Speaking of Live Digital Consoles...

[clicktrack]

It seems that we're not the only ones talking about this of late (go fig!).

Here's an article from the latest Sound and Video Contractor magazine discussing Digital Consoles for Live Use (http://svconline.com/mag/avinstall_live_digital_mixing/)

A few that we mentioned here, but also a few others to note...

Enjoy & Discuss...thoughts?

[Jason Phair]

The XL8 is popular among tours?


There's a handful of them in existance!

[Tim Halligan]

The Midas XL8's large-format, high-end design has made it a popular choice among major tours and venues. The mixer's tactile architecture is familiar and easy to navigate using selectable colored LEDs for faders and groupings, and third-party hardware and software plug-ins are easily integrated with the desk's open architecture.


Is it just me, or does this look like a recipe for disaster?


Each mic input features three discrete mic preamps to eliminate output sharing...


OK. I don't do any large-scale FOH gigs, so I don't know how relevant this is...

...but WTF?

:Roll eyes:


Can someone explain this to me please?


Cheers,
Tim

[clicktrack]

Each mic input features three discrete mic preamps to eliminate output sharing...
OK. I don't do any large-scale FOH gigs, so I don't know how relevant this is...

...but WTF?

:Roll eyes:


Can someone explain this to me please?


Cheers,
Tim

Well, its a noble idea...they're essentially providing a 3-way split so that an outside split isn't necessary.

The problem is that only one of the splits is transformer isolated. Too many consoles provide "splits" that are essentially just Y-cables. What this means is that you're essentially connecting multiple systems together.

What this does is, at the very least, changes the impedance seen by the mic which, as a result, affects the mic's frequency response seen by all three consoles attached to that preamp.

For a FOH/MON rig, that frequency response tradeoff would probably be such a minimal concern that it is truly in the noise. However from the live broadcast or recording perspective, that can have more of an effect.

At most, it could allow a grounding problem from one system to be fully reflected into the second system.

Either way, a noble idea, but the only way to do it would be having a transformer on each of the 2 splits with the fixed input to provide standard phantom.

If you're going to need a split, isolation is the key, no doubt about it.

[Tim Halligan]

Either way, a noble idea, but the only way to do it would be having a transformer on each of the 2 splits with the fixed input to provide standard phantom.

If you're going to need a split, isolation is the key, no doubt about it.

Indeed.

I've had to deal with that shit previously...I'd just never run across their terminology before.

I kinda translated it as "mic input -> 3 pre's -> 3 seperate (potentially differently gained!) line-level outputs -> WTF?"

Or;

3 variable direct outs per input... :Roll eyes:

It didn't even cross my mind about recording/broadcast splits... :Uh oh:

Colour me "idiot".

Cheers,
Tim

[clicktrack]

Indeed.

I've had to deal with that shit previously...I'd just never run across their terminology before.

I kinda translated it as "mic input -> 3 pre's -> 3 seperate (potentially differently gained!) line-level outputs -> WTF?"


You're right...it is worded badly...I did think it was something "newfangled" that midas was bringing out until I went to their website. Its explained a bit better there.

I get the impression that the writer of this article spoke to the marketing reps for all the companies involved. I find it hard to believe that Tascam, for example, is making a major foothold in A LOT of venues. I can see them being in some churches and small houses. And Jason's point about the quantity of XL8's is also valid...

Interesting article to point out what is potentially out there, (i.e. the Cadac was something that I never really thought of or considered) but I definitely take it with a grain of salt. I was curious to see what others thought of the write up.

[frnjplayer]

Well, its a noble idea...they're essentially providing a 3-way split so that an outside split isn't necessary.

The problem is that only one of the splits is transformer isolated. Too many consoles provide "splits" that are essentially just Y-cables. What this means is that you're essentially connecting multiple systems together.

What this does is, at the very least, changes the impedance seen by the mic which, as a result, affects the mic's frequency response seen by all three consoles attached to that preamp.

For a FOH/MON rig, that frequency response tradeoff would probably be such a minimal concern that it is truly in the noise. However from the live broadcast or recording perspective, that can have more of an effect.

At most, it could allow a grounding problem from one system to be fully reflected into the second system.

Either way, a noble idea, but the only way to do it would be having a transformer on each of the 2 splits with the fixed input to provide standard phantom.

If you're going to need a split, isolation is the key, no doubt about it.

It sounds like the system is somewhere in between the Y cable and a proper split. As long as you just use the Midas splits the mic will always see the same impedance as the output sounds like it is being pulled after the preamp stage. You never have to worry about two boards trying to feed phantom power to the mic's and each other. Yes, you could have a mic that has three different gain structures depending on which preamp you're working with. My guess is that would depend on the boards software. I've never played in the rarified air at that level so I haven't got a clue. However grounding issues will still be passed along on the non-transformered output.

A curious decision given the $$$$ for that rig.

[Jason Phair]

Definitely looked like a rep list.


I didn't see the EAW desk on there though, and I've heard some really good things about that.

[micguy]

Uh, guys - this is a digital console. I'm guessing the mic pre's are all in one stage box, and what goes from there to each console is "numbers" - after the A/D's.

Yamaha PM1D's are like this, except they share one preamp, and one A/D. That can lead to bickering between FOH, MON's, and broadcast folks as to what the gain should be on an input.

Midas has simple avoided that bickering by providing 3 pre's and A/D per channel - in the same box. So, no transformer split needed, and no issues with hum - all the analog stuff is in one box. From there, it's just numbers to the control surfaces.

[pounce]

ok, i posted in the wrong thread earlier.

today at my venue it's a digidesign venue d - show console, plus a little PTle setup to track the show (11 tracks) for whatever they do with the recordings.

i've only eyeballed it during soundcheck and such. for the good, i could mix on it today - so it's logical. i can't say if i'd prefer to have it as a FOH board or not. the interface is decent, and it doesn't hurt if you've used pro tools before just to be familar with stuff like the plug ins that you can put onto the channels. they are using some joe meek plug ins tonight. so i dunno, there is a thing or two i'd borrow from their interface and use on the dm2000/studio manager.