Examples of excellent recorded distorted guitars (from hell)

[freepatriot]

First, my apologies if this has already been asked for and provided elsewhere. If so, I can't find it.

I could read the technical (and rambling) DGFH thread all year and listen to the recorded missives until my iPod batteries die, but still never get a really good description, empirically, of what constitutes "ideal" distorted guitar tone.

(and I know that that question is probably the holy grail)

I can roll around in a chair, twine in hand, hearing all kinds of colors in the sound, but which are pretty and which are ... ugly?

I can play with every single eq in the world, see all the changes, but how does one know what is a good sound and what is not?

I know, I know, it's subjective. It's up to the listener. What is really needed is a frame of reference... a catalog of agreed-upon recordings of guitar sounds that are "right" and maybe some examples of what sounds didn't really cut the mustard.

With the caveat in place that all opinions are exactly that, and one man's garbage is another man's gold.

Which leads me to the title of this thread, and hopefully the point: if a few folks "in the know" could mention by name a few recordings that they think really got the distorted guitar sound down right, it would help to build that frame of reference.

I know that Slippy has mentioned in the past some Deep Purple sounds, the guitar sounds in some Zep tunes (the riffy ones like Heartbreaker). I am hoping some folks would be willing to do that.. throw out some names of songs where the recorded distorted guitar sounds are on target.

I guess I'm just trying to get a frame of reference to assist in future comparisons. A gridwork. I'm not asking you guys to make up my opinions for me, but you know, what guitar sounds really stir your martini?

Scotty

[freepatriot]

Come on, what nobody will go first?

Ok personally I think Carlos Santana's guitar sounds were recorded amazingly, esp. way early on.

How's that for a starting point?

[dwoz]

Its a little "old school"...but DEVO threw down some pretty serious "core" guitar tones...


dwoz

[Tim Armstrong]

Come on, what nobody will go first?

Ok personally I think Carlos Santana's guitar sounds were recorded amazingly, esp. way early on.

How's that for a starting point?

I think Carlos sounded great before he fell prey to the Mesa Boogie virus!

Cheers, Tim

[freepatriot]

I think Carlos sounded great before he fell prey to the Mesa Boogie virus!

Cheers, Tim

Is that what he uses to get that modern sound on that Supernatural song? I did not know that.

I was thinking of the Oye Como Va sound.

How about the guitar solo in Cream's Crossroads>? And that was live. I like the sound of that guitar solo. Not just the playing - everyone looks at that - I mean the tone.

How about Mississippi Queen? Is that too over-the-top tone-wise?

[Brendo]

Santana now uses PRS -> Boogie like everyone else.

Probably uses other stuff in the studio...

[Slipperman]

Cool is what FITS and ENDURES.

It's still mostly in the "hands of the player".

The 'Deep Purple' sound I mentioned over at GS was supposed to illustrate this in a humorous fashion. The "A200" lead tone is IN FACT DREADFUL.

It's also perfect.

As far as rhythm tones. It's endless and once again, not only wholly subjective, but massively influenced by what surrounds it. Thin Lizzy's guitar sound on 'waiting for an alibi' is NOT gonnna sound so great with a much bigger, more 'modern' drum sound.

Context.

Gotta flee.



SM.

[Molly's Lips]

Wait, do you want to talk about guitar sounds? Or recordings of guitar sounds? Because either way you're fucked...I think.

[freepatriot]

[QUOTE=Slipperman;14888]The 'Deep Purple' sound I mentioned over at GS was supposed to illustrate this in a humorous fashion. The "A200" lead tone is IN FACT DREADFUL.UOTE]

Thanks for clarifying. I am sometimes pretty slow on the uptake where sarcasm is concerned, especially in written form. :very happy:

[freepatriot]

Wait, do you want to talk about guitar sounds? Or recordings of guitar sounds? Because either way you're fucked...I think.


I know. We have to spend eight weeks on the kik drum first, right?

:lol:

[myrtlebacker]

How about trying the simple.

Get a guitar, get an amp. Play a riff you like. Record. Play back. Does it sound as you expected ? Are you disappointed, or pleasantly surprised (from the recording, not your musical greatness :very happy:) ?

Use the massive knowledge bestowed upon us my Mr. Hate^h^h^h^hLove ? :Wink: to try to

... get closer to the original sound
... do better than the live sound

If you like it and maybe even some of your listeners like it, it is good, regardless of ALL the other guitar sounds ever recorded.

[freepatriot]

How about trying the simple.

Get a guitar, get an amp. Play a riff you like. Record. Play back. Does it sound as you expected ? Are you disappointed, or pleasantly surprised (from the recording, not your musical greatness :very happy:) ?

Use the massive knowledge bestowed upon us my Mr. Hate^h^h^h^hLove ? :Wink: to try to

... get closer to the original sound
... do better than the live sound

If you like it and maybe even some of your listeners like it, it is good, regardless of ALL the other guitar sounds ever recorded.




I hear ya. I agree with ya. I just thought it would be fun to hear what some other folks think of as "oh, they nailed the guitar sound in that song"

I think what Slippy said about the importance of the sound being right for the context of the rest of the song nailed it.

I could get a guitar, get an amp. Play a riff, record, listen.... and the important thing would not be which tone I ended up getting, but how it would fit into the rest of a song and whether it was right for a given song.

I guess.

[freepatriot]

I knew from the outset that I was asking a question where there was no simple, "correct" answer.

If it was as simple as "Plug a les paul into a plexi, turn the knobs to "X" and play", then everyone would be doing it.

I like Slippys point in the missives that the guitar tone is a product of everything between and including the pick and the speaker. I would back that up to the hands and end at the eardrum. Everything between my hands and your eardrum comprise the tone, right?

And the kik drum.

;)

[otek]

I like Slippys point in the missives that the guitar tone is a product of everything between and including the pick and the speaker.

As well as the drum sound, the bass sound, the keyboards, vocals, the song and arrangement.

It's like Slippy says: context. You track a couple of distorted guitars and you love the sound. You then retrack the bass, and suddenly the guitars sound completely different.

It's kind of like one of those color perception tests where you could have sworn that swatch was green, but next to that other swatch, it appears blue.

[AxeSlash]

DISCLAIMER: I'm a metal guy at heart. And I have some decided opinions about what I like in a distorted guitar sound. Some, possibly even most, may disagree, but hey, you know that right? In my opinion it's all personal taste, but stuff that I think is in the ballpark (or even defines the boundaries of said ballpark) includes the following albums:

For heaviness:
Testament - "The Gathering". The holy grail when it comes to heaviness.
Nevermore - "Dead Heart In A Dead World". Same mixer, different sound, different style, still good.
Cannibal Corpse - "Bloodthirst". One of the few pure death metal albums that I like the sound of.
Machine Head - "Burn My Eyes". Forget anything else they've done.
Arch Enemy - "Burning Bridges". The album that started my forays into seeking a better guitar sound.

For 'fitting' the style:
Dew Scented - "Inwards" and also "Impact". Possibly the loudest albums I have heard. Pretty certain they're clipped, but for the amount of agression on display, damn near perfect. Not 'heavy' per se, just pure aggression.
Opeth - "Blackwater Park". There's a lot of different sounds floating around on this album, but they all fit. Versatile as hell, yet cohesive.
In Flames - "Colony". I don't like IF's recent stuff, but the guitar sound on this is pretty good (if a little harsh in places).
Pungent Stench - "Masters Of Moral, Servants Of Sin". A weird sounding album, but makes a 'middy' guitar sound work in a metal context.
Vader - "Litany". Ordinarily, this sits in the 'mud' category, but for some reason it works here.
The Haunted - "The Haunted Made Me Do It". Somehow they managed to get an amazingly hefty guitar sound to sound VERY natural.
Emperor - "Equilibrium IX". I'd normally compare this sound to a can of coke being shaken up and then opened while a herd of Rhinoceros charge across the Serengeti (sp?), but here it works.
Aborted - "Engineering The Dead". FAR better sounding than the albums that followed it, you could actually hear what they were playing on this, rather than the Mesa Mudfest that followed. A strange sounding album when compared to anything else in the genre, but still sounds awesome.
Death - "Symbolic". What can I say, I bought the same amp as Chuck Schuldiner (RIP) used because of this album. The lead sound ain't amazing, but the rest is spot on.

Guitar sounds that everyone seems to love that I hate (no offence meant to anyone here who had a hand in recording these):
Anything by Bolt Thrower. Mud City.
Anything pre-"Demonic" by Testament. If you can actually hear the guitars.
Anything by At The Gates. Even Slaughter Of The Soul. Just didn't fit.
Any early Cannibal Corpse. Absolute cack sound. Garage-tastic.
Most early death metal, in fact.
And controversially, most of Carcass' albums. I just dislike the lack of pick attack.


For less heavy stuff:

Steve Vai; mainly his main lead sound. I don't particularly like his rhythm sounds.
Mark Knopfler; almost anything this man plays through sounds good. Someone said it's all in the fingers; they're right when it comes to lowish gain sounds.
Dust Junkys; probably unheard of outside the UK, but still their one album "Done and Dusted" had a great guitar sound...bits of it kinda sounded like what Hendrix might if he was still about today.
The Cult - Beyond Good And Evil; another one that would normally be filed under 'mud', but works here.
The Cult - Sonic Temple. Effect-tastic, yet not overbearingly in my opinion.
Status Quo - whatever album "Backwater" is off, again a slightly 'weird' sound that works well.
Thin Lizzy - SM has already mentioned them and I'm inclined to agree. "Don't Believe A Word" being a case in point.

IN MY OPINION. :very happy:


I guess that gives you a pretty accurate picture of what I like to hear. Generally speaking, 'meat' is the word...balanced against clarity. Too much of one without the other is a waste of time when it comes to metal in my opinion. And then you gotta balance the outcome of that against whatever the hell else is going on in your mix. Unless you wanna dig yourself into the hole of mixing it around the guitars (which I have made the mistake of doing many times, and continue to do regularly. Hey, I'm a guitarist, I can't help it!)

A good thing to consider though is this: take any one of the above mentioned guitar sounds straight out the album and plonk it into another one of the albums mentioned, and it will most likely sound shit. Yet in it's own place it will sound the Dog's.

At the end of the day there's also this 'mix trend' thing to consider. What you might think is a fucking GREAT sound might sound like cock and balls to the average punter who is used to hearing whatever tripe is being broadcast on radio at the time.

Case in point: in the UK at the moment we have all these rock bands with really twangy 'orrible clean guitar sounds that I HATE with a passion...yet I've met guys who play this stuff that consider it to be the holy grail. They'd kill for that sound. Go figure.

My favourite phrase at the mo is "Horses For Courses", and it's true. What you need from a guitar sound depends massively on what the band have written first and foremost, and then secondly on what the hell else is gonna be fighting with it for mix space. And then...I could compile a list of stuff to consider but I only have one lifetime.

I hope that made some sort of sense.

[myrtlebacker]

I could get a guitar, get an amp. Play a riff, record, listen.... and the important thing would not be which tone I ended up getting, but how it would fit into the rest of a song and whether it was right for a given song.


Let me clarify, what I wrote and why I wrote it, likely I am just being redundant here.... anyway...

Since this is a forum about recording and not playing, I suspect you likely overestimate the degree of change that can be done "after the fact". I know quite a few bands of Axemans list. In my opinion, that, what the listener would likely define as the "guitar sound", is predominantly generated by the guitar/player/amp combination of said band.

So AFAIK there is no EQ setting or plugin (well there is GuitarRig... )) combination to get the Machinehead sound out of Joe Schmoe and his Stratocaster, so I just don't see how a list of reference records can be of much use for recording, it might be good for talking about recording, but that wasn't the drift of your thread start, as I understood it.

For the Axeman list to be of use - maybe I am wrong - one would want to play and record "Davidian" from Machinehead and try to nail the sound. That way one would learn the tools and the pitfalls. Afterwards you could claim, you could nail that sound (with the right player :)). But most of the effort is going to be before the recording. That's the business of the guitar player really. With respect to recording, basically ANY guitar sound would be interesting to record and tweak (see previous post) to learn the ins and outs of your tools.


Personally I think the guitar sound of Van Halen is unmatched.

[otek]

In my opinion, that, what the listener would likely define as the "guitar sound", is predominantly generated by the guitar/player/amp combination of said band.

...And the context.

Sorry guys. I'll come back to repeat that litania until someone gets my ass banned.

I cannot emphasize strongly enough how much of a bearing the other elements of the song, ranging from the actual composition to individual instrument sounds, have on the way we perceive the guitar sounds. Because so much of our perception of sound is determined by the milieu in which our sound is set. Sometimes you need to change other instruments in order to get the guitars to sound a certain way.


Here's but a few of my pet distorted guitar "contexts" (off the top of my head & in no particular order):


King's X, Dogman

Deep Purple, Who Do We Think We Are

Van Halen, Fair Warning

Metallica, Metallica

Thin Lizzy, Renegade (yep, Slippy started a new trend here :D )

AC/DC, Back In Black

Pantera, Vulgar Display Of Power

Nicklebag, 12 Hits And A Bump



....And, here are a couple of lovely orchestrations using (among other things) distorted guitar:

Steve Vai, Passion And Warfare

Billy Idol, Rebel Yell

Steve Tibbetts, Yr

Adrian Belew, Desire Caught By The Tail

[freepatriot]

Thanks for going out on a limb, AxeSlash. I don't know many bands on that list, but at least you tried ;) I'm sure everyone else will know that stuff and get a good impression of what you like to hear.

myrtlebacker, I'm not sure what the drift of my original post was to be :lol: :D Van Halen's first few albums were probably some of the very first heavy rock I actually started paying attention to, so the sound of that stuff (esp. VHII, women and children first, mean streets) will always make me go "yeah!".

I've been listening a lot lately to the Bluesbreakers (Beano) album and, although those sounds are totally out of fashion, I still enjoy the tones greatly. I guess it's hard to seperate tone and sentimentality, at least I have a hard time with it.

Otek, you can talk about context all year and I won't complain :) Last night at rehearsal, I saw the keyboard player fiddling with his EQ and I asked him what he was trying to fix. He said his keys sound "real midrangey". I said he was going to regret cutting those mids once the drums and bass kicks in. He was shaping his keyboards sound (Korg kbd playing pseudo Hammond sounds) based on the way it sounded by himself. My advice to him was to wait until the band was all playing together before judging how his keys were sounding. I think this goes back to Otek's litany (although it was in the context of live mix instead of recorded mix, I think the principle still applies, right?)

Scotty

[AxeSlash]

I think I agree with everything Otek said there bar the Van Halen thing...but I won't go into a rant about Van Halen or we'll be here for decades.

I'd forgotten about Who Do We Think We Are, and agreed: awesome sound. In my opinion Made In Japan is pretty damned good for a live sound as well...it has it's problems, but it fits.

Vulgar Display is a good example of a guitar sound that should sound cack but doesn't. The vocals however are a different matter...I've heard them absolutely vanish on some systems, and be in yer face on others.

[Jason Phair]

These lists of "great guitar sound albums/songs" are actually useful.


Not for answering the original question specifically, but for pointing out what our Swedish compadre has been harping on. CONTEXT.


Every one listed is a great guitar tone. And yet, they're all totally completely different!

Ever notice how in the original missives, SM didn't actually comment on "do this and this to the amp to get a great sound going"? No, it's "get the kid's sound in the room, and work from there." THAT is what is important. If you're the musician, get a tone you like. If not, get the one the kid likes, and find what's pleasing, evocative, and supportive of the overall sonic theme.


THIS is the constant theme in all these missives, narratives, and long-winded expositions. You're not being taught how to build a house, he's showing you how to use the various tools with which one can build a house.

[AxeSlash]

Oh and something I'd like to add that people may or may not find relevant: great sounds for recording can suck ass live.

Mid-scooped saturated-to-fuck boogies might sound great in the studio, but put it next to a live kit and you'll be fighting to hear what the hell you're playing without destroying your ears (and possibly your cab).

[OzNimbus]

In Flames: "Clayman"
At the Gates: "Slaughter of the Soul"
C.O.C. : "Blind"
Carcass: "Heartwork" (fuck yeah!)
Nevermore: "This Godless Endeavour" (or pretty much anything Andy Sneap is doing these days.)

-0z-

[preben]

Thin Lizzy are one of the reasons I ended up playing electric guitar and it's great that their profile seems to be on the up.

Great twinned guitars that never suffer from the Digitech Harmonizer Syndrom - not even on Bad Reputation where it's mostly Scott Gorham. Great lyrics - cool for the boys and soft for the ladies - and WHAT a voice..!! Amazing what a bit of asthma will let you get away with. And the tightest trousers in the business. 'Ave it!

The intro to Chinatown still sounds absolutely fantastic to me - overdrive and sustain and hardly any fizz (I'm showing my age here - fizz is apparently where it's at these days).

Funny that SM mentions the drummer. Lizzy is such a funny band in many ways. Went through quite a number of different guitarists (especially on the left hand Robertson/Moore/White/Sykes side of the stage) and still sounded totally like Lizzy no matter what. Take the drummer Brian Downey out (the concert video from Sydney is a great example) and it all falls apart. Sum of the parts.

[BoogieWithStu]

Regarding Lizzy Guitars,
I share all your thoughts. Perhaps in "Chinatown" they were going for that Bob Seger American sound, like "Her Strut" or whatever it's called.

My fave twin guitar thing is "The Pressure Will Blow" from Renegade - very nice tones all around.

Heard the RockPalast Show they did before Renegade was released - they had Snowy White. Both guitars sounded like garbage. Scoot was using some strange cabs with an aluminum dome on the core, and what looked like Music Man heads. Snowy was using some Yamaha amps - perhaps it was a raw board mix.

In the Sydney video, the sound in general was crap, but you have to agree, Gary moore stole the show.

Anyhow, good to see some Lizzy Bits here. All the best!

Fave guitar sounds: (a short sampling)

Alex Lifeson: lead and clean guitars in 'Limelight'
Randy Rhoads: S.A.T.O., Diary Of A Madman
Ty Tabor (King's X): Faith Hope Love Album
Eddie Van Halen: Dirty Movies
Mark Knopfler: Sultans of Swing
Eric Johnson: Almost everything he's played.




Thin Lizzy are one of the reasons I ended up playing electric guitar and it's great that their profile seems to be on the up.

Great twinned guitars that never suffer from the Digitech Harmonizer Syndrom - not even on Bad Reputation where it's mostly Scott Gorham. Great lyrics - cool for the boys and soft for the ladies - and WHAT a voice..!! Amazing what a bit of asthma will let you get away with. And the tightest trousers in the business. 'Ave it!

The intro to Chinatown still sounds absolutely fantastic to me - overdrive and sustain and hardly any fizz (I'm showing my age here - fizz is apparently where it's at these days).

Funny that SM mentions the drummer. Lizzy is such a funny band in many ways. Went through quite a number of different guitarists (especially on the left hand Robertson/Moore/White/Sykes side of the stage) and still sounded totally like Lizzy no matter what. Take the drummer Brian Downey out (the concert video from Sydney is a great example) and it all falls apart. Sum of the parts.

[dnafe]

Might have been mentioned before but "Won't Get Fooled Again" immediately comes to mind.

[AxeSlash]

Mark Knopfler: Sultans of Swing
Eric Joh

Yes...but I'd say Knopfler's best is probably whatever the hell he uses on the Brothers In Arms track - one of those tones that goes from clean as a whistle to dirt-tastic smoother than anything else I've heard. Absolute perfection for that track, I doubt it coulda been done better.

[otek]

I think I agree with everything Otek said there bar the Van Halen thing...but I won't go into a rant about Van Halen or we'll be here for decades.

I'm not gonna go into something as infantile as arguing matters of taste, but you have to admit that there are few players who have had so much impact on the sound of a generation as Van Halen.

I am also amazed at the amount of weight they manage to achieve with the guitar/bass interplay, without overdubbing so much as once.

Now if the style of music doesn't appeal to everyone, that I can understand. But I was in Stockholm in 1984 on Monsters Of Rock, and I swear, when Van Halen stormed the stage with the Unchained riff, I thought I was gonna shit my pants.

In my opinion Made In Japan is pretty damned good for a live sound as well...it has it's problems, but it fits.

Thank you for mentioning what is in all probably one of the best, if not THE best, live recording of a rock band EVER.

[ajcamlet]

Someone mentioned alex lifeson. i have to say that i heard some of the stuff they did in the 70's and was shocked at how good his guitar sounds used to be.....

[GeeWhoLeeo]

yes, knopfler rules
and that sound in Brothers in Arms is like the guitar is crying.

ola you're right, van halen defined a sound...it's true, but imho he never found a way out of the 80s.:lol:


as for more distorded sounds, i find that the most influential record of the last 15 years is 'Mellon collie and infinite sadness' by Smashing Pumpkins.
it's a mix of walls of guitars and clean sounds, quite impresive.
kids are still asking for that sound today!

[otek]

Someone mentioned alex lifeson. i have to say that i heard some of the stuff they did in the 70's and was shocked at how good his guitar sounds used to be.....

Lifeson was one of the biggest influences on my own guitar playing.

And when it came to integrate FX and creative sound design into textures, he was (and is) Da Man.

[otek]

ola you're right, van halen defined a sound...it's true, but imho he never found a way out of the 80s.:lol:

Let me just take this moment of opportunity to dispense a (mercifully brief) rant about the "80's allergy" that's been so prevalent over the past 10 years or so.

(and no, GeeWhoLeeo, I am not harping on you here! :D )

My theory is, we mainly complain about the 80's because of the style of production and sounds. The songwriting was there, just as it was in the previous decades, albeit perhaps not as profoundly as in the 60's. Though great material was indubitably written.

Our main beef, at least if I am to believe a few youngsters I've grilled on the subject, is that once you sort out the dorky outfits and the migraine-inducing color schemes, what gets on people's nerves is the ubiquitous over-usage of certain technological gadgets, such as the Rockman, or the gate reverb - in other words, a direct-recording interface for guitar, and a digital sound enhancer.




Sound familiar?




I would call it a very near fachsimile of what we have today - with the Pod(another direct-recording interface for guitar), and Autotune (another digital sound enhancer of sorts) - except, with some far more memorable songwriting going on.

If you are looking for a time which will go down as the absolute shitstain of music history - congratulations, folks. You're living in it.


Cheers,

otek

[volthause]

If you are looking for a time which will go down as the absolute shitstain of music history - congratulations, folks. You're living in it.


HAHAHA!!!! Fucking classic. New sig for me!

:lol:

[Zoesch]

Pretty much every Voivod record since Dimension Hatross onwards featured an absolutely amazing guitar sound, textured, not too much pick but with a well defined attack, awesome distortion (I always found it harder to distort guitar players who play high up in the neck, Piggy managed to have that sound nailed down) and most of all, a sound that always went along with the bass and the drums.

Perfect balance to achieve a sound that was equal parts cold, mechanical and rocking.

[GeeWhoLeeo]

ok, this is not the most inspiring time for music.. especially for what it's defined mainstream pop.
and i think Ola nailed it about the style of production being the cuplrit..

i might be wrong but, to me the 80s are the years of the japanese imitations: in the 70s people used Fender,Gibson,Rickembacker...
in the 80s all of a sudden they all started to use japanese guitars, and the sound suffered A LOT!
aaaaaaarggggggh:Mad:

[otek]

i might be wrong but, to me the 80s are the years of the japanese imitations: in the 70s people used Fender,Gibson,Rickembacker...
in the 80s all of a sudden they all started to use japanese guitars, and the sound suffered A LOT!

I think that part of the reason is what Slipperman said about Rock'n'Roll being (and I hope I am quoting him correctly) "the music of endearment" - for years and years, people are hearing a certain guitar being played through a certain amp, recorded on a very familiar signal chain - people had been using Fenders, Gibsons and Rickenbackers almost exclusively for 25 years already at that point.

Suddenly, all that changes, and in a quest for new sounds, we are suddenly exposed to Jackson and Kramer through-necks, digital chorus and reverb, Rockmans, SSL consoles, and other assorted gadgetry.

Some of these changes were brought about over an extended period of time, of course. The 70s was also a time of experimentation in guitar technology, but it was almost like the imperfectness and simplicity rendered more listenable sounds. I don't think anyone today would prefer the chorus from a Roland GP-8 to that of an Electro-Harmonix Clone Theory.

And then again, maybe..... :Roll eyes:

[Mixerpuppet]

If you are looking for a time which will go down as the absolute shitstain of music history - congratulations, folks. You're living in it.


Cheers,

otek

While I find this quite humorous...

I don't believe it's true...

I think were just ramping up to the place...

In one way the guitar execsses of the 80's due to people like EVH and RR are now being expressed via the super-divas and the autotune. If you look at the average DAW users plug-in investment and OCD level of control over not just a single track but every single subdivision of the quarter note of that track, that gets automated with at least 5 different eq's, 9 compressors etc...

It's going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better.

To me the late 80's and early 90's is where it pinnacled...

IMO, if people want to get a decent sweep of distorted guitars just listen to Ozzy. From Black Sabbath through Zakk wild the variation is wide but profound.


Crazy Train and Perry Mason... Defines context to me not only musically but in the context of timelessness.

heh heh

[Jason Phair]

'taint the heavy stuff, but I'd like to say that David Gilmour wishes and dreams and prays that he could have Stephen Rothery's tone.

[Jason Phair]

IMO, if people want to get a decent sweep of distorted guitars just listen to Ozzy. From Black Sabbath through Zakk wild the variation is wide but profound.


Crazy Train and Perry Mason... Defines context to me not only musically but in the context of timelessness.

heh heh



Leading this slightly offtopic, I couldn't help but laugh at a self-proclaimed "metal expert" recently. We were listening to "Bark at the Moon" and he said that "only Randy Rhoades could've written something like this"


Uhh...yeah. :Uh oh:

[Buzzgrowl]

AC/DC - Highway to Hell
Led Zeppelin - In My Time of Dying
(Bowie) Mick Ronson - She Shook Me Cold
Alice in Chains - Them Bones
Soundgarden - Outshined

[Zoesch]

Anthrax members themselves might've hated the production but for me Among The Living has some of the best distorted guitar sounds of the 80's (Part hardcore, part metal, 100% kickass)

And one of those forgotten treasures... Forbidden-Twisted Into Form, then again, the players are Craig Locicero and Tim Calvert, both knew how to get a kickass sound.

[Mixerpuppet]

Leading this slightly offtopic, I couldn't help but laugh at a self-proclaimed "metal expert" recently. We were listening to "Bark at the Moon" and he said that "only Randy Rhoades could've written something like this"


Uhh...yeah. :Uh oh:

A comment like that to the wrong guitarist might get the "metal expert" a butt kicking supreme... or at least a Les Paul across the face (strings up position).


back on topic...


The band Santuary had a great distorted guitar sound for the song "Battle Angels" on thier first record. I can't find a CD of it since I lost the cassette....

[myrtlebacker]

How about the opposite ? Great distorted guitar sound but piss poor recording ?

I open with

"Yngwie Malmsteen - Marching Out"

[Zoesch]

The band Santuary had a great distorted guitar sound for the song "Battle Angels" on thier first record. I can't find a CD of it since I lost the cassette....

Sanctuary had quite the kickass guitar tone, despite Dave Mustaine's pedestrian production... that tone has survived to this day on the Nevermore recordings.

[Jason Phair]

that tone has survived to this day on the Nevermore recordings.


I still can't believe they use PODs for that shit.

Unreal.

[Mixerpuppet]

Sanctuary had quite the kickass guitar tone, despite Dave Mustaine's pedestrian production... that tone has survived to this day on the Nevermore recordings.

Makes me wonder who owns the tone since both guitarists, Lenny and sean, both were the reason Sanctuary became Nevermore... Terry Date maybe?

Terry Date seemed to have a driving force for the sound of alot of bands... and Sanctuary predated most of the late 80's bands he helped carve the guitars tones for...

[Zoesch]

Well, I'm not anti-POD as I used to be, definitely you have to tweak the bastards to death in order to get a good sound out of them but POD+Guitar Rig seems to give out pretty good sounds for what it is.

Mixerpuppet, maybe Terry Date is in part responsible for the tone although a lot of bay area, oregon and seattle bands tended to have that particular guitar tone.

The funny thing is that you can't actually make out the fact that those album were recorded with somewhat tinny sounding Ibanez, Kramer or Jackson guitars as it was the norm back then.

[Molly's Lips]

Makes me wonder who owns the tone since both guitarists, Lenny and sean, both were the reason Sanctuary became Nevermore... Terry Date maybe?

Terry Date seemed to have a driving force for the sound of alot of bands... and Sanctuary predated most of the late 80's bands he helped carve the guitars tones for...
Since you mentioned Terry Date...I'm gonna mention Deftones -around the fur. The album may be brickwalled to hell, but the guitar sounds drive the record...and have a weird quality to them that I can't quite put my finger on...massive...almost like a chorus effect but not...I dunno, listen to "Be Quite and Drive (Far Away)" and you'll know what I'm talking about.

[Dion Stewart]

....And, here are a couple of lovely orchestrations using (among other things) distorted guitar:

Steve Vai, Passion And Warfare

Billy Idol, Rebel Yell

Steve Tibbetts, Yr

Adrian Belew, Desire Caught By The Tail


Great stuff here Otek - especially the Tibbetts. I'm a huge fan of his work. He gets amazing tones and textures out of his guitar. Here are some of his own comments about another of his albums, A Man About a Horse (source: http://www.frammis.com/bio_horse2002.htm)

Recording and Mixing

I used my old analog 16-track for a lot of the tracks, and dubbed some things to Digital Performer, a computer music program.

I had the time to mix it and mix it, due to the flexibility of the computer program. There's a trade-off in doing that. I got the beautiful and detailed mix I wanted, but there was none of the tension, release, and surprise that comes from the old way of mixing. The old way: you would set up the board, stick little notes and markers everywhere, and go for it. When you get a good mix that way there are mistakes, but it has a wild and fresh feeling. The mix is part of the performance.

I tried to mix with a reference, as I always do. A stereo reference test. Year ago Marc and I set up a turntable and performed A/B tests between "Physical Graffiti" and our in-progress mix of "Exploded View" just for fun. We hauled in two huge JBL speakers we called the "butts" because the tweeter was deep in the speaker with two ass-like curves coming out, dispersing the sound. It was an enjoyable mix, and it worked out well.

This time I used "Lateralus" by Tool and "Solid Ether" by Molvaer (on ECM, actually) as references. I like the sound of both of those CDs.

But I couldn't seem to get the EQ right on this one. On most CDs these days the high end is incredibly bright and the overall level (especially on the Tool CD) is extremely compressed. I'd switch back and forth between the CDs and the mix, Tool/Horse, Ether/Horse/Tool/Horse, and it always sounded like mine was swaddled in muslin. What to do? The shroud of Turin, I couldn't get it off the speakers. I tried a lot of things, but all of them just seemed to make the music sound brassy and coarse. Not right. I called Lee Townsend, an old friend and ex-ECM worker and asked him what he did. Did he make his mixes sound real bright? He said, "Don't fall for that--don't crank up the treble." So I left it mostly as it was. I left it for the mastering engineer to sort out.

I'd Change

What would I change? I wish I had not been so fascinated with the cut-and-paste compositional possibilities of the computer program. Sometimes the music became more of a technical and visual challenge that an audial one. I was seduced by the process. I wish I had spent more time in basic appraisal of the composition before I went deep into the overdubbing and mixing. Sometimes elements that might not fit together naturally were welded to each other. A donkey's head on a cow. A cat in a dog suit. Deer with claws.

The mix is very cool.



Interesting stuff.

Dion

[otek]

Thanks for that post, Dion.

Tibbetts has been a hero for me ever since I bought Yr back in 1988. That, and the other albums on my list, pretty much defined my early understanding of guitar arrangements in the 80's.

You can totally hear Tibbetts's approach to mixing on Yr... the 16-track analog machine, the extremely busy manual fader-riding, the paucity of heavy effects (that came later - when this album was originally recorded, back in 1979, Tibbetts still relied on the sound of the room for most of his stuff.

Another great part is the "chaos" factor - a little feedback whine morphs into a chord, the chord gets a splash of chorus, some random drum in the percussion section simultanelously manages to double a little creaking sound from the acoustic guitar.... whatever. I don't believe it was thought out, he just picked up on those little details and ran with them in the moment. You can hear the click track way, way in the background on some things, and birds singing on at least one tune. It's organic, in that it's even giving away details about the recording process at times.


A very exciting album to listen to.



otek

[Zoesch]

How can I always forget this record... the sludgiest guitars ever recorded... they ooze analog goodness.

Neurosis-Times of Grace

[James Murphy]

DISCLAIMER: I'm a metal guy at heart. And I have some decided opinions about what I like in a distorted guitar sound. Some, possibly even most, may disagree, but hey, you know that right? In my opinion it's all personal taste, but stuff that I think is in the ballpark (or even defines the boundaries of said ballpark) includes the following albums:

For heaviness:
Testament - "The Gathering". The holy grail when it comes to heaviness.
Nevermore - "Dead Heart In A Dead World". Same mixer, different sound, different style, still good.
Cannibal Corpse - "Bloodthirst". One of the few pure death metal albums that I like the sound of.
Machine Head - "Burn My Eyes". Forget anything else they've done.
Arch Enemy - "Burning Bridges". The album that started my forays into seeking a better guitar sound.


Guitar sounds that everyone seems to love that I hate (no offence meant to anyone here who had a hand in recording these):
Anything by Bolt Thrower. Mud City.
Anything pre-"Demonic" by Testament. If you can actually hear the guitars.
Anything by At The Gates. Even Slaughter Of The Soul. Just didn't fit.
Any early Cannibal Corpse. Absolute cack sound. Garage-tastic.
Most early death metal, in fact.
And controversially, most of Carcass' albums. I just dislike the lack of pick attack.


i play on your number one album you love the guitar sound on and 3-5 of the ones you hate, depending on my interpretation of some of your criteria... and yes, The Gathering has the one of the best heavy guitar sounds ever... in fact most of my favorite heavy guitar tones are from albums from '99 onward... seems we agree on this point.... i don't include classic rock and metal in ths assesment... just metal/deathmeal/thrash.

[James Murphy]

I still can't believe they use PODs for that shit.

Unreal.
they dont.... i play a solo on the latest nevermore album and was at Sneap's studio for pretty much the entire production and there were no pods.. even DHIADW had more real amp tone than pod.... "nevermore records with pods" is really just a metal urban legend.

[Zoesch]

they dont.... i play a solo on the latest nevermore album and was at Sneap's studio for pretty much the entire production and there were no pods.. even DHIADW had more real amp tone than pod.... "nevermore records with pods" is really just a metal urban legend.

Interesting, I never heard that "Nevermore record with POD" line until here, I know that Meshuggah and Fear Factory are indeed heavy POD users (Still going through plenty of real amps and cabs) but the sound they are after is quite the opposite to a realistic sound.

[AxeSlash]

i play on your number one album you love the guitar sound on and 3-5 of the ones you hate, depending on my interpretation of some of your criteria...

No reflection on your playing, I just feel that when most of those "hated" (which is a bit of a strong word, it's purely a sound thing we're talking about here) albums were recorded (which is a while back now), those styles were still pretty "new" in terms of production, and as a result the guitar sound could have been somewhat better. Certainly with the really old Testament stuff it sounds like it's more of a recording/mixing issue than the amp tone itself. You can hear the compression eating away at it a LOT, too much in my opinion.

I think the "no mid = good" misconception was still pretty popular back then as well. I'm quite happy that bands and engineers alike are happy to search for heaviness in other forms than a massive chunk of a mid cut these days. Makes for a far better result I think.

[moaus]

for my money

doesn't get much better than ac/dc on highway to hell

the combination of mal's gretsch and angus's sg work fkn perfectly together

has anyone noticed on that record that - even though the guitars are pretty much Left and right - they dont seem to have a hole in the centre

i think - and this is only a theory - that angus's main sound is upfront however they have mal's distant mike on the same side but much lower and vice versa on the other side which sort of weaves them together

its something i want to try next time with my band (we use a similar setup being a gibson and a gretsch - both through old marshalls)

but again as said earlier - its a context thing - you cant get away with that kind of sound if the bass and drums aren't shouldering a lot of burden and also their use of open chord voicings which combined with the gretsch give them that zing sound - sorry cant describe it any better

hope this made sense.....

[ckerian]

Lifeson was one of the biggest influences on my own guitar playing.

And when it came to integrate FX and creative sound design into textures, he was (and is) Da Man.

I agree. As i was posting my "what multi-fx should i get thread. i was thinking that I want to sound like i am floating like the lead from limelight... just total space.

[hourglass]

Interesting, I never heard that "Nevermore record with POD" line until here, I know that Meshuggah and Fear Factory are indeed heavy POD users (Still going through plenty of real amps and cabs) but the sound they are after is quite the opposite to a realistic sound.

Right -Jeff & Tim (and the other rhythm guys who followed) were playing thru Pod Pro units for a few years for LIVE shows. When I talked to Jeff a few times about it he said they were fine for live work, but they wouldn't record with them. When I saw them in Dallas (after Gigantour on their way back to Seattle,) Jeff & Steve had Krank stacks on stage.

Ryan

[AxeSlash]

Just borrowed my Dad's copy of Mark Knopfler's "Golden Heart" album.

There's some fucking PHENOMENAL guitar sounds on this...I mean, man...words cannot express. Both acoustic and electric.

And the solo in "Vic And Ray"...wow.

I love how this guy can go from clean as a whistle to almost heavy just by picking harder (he fingerpicks everything), and still have it all fit into place perfectly. Fucking genius.

[brack]

I listened to metal and underground aggressive stuff through the 90s until about 95/96 when one of my best friends turned me on to the rest of the underground scene, that I passed over forever, like garage, a lot of indie, and stoner rock.

What stoner did was, IMO, mix metal with 70s riffs/tone. It's been a great ride, listening to a mix of what I grew up on, 70s classic rock, then becoming a metal and thrash freak (all black with white sneakers, anyone?).

So, here's my favorite stoner rock guitar tones:

Chrome Locust - S/T - Great in every way, but those guitars are just amazing.

El Caco - Viva - Great range of tones, lots of nice use of mild distortion and chorus, to heavy. (one of my fav albums of all time, but the rest of their stuff hasn't lived up to this one)

Fu Manchu - California Crossing - Fuzzzzzzz

Mystick Krewe of Clearlight - S/T - Great low mid fuzz. Love bands who add organ to guitars, they go so well together (Deep Purple).

The Sword - Age of Winters - Throaty chunky, AMAZING live as well as recorded.

Queens of the Stone Age - Rated R - Great range of tones from mellow chunky to heavy and vocal.

YOB - The Unreal Never Lived - To me, a great example of the perfect tone in context of the album. If you sample the sound out of context of the LENGTHY songs, it doesn't sound as good as when taken as a whole. In other words, listening to a 30 sec cut of this guitar sound you might think "ok, fuzzy, deep, got it, not what I'd put in a top 10 list", but in a car on a long drive, I keep turning this up until I'm banging my head against the steering wheel. Single notes and harmonics shine through the chords.

Honorable Mention:

Zen Guerrilla - Trance States in Tounges - messy, agressive, bluesy, and very tasty.

Atomic Bitchwax - II - Fuzzy and deep.