i would like to take another preamp.. to smooth the transients in a acoustic guitar, to smooth the S and the highs in general on vocals..

and also to smooth the highs in general.. of samples, loop, soft synths, etc.. yes also for bass, but i already have a good sound on bass...

so, which preamp can be better than the fireface ones?
all the preamps? or not..

i think the fireface preamps have something strange on the highs freq and also a bump in the mids, but i don't know exactly what or where.. but the sound is not so "real"

but there are so many preamps, the cheap (but dedicated) preamps can be better than the rme ones? i've always asked my self.. but why to buy, for example, a studio project preamp.. it will be better then the fireface preamps?

another question..the joe meek oneQ, twinQ, sixQ preamp.. (is the same right?) it will be better than the fireface ones?

ok, better doesn't exist.. but better for me, for what i've described i'm looking for..

which preamp can be an improvement for my situation?

THANKS!

[Knastratt]

In an estimated budget from your suggestions - I'd say the Really Nice Pre.

http://www.fmraudio.com/RNP8380.htm

Cheers - Pär

[mattian]

uhm.. i've heard it.. i don't like it, i mean.. nothing special.. nothing particular for me..

[Tim Halligan]

i would like to take another preamp.. to smooth the transients in a acoustic guitar, to smooth the S and the highs in general on vocals..

and also to smooth the highs in general.. of samples, loop, soft synths, etc..



From your description, it sounds like you may actually want either a compressor, or a channel strip with a compressor/de-esser/preamp on board.

Cheers,
Tim

[mattian]

maybe yes, but i already got a compressor.. so i need a preamp to improve my chain...

what do you think about joe meek oneQ?
and about chameleon labs 7602?

[mattian]

i've heard now the comparison between 1073 and chameleon 7602 on chameleon site... are two totally different things... i was thinking... well.. the chameleon maybe have push in some way their chameleon clips.. to make them sound better..

than i've heard it.. and i've thought.. well.. maybe they should push their clips in some way.. because the difference is huge..

-1 for chameleon..

hey its incredible how the 1073 tames the S in the female singer.. gives deepness to the male.. and 3d sound in general to all sources.. and the guitar is simply already compressed.. you hear the attack of the notes at the same level of the sustain..almost... and this body, also sweetness.. i really like the midrange.. someone sells me a 1073 at the price of a chameleon? come on..please

[otek]

I'm not sure a preamp will do the things you ask...

But since we're talking about it, and you find the RNP to be "nothing special", it sounds to me like you need to dig deep in your wallet and get the real deal.

By that I mean the classics or "modern classics" - API, Neve, Daking, etc. The Fearn also has a pretty smooth, big sound but it's very expensive.

This may not be very helpful since we are talking major investments, but the alternative is to sit down and think about what you can do with the gear you own. Are you sure the preamps are the problem?

The mic selection (and placement) makes an infinitely bigger impact on the sound than the pre. Same goes for the source samples when it comes to keyboards and VST instruments.

Something as simple as using a good passive DI with a good transformer when you track keyboards, works wonders.


otek

[Zoesch]

I'm not sure a preamp will do the things you ask...

But since we're talking about it, and you find the RNP to be "nothing special", it sounds to me like you need to dig deep in your wallet and get the real deal.

By that I mean the classics or "modern classics" - API, Neve, Daking, etc. The Fearn also has a pretty smooth, big sound but it's very expensive.

This may not be very helpful since we are talking major investments, but the alternative is to sit down and think about what you can do with the gear you own. Are you sure the preamps are the problem?

The mic selection (and placement) makes an infinitely bigger impact on the sound than the pre. Same goes for the source samples when it comes to keyboards and VST instruments.

Something as simple as using a good passive DI with a good transformer when you track keyboards, works wonders.


otek

And the cupped warrior is right on the money... if the RNP didn't do it for you the only similarly priced alternative I've liked (The SafeSoundAudio P1) won't be of your liking, so you're now in Chandler, Daking, API, etc. territory... so if you're looking for an all around starter an API lunchbox with 2 512c or Buzz pres will do wonders... that's if you like them. I also second the passive DI for keys (And it's a wonderful thing to have for guitars and bass as well)... I'm personally fond of the Radial boxes but YMMV.

[Starfucker]

I stumbled upon this SPL Track one (http://www.soundperformancelab.com/index.php?id=119&L=1) yesterday. Never heard it, but low price, de-ess, comp, eq.

Any good?

[mattian]

well the major reason i'm thinking about preamp is because i have no preamps :) except the fireface build in.. so i think it will be useful to use in tracking to push more the level into a compressor, and also in mixing to push more the level into a compressor without push too much the levels into the daw.. i hear a bit of nasal sound when i do that.. or anyway the sounds become more flat, less 3d, if means something..

so, i'm thinking to use it also in mix, go out, in the preamp, compressor and daw.

but yes i've got the same doubt you say about soft synths, keyboard, samples etc.. maybe can helps but not so much..

what i'm expecting is that a good preamp works well to smooth the SSS and the guitar transient.. i say that because i've heard that.. in preamps comparison, some one of those, really makes the S so sweet.. and the sound so 3d... lets say great river, john hardy, api 512c, neve 1073 :) .. ok i'm talking about things that costs very much..

the other thing about the preamp choice is that when i've tracked all from fireface i hear that i need to work a lot, isn't like.. all faders at 0 and 95% is done... i hear a lot of transients, the rms so low (but i don't say that because i want all LOUD) so the music is distant, and is not focused..

a guitar in a great river has that sound, that shaped transients, and the body, the meat, comes out very well..

i really like when the mids works, when the important frequencies are focused..

for instance, i've tracked a digital piano in 4 tracks.. 2 direct L-R than 1 track into a GK bass amp with hi cut engaged and a bit of hi mids and hi lows pushed, than into 1176 and one track into the GK amp .. recorded from the speaker with a sm58

well.. the best was the GK than the 1176, the L-R was shit.. my player don't believe that, so i made a blind test.. and about L-R he says.. what have you done to that track.. it sounds strange.. is the GK right?

the GK + sm58 was the track with more transients but very shaped, you hear the wood of a fake piano, very present in the mids/low mids and not muddy.

another happy way for the drum loops et similar is using a EH big muff, usually with almost no sustain and tone all closed, than the level knob around 12 or 2 o'clock, than a boss ph-3 in a particular setting, a boss blues driver with the gain at 9 o'clock, the tones almost all closed and the level a bit low.. i use this to cut the extra lows.. and leave some other edge..

great result in this way, the only cons is that there is a lot of noise, hum.. even if a use a red eye... for reamping..

have you got other tricks like these ?


I'm not sure a preamp will do the things you ask...

But since we're talking about it, and you find the RNP to be "nothing special", it sounds to me like you need to dig deep in your wallet and get the real deal.

By that I mean the classics or "modern classics" - API, Neve, Daking, etc. The Fearn also has a pretty smooth, big sound but it's very expensive.

This may not be very helpful since we are talking major investments, but the alternative is to sit down and think about what you can do with the gear you own. Are you sure the preamps are the problem?

The mic selection (and placement) makes an infinitely bigger impact on the sound than the pre. Same goes for the source samples when it comes to keyboards and VST instruments.

Something as simple as using a good passive DI with a good transformer when you track keyboards, works wonders.


otek

[mattian]

arghhh i've heard a neve portico 5012........ REALLY IMPRESSIVE!!!! in a clean setting is more full than in a pushed setting :) it's really huge and 3d and retro and all....

[Al Who]

You might want to check out the Demeter HXM-1 HX. It's a tube preamp with Jensen mic transformers and a THAT Technologies solid state output buffer. It's basically neutral... not colored, but it does add a touch of tube magic. The treble is silky, smooth and the bass is full and rich.

It handles modern condenser mics really well. Works well with mics that some folks consider bright. Smooths them out a little. You can Google for Demeter Amplification. They currently have the preamp marked down to $1349 at their on-line store. If memory serves, there is a 30 day trial period.

I have one myself and it is an excellent neutral sounding preamp with a completely flat response curve and good phase coherence. It comes with Electro-Harmonix 12AX7 tubes. I've substituted Tungsol ECC803s tubes from Tube Depot. They are a little tubier sounding than the Electro-Harmonix tubes. You can easily experiment with different tubes.

Also, it's two channels. That makes it a pretty good value. Especially considering it's hand made with all point to point wiring. If your budget will stretch, it's something worth checking out. You don't hear about Demeter much these days because he doesn't do any advertising except on his website. He's been designing and selling his gear for 30 years and his customer service is legendary. I think his business is entirely word of mouth.

-Al

PS. If you can solder, you ought to also look at Seventh Circle Audio. They have a website and sell their preamps as kits. Bob Ohlsson recently said here in the forums that he was impressed with their products and considered them as good as anything out there. They have a basic solid state module that doesn't cost much. If you buy two of that module with a chassis, power supply and wiring harness it will cost about $500. It looks like you need a good multimeter and first rate soldering skills. Not recommended for a first electronics kit.

[mattian]

i'm really thank you for this suggestion! your description remind me the twin reverb or bassman, fender clean tube sound in general...

is that?

and do you think can work as all sources preamp? like the great river?

thank you really!

i don't consider the DIY.. i'm a bit dumb about DIY........