What is your method of dealing with Midrange Management By Way Of Ommission?

[Dubnick]

So I've been mixing this track where the two main rhythm guitars playing all throughout the track are totally sucked out - nearly no mid-range to speak of. One of the guitars I'm able pull a little bit of midrange from by taking the Ribbon mic only (leaving out the 57 and 421), pulling a lot around 200 and boosting at 550-750 with a wide Q and at 1k a little less, but the other one is like pulling blood from a stone - there is no "there" there and either way, I don't like dealing with the weird/harsh artifacts of boosting a lot (I much prefer to us subtractive EQ as much as possible). Also, these main L/R rhythm guitars are essentially doubling each other almost exactly, which makes it sound narrow and emphasizes the low end build up even more. I'm just curious as to what you guys (specifically Slipperman) do when you're handed smile eq guitars with way too much bass and highs and no mids. I've already done a mix they seem happy with, but it still bugs the shit out of me. I called the guitarist and left a message, seeing if he'd mind coming down and retracking the rhythm parts again (I wasn't at the tracking sessions), but that would be a drag for both of us. Any tips/tricks for breathing life into sucked out guitars or is it totally futile?

[weedywet]

...I don't like dealing with the weird/harsh artifacts of boosting a lot (I much prefer to us subtractive EQ as much as possible). ...



why?


anyway,
If you can ascertain HOW the mids got sucked out, it might give more of a clue what to do now.
Some detective work phone calls might be in order.

Although I'm NOT of the "better to cut than boost" cult, at ALL, in this case it might make sense to use two broad shelves and severely roll the highs and lows (say 200 and below and 5k and above) until the mid range seems back in balance.
That might be better than trying to guess what damage someone specifically did.

[Slipperman]

Retrack if at all possible.

There is really no way to get the center back in the guitar properly after the fact in the fabric of my experience.

SM.

[Cary Chilton]

great thread! I hope Dub posts comparison clips!

Slippy, in cases where the so called smile EQ worked in the mix and sounded mid scooped -like a lot of Metallica songs.....
This is a guess why that mid scooped sound doesn't get completely wased the fuck out live or in the recordings.
Is this close or I am still buzzing from my pinner 2 hours ago...???? ;)

I know in those particular early recording the amp was a IIC+ but I don't know:
-what is the center freq of the IIC+? (750?)

-how powerful is that eq on that amp -that eq looks like a cheap piece of shit?

-what might the Q be in the EQ?

I am guessing the reason why that mid- scooped sound worked in those Metallica recording was because they were a lot more mids than people think. Whatever the main center freq is was used enough to give the impression of no mids.
Second the bass full is deceiving because the amps bass control was set on 0 if the readings are true.. so the result is a tight bass, not more overbearing than the mids.
So basically they should be 100 -500 that is strong, 750 (Q???) than is weak, 1K to 20K that is strong....

Is that a fair assestment??

[AxeSlash]

Boost and cut shit until it works. Pile EQ on EQ on EQ to do it if you have to; IMO it's about the only way to salvage a shite sound that can't be retracked. And even then it won't be great. I've had to shove horrendous amounts of EQ on parts that I've had no tracking control over before now, and still managed to get *something* usable (albeit not necessarily as satisfactory as I would like), so you should be able to do the same.

If you're looking to record heavy shit for a living though, I'd seriously think about getting over your EQ scruples. SERIOUSLY.

Once in a blue moon we get a guitar sound that is nice enough that we don't need to do much to it...but that's a fucking rarity. Personally I have no problem with doing whatever the hell it takes to get it to sit right - and if that involves "ridiculous" EQ, so fucking be it. I have no scruples about doing a +24dB boost on something if it needs it.


And just something else to consider: context. Are the guitars *actually* that mid-less (I'm venturing they probably are, but I'm playing devil's advocate here), or is it the rest of the mix that's making them sound that way? Everything Affects Everything™

[Zoesch]

Retrack if at all possible.

There is really no way to get the center back in the guitar properly after the fact in the fabric of my experience.

SM.

Slippy is absolutely right, besides EQ introduces all sorts of lovely phase inconsistencies in your signal that you don't want to be fighting during a mix.

If a full retracking is out of the question, how about tracking some overdubs then?

[Tommy Fobia]

I ALWAYS request a d.i of every guitar track if I'm mixing but not recording the material. It's not always possible, I know - but its made my life a lot easier when dealing with questionable guitar sounds - as it enables me to re-amp rather than try to polish a turd.

[otek]

If the midrange scoop is achieved by board EQ there may be a fighting chance to get it back.

If it's a matter of pre-guitar amp EQ (bad) or deliberate phase manipulation between mics (worse), forget it. Retracking is really the best course of action.


otek