Sound stage protocol / Festivals

[bbkong]

Yeah, so I didn't read the handbook, but I did read the Bluejacket Manual.

Saw a production recently, many acts, one guy working the stage and monitors, some acts needed 12 mics, some needed only one, but this guy was determined to take any mics off the stage that weren't going to be used.

Not mute the channel, fold the stand and set it to the side, but unplug it and carry it away, leaving the cord on the floor, and adding to his own chore when the next act came up. 20+ acts. One song per.

Is that normal, or just dumb?

[EyreSpace]

Normal to keep tabs on yer mics; dumb to do the job by yourself!

[pounce]

bubba - i added the word "festival" to your thread title.

festival sound is a beast. it is a challenge for any soundman. a challenge in organization, mixing, and perserverence. festival days are long, and i assure you the soundguy job is more brutal than you could imagine. even bathroom breaks are tough, somehow folks making festival schedules don't take bathroom breaks, or food breaks into consideration.

that said, i did festival sound last saturday. 13 hours in a row, very very few breaks, and disorganized as all fuck. it came out pretty well, but i ran my ass off.

that said, how you deal with the mics is a BIG DEAL. normal procedure is set up the mixing board for a typical large band and leave a couple of extra channels near each instrument group to allow for changes. if you by some chance actually had stage plots and tech riders for all of the bands you would know for sure what the biggest act you had to set up was. a typical example for instance...

k
s
hh
t1
t2
ft
ohl
olr
empty
bass 1
bass 2
empty
gtr 1
gtr 2
gtr 3
empty
key1
key2
horn 1
horn 2
empty
vox 1
vox 2
vox 3
vox 4
vox 5

or something to that effect. (still hoping you've gotten some tech riders and know what you are in for and plan your input template accordingly)

just as the mixer inputs get set early in the day and you stick with those assignments all day, you relatedly use the same stagebox inputs for each particular instrument... therefore, stagebox input 1 will always the kick drum (presuming stagebox input 1 is the same as mixer channel 1). whoever is up on deck doing the changeovers will have the same chart as the mixer (or in this case it's the same person). Even though you may skip some inputs, each instrument will start in the lowest number input assigned for it's type. for instance, if there is only one bass DI used it will go to bass 1. if the drum kit only has two toms, use t1 and t2, skip t3 entirely, and keep moving up through the channels.

getting to bubba's specific question, what i have seen done the most by many many production companies is always the same thing. using the above logic and method, you pull unused mics on the stand with the cable off to one side of the stage where they are kept on stands. so you do pull the mic/stand/cable off to properly clear the deck for the performing act, (except for the drum kit setup which is likely to always stay set on a drum riser up center regardless of if drums are used or not. leaving that group of mics up saves a LOT of transition time). if done right, a bass DI and/or a 57 on a short stand for a guitar amp can also strike straight upstage near the drum riser and not need to be taken down. so in practical reality, you are only moving vocal and horn mics on or off a downstage row which means it can happen a lot more quickly and easily.

since this is my method, and the common method i've seen, i really do strike the mic and stand as i am primarily dealing with the "front row" of mics. and they always move to one side of the stage only, the side with the monitor desk if there is one. the key is to always have a prescribed plan for which inputs in the stagebox/mixer will be used for which things. you DO NOT want to keep changing that. but if you always know that vocal 1 goes in such and such a channel, you can just bust that out with a minimum of thought and chit chat.

i can imagine some smaller setups where you could get by with leaving more of the mics up and making the acts work around them, but it's not typical. per bubba's post, leaving mic cables all over the deck is a bad idea. that is just plain dumb. however, having an intelligent plan for striking the vocal mics and stands for the performers is typical. it can be done in a smart way, though. since some mics, like the drum kit setup, are normally left up, changeovers shouldn't have to be too ugly.

[ggunn]

I was working a stage at SXSW a few years back, and this Nationally Recognized Act (who will go nameless, but let's just call them Wilco) showed up to play a slot in the middle of the evening (six bands, forty minute sets, starting on the hour). They arrived with their own roadies, who proceeded to pull every mic cable out of the stage boxes and every mic and stand offstage, and install all their own.

The band refused to stop playing at the end of their alotted time, and when they did finally quit, their roadies lollygagged around getting their gear off the stage. When they were done, they left us with a totally bare stage five minutes after the next act was to have gone on.

Jerks.

[clicktrack]

I'm glad that Pounce added festivals to the title, because it is indeed apropos.

Festival work is extremely stressful for us in the mobile world, but I truly think that the guys in monitor land should be paid in gold during festival season.

Don't get me wrong...the FOH guys work hard as well and often come and give the monitor guys a hand during changeovers, but the monitor guys truly don't have a chance to get away.

Monitor land will parse the stage plot, co-ordinate the instruments and what to mic them with, do a mini-line check, make sure the pukes in the mobile are happy (sic), make sure FOH is happy, and setting up anywhere from 1 to 8 mixes onstage for the performer...all within about 15 minutes.

They should be paid huge for what they do.

[pounce]

gordon, i feel ya. every festival has at least one act that thinks that they shouldn't have to play by the same rules as everyone else. for some reason, it becomes a problem for the crew on site though, not for the organizers of the event who should have laid out the rules when they booked the act.

btw - i do make it quite clear that other folks won't be touching my sound gear without my permission. so a road crew shouldn't and won't feel free to move my shit without checking in with me first. i can assure that. i can still make the band sound good, or not depending on details like this.

[dwoz]

I can remember very distinctly, like it was yesterday, the time I was playing as an opening act for a very large "has-been" act. These musicians were all top notch studio kats...the two principals were definitely upstanding, gracious folks, but as I started in our *very abbreviated* sound check powow with the touring monitor mixer, It was made very clear that the only way he was going to be giving us any monitors at all was if we ponied up some form of "blow"...

...either the kind of "blow" that comes in a little brown vial, and is a powdery crystalline substance, or the kind of "blow" that is administered by compliant female members of our entourage (yeah, right...as if.)

Otherwise, no monitors.

The particular female entourage member he had in mind, happened to be the underage girl who was my au pair, a girl from france who was over here to care for my young children. Very pretty, very much my responsibility.

Somehow, I didn't feel good about asking her to toss her virginity under the buss and give this unwashed scumbag a ride on the spin cycle...just so I could hear myself sing out of tune.

I recall that we finally ended up trading monitors (set and forget, mind you) for a nice large deli turkey and swiss, as we were basically fresh out of coke heads and compliant wimmenfolk.

go figure. Aim high, get a turkey sandwich.

dwoz

[pounce]

dwoz, i don't know what to say.

yes, i know this shit happens. i get that.

otoh, this is beyond objectionable. the guys was hired to do monitors for the show, he shouldn't have to have been bribed to do his damn job. i have no tolerance for that "rock and roll" mindset that band or crew members don't have to play by the rules. what a shitty story. hey, i'm all for the sex and drugs that can come with the lifestyle, i've just never had to bribe someone to get it. that's the important difference.

[clicktrack]

hey, i'm all for the sex and drugs that can come with the lifestyle, i've just never had to bribe someone to get it. that's the important difference.

Maybe he's butt-ugly. Ugly audio guys need blowjobs too :).

[dwoz]

this douche-bag was butt-ugly, pockmarked, stringy hair, strung out, meth-skinny, bad teeth.

Bad fucking ears too.

If ever there was a candidate for a tire-iron to the kneecaps, it was this floater.

We, the openers, had made the effort to be IMPECCABLE guests.

We fucking rocked too. great show. I'll see if I can find a picture.

dwoz

[AxeSlash]

I'm glad that Pounce added festivals to the title, because it is indeed apropos.

Festival work is extremely stressful for us in the mobile world, but I truly think that the guys in monitor land should be paid in gold during festival season.

Don't get me wrong...the FOH guys work hard as well and often come and give the monitor guys a hand during changeovers, but the monitor guys truly don't have a chance to get away.

Monitor land will parse the stage plot, co-ordinate the instruments and what to mic them with, do a mini-line check, make sure the pukes in the mobile are happy (sic), make sure FOH is happy, and setting up anywhere from 1 to 8 mixes onstage for the performer...all within about 15 minutes.

They should be paid huge for what they do.

A fucking men.

I saw a guy bring 56 full-to-the-brim channels full of percussion, orchestral shit, deaf-as-a-post vocalists, plus the usual rock band suspects into 26 mixes with 15 minutes of 'rehearsal' (not sound check) while every one of those guys on stage was shouting over each other as to what they wanted to hear. This guy never even broke a sweat and swore not once. After the whole fiasco was done I just said "I wouldn't have wanted to be you". I think I have more respect for that guy than anyone else I know. Fantastic guy.

And Pounce, that's the way we do things with our mic striking/patching arrangements. The only thing I'd add is that labelling of mic cables and communication with FOH is more important than your own life when doing that shit.

Generally speaking when we strike a mic we just coil up the cable and hang it on the stand still plugged into the mic, so when the next act appear you just take the appropriate mic, stand, and cable combo and whack it into the appropriate channel on the box. Job done. We generally label up, cable up, and stand up every mic on the job before the first act even get near the stage.

Easy access to mic cable is also a must - we tip divided wedge cases on their ends to make shelves on which we separate out the different lengths of cable.

Oh and while we're on the subject, anyone who has successfully pulled off an Asian music festival without any hitches also gets massive respect from me. I've done a few of those things and they're always hell. Being stage manager on those things is just basically taking on the weight of the world and then some.

[archtop]

I like to mute the channels unplug the mic (from the labeled cord) and leave it on the stand, get 'em outta the way, let the cord lay,outta harms way, let the band set-up, bring the mics back and plug them in. (to the labeled cord, gtr left, tom 1, etc.)next band, rinse and repeat, fairly speedy.

[AxeSlash]

We tend to label the mics 'SM57 #1' or just 'SM 57', but labelled with different colour PVC tape so you can see at a glance what mic is in which hole.

A lot of people gloss over labelling as something that is a waste of time.

It's not. It's fucking not.

[ggunn]

We tend to label the mics 'SM57 #1' or just 'SM 57', but labelled with different colour PVC tape so you can see at a glance what mic is in which hole.

A lot of people gloss over labelling as something that is a waste of time.

It's not. It's fucking not.

I was helping a fledgling FOH mixer one night, who was also getting help from another guy. I noticed that she didn't have the board labeled at all, and she was struggling to find the correct channel strip every time she needed to make an adjustment. I asked her why the board wasn't labeled, and she replied, "Bruce (the other guy who was coaching her) told me that that would be cheating." I explained to her as diplomatically as I could that Bruce was an idiot.

[bunnerabb]

Get a labelmaker.

Buy some 1 1/2" heat shrink.

Get a heat gun.

Get mic cables and make labels for both connects.

"KICK IN"
"KICK OUT"
"SNARE HI"

Etc...

Do every possible channel patch for a festival.

Slip heat shrink around the Neutriks, heat cover the label.

You can do it with stands, too if you want.

Bulletproof for repatches.

[archtop]

Also try to have them show up as you see them:

guitar stage right, guitar stage left.

vox stage right, vox center, vox stage left etc:

[bunnerabb]

Yeah.. perfect. CLEAR heat shrink, by the way. And make at least two of each cable for long runs.

[AxeSlash]

And for anyone who doesn't already do it, colour code your cable lengths.

We have ours thus:

One white band of PVC around the cable: 3m
One yellow band: 5m
One red: 10m
Two reds: 20m
Three reds: 30m
etc etc.

Makes it much easier to grab the right length cable straight away.

[pounce]

the only lengths i see with any regularity in the states are 25, 50, and 100 foot. so blue, red, and yellow seem to come up a lot to designate the lengths. after having worked for a particular local sound company for some time, i'm given to thier system and therefore like them i use blue to signify 25 foot lengths, red for 50, and yellow for 100. since it's what i learned there it's easier to use their system. i never see longer cables than that, and the little shorties are a rare occurance that doesn't seem to make it onto the cable coloring chart. they are usually set aside in some workbox or gack box of some sort with a special purpose in mind anyway.

[AxeSlash]

Ah I forgot you guys all still work in feet :)

3m, 5m, 10m and 20m are pretty much the standard lengths over here, but there are exceptions (socapex runs etc) where you might end up with a 30m or more.

any mic cable under 3m generally lives in our patch case/bits box labelled as 'short patch' anyway.

[burnsy]

On the note of labelling my non tech friends always ask me why the desk are labelled kick , snare , e.t.c and I never have an official answer why as I label my desk how I want to rather than how I see many a your coming through.

Also another they ask are why are groups in the centre of the console ?

Again I had no real proper answer for both of these so I was wondering if you guys could shed some light ?

[bunnerabb]

Center master sections were modled after studio desk for when you were in a two engineer at a go mix.

They're standard now for everthing from 4k Yams to Soundcraft LX.

I usually set my drums up like so:

01 Kick in
02 Kick out
03 Hat
04 Snare Hi
05 Snare Lo
06 Tom 1
07 Tom 2
08 Tom 3
09 Tom 4
10 O/H L
11 O/H R

Then the bass, guitars, keys, horns, and vocals.

This is because I work with the faders and E.Q. more on the instruments and vocals and the closer they are to the center section and the VCAs, the more I like it and my drum mix is usually etched in stone other than effect cues.

[burnsy]

Cheers dude , I shall pass on the enlightenment, I can see the sense in that really. But as Im normally on a spirit live 16 I dont have the joy of groups unless im on the k3 in work which I find so much nicer to use.