Wtf am I supposed to do with this?

[Cosmic Pig]

This has somehow landed in my lap. It's supposed to be a ten year anniversary tune for the Aboriginal day Festival in Vancouver here. A "We are the world" type tune. It's gonna be long because I have to fit in a few verses in native languages. That's all groovy. Ignore the mix. I'm just looking for production input at this point.

So far I turfed all the instrument parts and all the players. I'll be getting better players in for it if it's worth pursuing. I'm basically down to melody and chord pattern. My thinking is native drum intro with a short bit of chanting... maybe all spacey like ghosts in an ancient forest... Then come in with one guitar and vocal for the first verse overtop, then kick the band in for the chorus or second verse. Might work for the intro...

As for the rest of it... I can live with the lyrics, and the melody in the verses is okay. Don't dig the melody in the chorus but I have no idea what to do with it.

I'm thinking a stop and a build into a gang sing last few choruses.

Any ideas? Any Golden inspirations? I didn't write it but the dude said I can do whatever I want with it. I can change the chord pattern, melody or whatever.

Thanks fellers. I know it kinda blows. Maybe I should just run away.

Cos.

[dwoz]

Just make sure you find a spaniard who was taught english by a german to sing the main vocal.


There's got to be some Nez Perce or Shoshoni or even some Coquille somewhere near you...


This doesn't "scream native" at me. Kind of sounds more like amateur brit-pop. Kind of a slur, if you really think about it.

dwoz

[Cosmic Pig]

Thanks for the listen Dwoz. It's technically not a slur because it was written by a native, although irregardless of who wrote it I hear ya. I'm thinking majestic nature somethingerother and this ain't it.

So far I have Cree and Miqmaw singers and some native drummers ready to do something. Now all I need is something for them to do haha.

Cos.

[Cosmic Pig]

What, nothing salvageable? Sure you guys are all over the easy shit but a bit of a challenge and nobody has anything to say haha. All the fancy ass producers around here and not one (except Dwoz) with the nuts too say "Cos that's a pile of shit run away".

I miss the old days of articulately tearing tunes into shreds with glee.

Cos.

[seagate]

What about dropping the band altogether and building the vocal melody on some native drumming with some nice harmonies underneath.

Any other native instruments could serve as support for either the melody or the drumming.

You could vary the rythm from verse to verse to keep it interesting.


cheers
seagate

PS: I apologise for my earlier post, it was way out of line and should have never been posted, let alone thought of.

Again I apologise if I offended anyone...

[Cosmic Pig]

What about dropping the band altogether and building the vocal melody on some native drumming with some nice harmonies underneath.

Any other native instruments could serve as support for either the melody or the drumming.


There's something to think about for sure Seagate. Not many native instruments other than drums, but maybe that chorus melody wouldn't suck so much with some harmonies.

PS: I apologise for my earlier post, it was way out of line and should have never been posted, let alone thought of.

Umm... what'd I miss?

Cos.

[dwoz]

In one way, the notion that a native american would necessarily write music that "sounds native" is absurd...there's nothing at all that makes it so, besides some outdated stereotype.

What made me wonder though, is that this particular piece of music is being commissioned for a "heritage" or "tradition" festival...and no matter what culture is being celebrated, you'd automatically think that the music being used to promote it would have some "nod" toward tradition.


But a "who we are now, who we were then" kind of concept isn't such a difficult thing to imagine either. Perhaps some kind of early traditional instruments/figures that "morph" into a modern derivation...If you could find some shamans/storytellers (native american keepers of the oral traditions) and get them to give you some motifs, and discuss the meanings....then bring those motifs up into a "now" treatment...could be powerful.

dwoz

[seagate]

In one way, the notion that a native american would necessarily write music that "sounds native" is absurd...there's nothing at all that makes it so, besides some outdated stereotype.

stereotype perhaps, but purely from the music side of it I'd rather hear well played native music, however far removed it is from today, then some badly played modern song.

But your idea of a morph is a good one, just not with what we heard here...

sea

[st robert]

What, nothing salvageable? Sure you guys are all over the easy shit but a bit of a challenge and nobody has anything to say haha. All the fancy ass producers around here and not one (except Dwoz) with the nuts too say "Cos that's a pile of shit run away".

I miss the old days of articulately tearing tunes into shreds with glee.

Cos.
geez, i can't take a day off?

and i prefer "upwardly trailer-park" to "fancy ass", thank you.

ahem...

this is the most vile manifestation of vanilla-white pap i have heard since i can remember, even though i'm a heavy drinker. where is the sense that the singer gives one flying fuck about the subject matter? where's any sense of heritage or pride evident in this track? the guy who dumped this on you should be slapped around a bit for the general insult he levelled at everybody with this bullshit production, not just the people he wishes to honor (see above posts). at least he knew enough to give it to someone who has talent enough to rescue his sorry ass.

all that being said...

i think this is a worthy challenge, but it should be completely redone to the point that the original writer will get only lyric credits, if that.

your instincts are probably more in line with what the actual message of the song should be, but the subject matter is somewhat demanding of the listener so the original version here is all candy-ass pop since the writer doesn't seem convinced that the audience can handle anything except bland three chord milquetoast.

the lyrics are somewhat inspirational, and i like the wording of the chorus.

that's it.

tomorrow, if i got a few minutes, i'll think it through a bit better.

take your first post's instincts and run with them.


...as far away as you can, brother.

talk to ya soon...

rob

[MudCat]

But a "who we are now, who we were then" kind of concept isn't such a difficult thing to imagine either. Perhaps some kind of early traditional instruments/figures that "morph" into a modern derivation.........then bring those motifs up into a "now" treatment...could be powerful.

dwoz


Cos......I think Dwoz is dead on with this approach..... For the intro, I would use the chorus chords(which are good), but make them long and dreamy(new age-ish...and forgive me for that term)...no set percussion yet....with a soulful traditional solo vocal above them. Set it up that way, and THEN morph into the modern 'look at us now' version. The choruses will/should feel wecome each time they return after that.

My only other suggestion is the beat itself.....perhaps especially during the verses.....that 60's 'pop-pop.......pop' snare seems like it's out of place here. So you might consider some other beat options. Maybe listen to some loops, or whatever.

Good luck.... -mudcat

[st robert]

Cos......I think Dwoz is dead on with this approach..... For the intro, I would use the chorus chords(which are good), but make them long and dreamy(new age-ish...and forgive me for that term)...no set percussion yet....with a soulful traditional solo vocal above them. Set it up that way, and THEN morph into the modern 'look at us now' version. The choruses will/should feel wecome each time they return after that.

My only other suggestion is the beat itself.....perhaps especially during the verses.....that 60's 'pop-pop.......pop' snare seems like it's out of place here. So you might consider some other beat options. Maybe listen to some loops, or whatever.

Good luck.... -mudcat

yes.

+1

[Cosmic Pig]

Excellent suggestions! Thanks you guys.

Dwoz, most definitely the morph idea is the way to go. Good one. Maybe I can find an old native chant at the Library of Congress and morph that into a current chant, then into the tune...

St. Robert, yep the music needs to be completely rewritten. Trouble is I'm a producer who can't write, hence my position in the trailer park next to the Smithrite.

Mudcat, yep the drum beat is gone, as is the drummer. And I think thats the way to intro it too. The tricky part is making the payoff worth it with a good tune.

At first it was supposed to be just an engineering job which is why it sounds so bad, but they offered it to me and I figure it might get me some name points which might get me some business if I can nail it.

Thanks fellers. You've inspired me with the potential, now comes the hard part haha.

Cos.

[Mixerman]

This has somehow landed in my lap. It's supposed to be a ten year anniversary tune for the Aboriginal day Festival in Vancouver here. A "We are the world" type tune. It's gonna be long because I have to fit in a few verses in native languages. That's all groovy. Ignore the mix. I'm just looking for production input at this point.

So far I turfed all the instrument parts and all the players. I'll be getting better players in for it if it's worth pursuing. I'm basically down to melody and chord pattern. My thinking is native drum intro with a short bit of chanting... maybe all spacey like ghosts in an ancient forest... Then come in with one guitar and vocal for the first verse overtop, then kick the band in for the chorus or second verse. Might work for the intro...

As for the rest of it... I can live with the lyrics, and the melody in the verses is okay. Don't dig the melody in the chorus but I have no idea what to do with it.

I'm thinking a stop and a build into a gang sing last few choruses.

Any ideas? Any Golden inspirations? I didn't write it but the dude said I can do whatever I want with it. I can change the chord pattern, melody or whatever.

Thanks fellers. I know it kinda blows. Maybe I should just run away.

Cos.

Well, I think you're on the right track getting a bunch of native drums on this will help push it in the right direction.

You know, the song isn't great but it's not that bad either. I mean for what it's meant to be. But the one thing I have to say for it, it leaves you loads of room to do an interesing production.

I would consider changing that chorus a little. The first time she sings the chorus, she doesn't go up with the melody on the line "Hear the sound of the beating drum." You should go up on that line every time. It's critical.

The thing I would change about the chorus is the phrasing. It is so mickey mouse to sing rhy-he-thum and nay-ay-tion. Please make them a bit more natural in the phrasing.

If you come up with a good harmony, and maybe some response bgs in the chorus, I think you can do something pretty cool with this. The hardest part is getting past the demo. What I do for that, is I learn the melody on the piano, then I start to play with the harmony a bit. What I want to do is eradicate the current demo from my head, because the final product needs to be so radically different. I find that doing this allows me the opportunity to "hear" in my head what needs to happen.

Sorry to be so vague, but you need to arrive in a whole new place from what I'm listening to, and just to get to a place where I could give you some good ideas would take several hours of work. I don't have any quick magic bullets for you on this one. I do think it's an interesting project, if for no other reason the challenge of it.

Mixerman

[seagate]

snip...

What I do for that, is I learn the melody on the piano, then I start to play with the harmony a bit

snip


Or strip it back to the basic chord structure and take it from there...

[Cosmic Pig]

Thanks Mixerman! After screwing around with it for a few hours I've sorta come to the conclusion you're right, the chorus melody can be worked with if I work it with some harmonies and production.

I stripped it down and screwed with the melody and chords but nothing I came up with sounded any better. My trouble is I know it when I hear it, I just can't come up with it haha.

Thanks for the help y'all. It's helped with my focus a lot. I'll keep ya posted and probably be back for mix advice when I get it near finished.

Cos.