G12T-75 vs Vintage 30

[touji-za-nai]

Replacing speakers in my Valveking 212 to get rid of that "muddiness" that keeps the amp from really sounding nice at high volumes.

I'm leaning towards the Vintage 30s, but what do you think?

[M.Brane]

Depends on if you like cone distortion. The V30 will give you more of that if you're into it, but only when you crank it up. At lower power levels it will be relatively clean.

I tend to prefer higher wattage speakers in an open-back cabinet. The V30s get a little too sloppy in that situation for me.

[touji-za-nai]

what is cone distortion?

[M.Brane]

what is cone distortion?

Basically it's distortion added by the speaker itself as it struggles to convert a strong current into air movement.

It's not something that's easily described in print by a non-writer like myself, but I know it when I hear, or more importantly feel it.

[touji-za-nai]

Basically it's distortion added by the speaker itself as it struggles to convert a strong current into air movement.

It's not something that's easily described in print by a non-writer like myself, but I know it when I hear, or more importantly feel it.

well I don't want any unneeded distortion... (ugh) I'm pretty confused what to get now lol

[Jasco]

You might go for two different speakers in the cab.

As with anything audio, it's hard to make a buying decision without listening first.

You may want to buy several speakers and try them, then take the ones back you don't like, or sell them. You may lose a little money in the process, but just consider it a cost of your education.

[otek]

what is cone distortion?

Cone distortion, better known as breakup, is when the concentric motion of the cone gets refracted by the edge suspension of the speaker unit back toward the center of the cone, causing the speaker to "ripple" in a complex motion. Think of tossing a pebble into, say, a bird bath.

Because some of the "ripples" are in phase with the outward concentric motion and some are out of phase, this will cause different frequencies to become either slightly louder or softer.

This happens at increasing intensity as the level increases, and is a part of the signature characteristics of the speaker.


otek

[M.Brane]

well I don't want any unneeded distortion... (ugh) I'm pretty confused what to get now lol

Not all distortion is the dirty kind.

See otek's excellent description above.

[Cary Chilton]

nothing special about the G12T's... imo. Basically a higher efficiency speaker, has slight mid scooped sound, and lots of bass.
Vintage 30 is very bright, mid scooped, tight bass -decent of speed metal
I would buy a Heritage G12M or G12H any day....they record great, work best in Rock, Blues, Grunge, 80's Metal, 70's Rock, killer in most any other application. Vintage 30 would edge them out in death metal, speed metal where a mid scooped, bright sound in desired.

[touji-za-nai]

nothing special about the G12T's... imo. Basically a higher efficiency speaker, has slight mid scooped sound, and lots of bass.
Vintage 30 is very bright, mid scooped, tight bass -decent of speed metal
I would buy a Heritage G12M or G12H any day....they record great, work best in Rock, Blues, Grunge, 80's Metal, 70's Rock, killer in most any other application. Vintage 30 would edge them out in death metal, speed metal where a mid scooped, bright sound in desired.

we don't play speed metal or tech grind or anything related. We are more hard rock than metal. ie. He Is Legend.. Also, I have a peavey 6505+ on a marshall 1960 (G12T's) And I played the valveking through it and it was pretty nice. I just wanted to hear what you all had to say about the v30s.

[Cary Chilton]

cool, so I gave you more than enough info ;)

[Dave Perry]

Second the V-30's being bright and tight sounding. I think they are good rock speakers. Have you considered greenbacks?

[touji-za-nai]

Second the V-30's being bright and tight sounding. I think they are good rock speakers. Have you considered greenbacks?

actually ya, I have been looking at the greenbacks/G12M G12H speakers recently.. what's you take on those vs v30s?

[Dave Perry]

Greenbacks are more vintage sounding, really, IMO, than V30's. If you want the old Marshall sound, GB's are the way to go, really. Though it's not overly bright so if your amp is dull sounding, not really sure the match will work unless you maybe are using a SC loaded axe.

The Vintage 30 is supposed to be based on the Vox Blue but they don't sound the same. However, Celestion released the "Gold" which is supposedly identical in tone to the Blue at higher power, but they are spendy. I haven't heard a G12H but it's supposed to be between a GB and a V30.

Here's a decent rundown on the Celesition line:

http://www.musictoyz.com/guitar/gtrstuff/celestian.php

I actually have a very cool speaker that I will now needlessly brag about. It's a transitional model that Celestion only made a small number of. It has the first Greenback cone (pre 1970) in the Vox silver basket (same thing as the Alnico Blue, different paint job). It's really a 15 watt alnico magnet Greenback (alnico compresses at or near its power peak, thus the special mojo). :Thumbsup: :Coolio:

[touji-za-nai]

We want a modern heavy tone so I suppose the greenbacks are out.. If i bought today I would get 2 v30s

[Cary Chilton]

If you want truly modern , you will want 75 watters. Huge Bass, scooped mids, extended highs.... Black Widows -mesa brand, Scumback speakers H-75 really great, you can call WEBER and make a custom speaker to your specs -maybe the coolest idea, V30 will be fine, too.

[lowyaw]

i am sure i am in the minority, but i prefer G12-75 to V30s. the latter seem too middy and oboxious to me. 75s are a little more harsh on the top end, but sound "bigger", a little cleaner and more balanced overall.

[Fatty]

Hopefully this will be of some assistance... here is a comparison with audio samples of several different cabs including ones loaded with the speakers in your question.

Now, I know they didn't use the amp you are using but I think this would be helpful to determine differences in speakers.... hopefully. :)

Finnish magazine Riffi tested these following cabs:

1. Bogner Oversized 2x12 | Celestion V30
2. Bogner Ecstacy | Celestion V30 | New
3. Bogner Uberschall | Celestion V30 | Used (Top Right Speaker)
4. Bogner Uberschall | Celestion G12T-75 | Used (Top Left Speaker)
5. Engl | Celestion V30 | New
6. Framus Dragon | Celestion V30 | New
7. Hughes&Kettner SC412 | Celestion Rockdriver | New
8. Hughes&Kettner CC412 | 25 Celestion Greenback | Used
9. Hiwatt | Fane | New
10. Krank Revolution | Eminence V12 Legend | New
11. Marshall 1960 | Celestion Greenback | New
12. Marshall 1960 Lead | Celestion G12T-75 | New
13. Marshall Handwired | Celestion Greenback | New
14. Marshall 1960 Alakaappi | Celestion V30
15. Mesaboogie Rectifier Standard | Celestion V30 | New
16. VHT | Eminence P50E | New

Download the samples:
http://www.riffi.com/riffi065/Riffi_kaappitesti.zip

Puhdas = Clean
Särö = Distortion
Alakaappi = Base Cabinet

The amp they used was a Peavey JSX. All samples were reamped using these microphones and a Millenia mic pre:

Shure SM57
Sennheiser e609
Shure SM81
DPA 4006 (one meter from the cab)

(they apparently confused the G12 and the V30 in the Bogner cabinet)

[blackieC]

i am sure i am in the minority, but i prefer G12-75 to V30s. the latter seem too middy and oboxious to me. 75s are a little more harsh on the top end, but sound "bigger", a little cleaner and more balanced overall.

You may not be in the minority in terms of which amp is best matched with which cabinet. I absolutely love a JCM 800 head paired with a a G12-75 cab. The 70 watt speakers suck balls in my humble opinion. The vintage 30's have their place. Try moving the mic before you condemn the speaker. The V30 has some interesting things to say.


I may not have a full understanding of other amps, but I knows me some Marshalls.