Bands - what do venues/sound guys do bad [Archive]

srvenable

January 13th, 2007, 01:25 AM

I've played 10 or so shows at 500-1000 seat venues, so I don't have a lot of experience yet.

We're a weird band. 14 vocalists. 5 or 6 instruments. Some engineers see us as a challenge, some as a pain in the ass. Most of the FOH guys are of the former: they see miking us as if it were a puzzle, and that's cool. Most of the monitoring engineers look at us and don't know where to start.

Being "beginners" at performing with sound reinforcement, we didn't have monitoring mix lists -- I didn't even know such a thing existed until I found this forum. No one ever asked me for one or suggested that we should have one before here. Not to say that we haven't received some valuable advice from sound engineers -- we have.

There have been a couple of times when we've had monitoring issues and I couldn't catch the engineer's eye because his nose was buried in a paperback. Usually (but not always) this happens when we're opening.

We played a gig where there were about half a dozen bands playing in succession, with each band, the schedule fell 5 or 10 minutes behind. By the time it got to us, we were setting up at the time our set was SUPPOSED to be finished. They used our set to get the stage back on schedule: we were supposed to do 30 minutes. The sound guy (who was also the stage manager) cut us off after less than 10 minutes -- 3 songs in. That was lame. We'd brought hundreds of people to this event and more than half of them left disgusted because they paid whatever the door was to get in, to see us, and they got three songs.

Those things definitely stand out, but I gotta say, the majority of SE's I've dealt with have been very competent and professional. And I usually offer to buy them a beer and give 'em a armful of swag as a thank you when the show's finished.

pounce

January 13th, 2007, 02:10 AM

i've seen some festival style shows get off schedule just like you said, just five or so minutes each band until we were really far off by late in the day. it was really bad for the last band or two, and that's entirely the fault of the stage manager. i really prefer things to stay on schedule, or at least let it run a little late instead of cutting off the last band. shame to hear that. totally not cool.

Spock

January 13th, 2007, 06:12 AM

I can say that many years ago we did run in to a few places that were just nasty to us, for no reason.

A total zero place and they were bitching at us off stage, saying that we were playing a "class" place. Yea, sure, right. OK, we were not playing out 6 nights a week, but that doesn't mean that we didn't play well, and knew what we were doing.

It's all a matter of basic respect. Dont' start out thinking I'm a fuckwit music guy, and I will not think you are an idiot AE.

And when I'm on the other side of the desk, just treat me like a person and we'll get along just fine.

rockdart

January 13th, 2007, 10:55 PM

It seems to me that the FOH's out there that are reasonable and easy to deal with are few and far between. Too much ego, too pig headed or too much assembly line shows with bad bands.

Of course, bands that are easy to work with are few and far between too. The ones that think that just because they spent money at banjo center on some equiptment, that they automatically know what's what.

Maybe this is a subject for a different thread, but how many times have you bit your toungue when out and it's apparent that the FOH is really weak? Or do you not bite your toungue and offer suggestions?

pounce

January 13th, 2007, 11:49 PM

Maybe this is a subject for a different thread, but how many times have you bit your toungue when out and it's apparent that the FOH is really weak? Or do you not bite your toungue and offer suggestions?

i think this is a great thread for that. what do you do when the support staff or FOH guy isn't any good? good question. i remember being in a band and having guys who were good, guys who tried to work for us but who we didn't explain our sound and setup to very well therefore we had only an OK experience, and some FOH guys who just weren't good for whatever reason. at that point in time i didn't know enough technical sound stuff or music business and protocol stuff to even begin to know how to describe or fix those kinds of problems, or what to do to prevent these problems.

now, i'd consider going to a club i was going to play a show in and observing the sound guy and introducing myself and so forth (at an opportune time) to grease the wheels for my own show. or if it was a really bad deal find a way to bring my own soundguy in to run the board. whatever it takes.

my guess is that the most common thread in sound man complaints will be bands doing dates in clubs where they don't so much know the soundguy or gear, where the band and soundguy aren't friendly with each other, and perhaps the soundguy isn't particularly experienced. i'd also guess that this happens more often in clubs/bars where some club owners might hire less experienced engineers and where the club management never establishes a healthy relationship with talent, so things are kind of doomed from the start. just a best guess as to where this problem happens the most.

studjo

January 14th, 2007, 12:42 AM

In my neck of woods I see a trend to pack a full blown PA in club where an ordinary vocal-PA would be more than enough. In those places they also hire a company with a guy not experienced enough - so the whole thing tunrns into an unidentifiable mess.

another thing that crosses my mind: when I freelanced for rental companies I did few nice festivals has system eng/mixer for bands without eng. Guess what there weren't that many band-engineers who understood how a mixing desk works. Name bands with guys without a clue - hardly to believe.
So when I travel around with my band I just use the house tech or when I know the guy has no clue beforehand I'll have a friend come with us (who does a reasonable job afaik)

Jo

Tim Armstrong

January 14th, 2007, 03:56 AM

The largest venue in our area is owned by a fucking moron.

Sigh...

He had a large concert hall built, very fancy, huge stage, lovely woodwork everywhere, but when the contractor started putting up acoustic treatments, he stopped them, saying he didn't want that shit up ruining the decor of the place.

Then he fired/chased off his staff sound guy and all of his assistants, handing the whole shooting match over to a 19-year-old kid who barely knew his ass from a hole in the ground.

HE, in turn, hired a bunch of his party pals as assistants.

One thing these guys absolutely didn't understand: monitor mixes. One gig, we were doing the sound check and I suddenly realized that my monitor had only MY voice in it. I asked my brother if he could hear me. Nope. Then I had him talk into his mic, same thing, his mic only in his monitor. Needless to say, harmony singing isn't as easy when you can't hear the other singer's voice!

Same place has an outdoor stage which has electronic drums already set up. Dead, dynamic-free, cheap-ass edrums. Our drummer asked if he could use his snare with a 57, as the "snare" drum on the set was making him suicidal. No dice. They also had a hissy fit when my brother showed up with a Deluxe Reverb. "TOO LOUD!!!!" they cried, "Don't you have a Line Six or some kind of preamp?"

Fortunately for us, we've apparently crossed some kind of age barrier and are now too old to play there...

:Roll eyes:

Tim

Johnny

January 14th, 2007, 05:37 AM

Trying to communicate with me during a line check without a talkback, or leaving the talkback up while building a monitor mix (if I'm using in-ears, and the board is far enough away, the room ambience blurs what I'm really hearing).

Tim Halligan

January 14th, 2007, 05:04 PM

I'm going to sound like an old guy, but the biggest problem I've noticed with soundguys is that usually everything is too damn loud in relation to the musical style, and the size of the crowd.

The next mistake they make is trying to make any band sound like every other band...although sometimes it can be incongruously funny...

A friend plays in a folk rock style of band...gentle drums and bass, a couple of acoustic guitars, and really good vocals. I go and see them whenever they play at my local pub. Usually they'll play mid-week, and consequently the crowd isn't huge...but the young sound guy has the Metallica drum sound happening for them at earbleed levels, with fizzy DI'd guitars, and vocals somewhere other than where they should be...ie up front.

Nobody seems to have that commonsense mixing ability anymore...sad.

Cheers,
Tim

Droolbucket

January 14th, 2007, 05:40 PM

In my experience, most sound guys are more professional than the bands they're mixing. In fact, most sound guys are better MUSICIANS than the bands they're mixing. In my area, it seems the sound guys are musicians who took an interest in the equipment, read the manuals, and listened to the band as a whole rather than just their own parts. Sound guys seem to have to tolerate the musicians standing around in their way on stage, and rarely ever say, "Get the hell out of my way!".
Having said all that, my peeve as a musician is the monitor sends.... it seems that a lot of boards have monitor/aux sends that are post-EQ. We try to get our monitors dialed in at soundcheck, including calling out specific frequencies we'd like to have boosted or cut. Then, within a couple of songs into the show, the sound guy decides to tweak the channel EQ's, so our monitor EQ goes out the window. If he boosts a frequency too high at the board, the monitors squeal, and then get turned down. Then, it's really awkward to try to get the monitors fixed during the show.
We used to take along our own little splitter boxes and an ancient Peavey 6 channel mixer, and run our own monitors from the stage. It was ALWAYS better than having the monitors run from FOH.
On the other side of the board, I'm continually amused by musicians who come out during break (or say over the mic, if they're really green), "The kick/bass/guitar/vocal isn't loud enough out front!" How do they know? They're behind the PA! Years ago I had a guitarist who continually played extremely loud. One night they decided to record a board tape. On playback, the guitarist was irate to discover his guitar was not in the mix. I explained that he was already too loud off the stage, and I didn't need to turn him up in the board. He decided he was getting screwed in the mix, and turned up even louder to compensate. The band self-destructed a few weeks later.
Aaaahh, memories.....

By the way, one of the most thoughtful things I've seen is a local lighting guy who places an ice-cold bottled water onstage for each musician. Nice touch.

Droolbucket

jerryskid

January 15th, 2007, 04:33 AM

Helped run monitors for the opening of the "Columbia Music Hall", an old theater that was built in 1913 and has stood empty for nearly 25 years. The gentlemen who own it have done a beautiful job restoring it and it's a beautiful 2,500 capacity venue. But these guys have no idea how to run a showclub. The lineup consisted of four bands, and the stage crew had no plan of how to changeover. It was a mass clusterfuck and they ended up losing most of the house during the change from the 3rd to the 4th band taking too long. I tried my best to be of some help to the crew, but was told by the stage manager that I was here to run sound, not be a stagehand, (and this is a non union hall). I wasn't even charging the house anything, just trying to be nice and help get this beautiful theater up and running. So after being treated quite rudely, I will never work for these people for any kind of money. I know that stress probably has alot to do with their attitude, but I was doing my good deed for the week and was treated shabbily. Oh well, if they keep going like they are now, they're not going to be in business much longer anyway. I'm sure that now it's been compleatly renovated, that someone with some capital can make a go of it.
I hope so, because it is a very lovely venue and would be a huge asset to the community.

Johnny

January 15th, 2007, 05:03 AM

How could I forget "making my drums sound like cannon fire?" I mean, when they aren't supposed to, of course. Oh, and gating the crap out of them when it isn't necessary.

ggunn

January 15th, 2007, 06:41 PM

We got to a club to play once, and I went in to make contact with the house. I found the manager and asked him where the FOH person was. He looked over at the bar and told one of the barmaids, "Honey, would you get the sound stuff going for these guys?" Uh-oh...

Swafford

January 15th, 2007, 10:20 PM

Re: Bands - what do venues/sound guys do bad?

Not much. Arrive late would be my only issue. I mean, why am I loading in at 7:30pm if dillwad's not showing up till 9?

rockdart

January 16th, 2007, 12:12 AM

I've both bit my toungue and have offered suggestions.

Sometimes when suggesting, things go really well. I've found that it depends how deep into the cups I may be... but if I tell someone that 2-4k is ripping peoples heads off in an area, the sound man should at least walk out from behind the console and take a listen. There's no safety line attached to a key like on a jet ski, where if you're seperated, it'll cut the motor.

Get out and take a freaking listen! Doesn't hurt too to go see a audiologist and understand where your frequency loss in your hearing is either - that deaf dude's compensation is creating an identical loss throughout the crowd.

When I was running sound, I'd listen to nearly everyone that came by and wanted to talk shop. I learned a lot in those knowledge swaps. There'd always be the "hey, if you do this..." followed by "yeah, but I'd need ____ to do that and I don't, so I'm forced to do it like _____". I'd go watch other sound dudes and learn new equipment that I hadn't seen before... asked them questions.

The ones that walked up and said I needed to turn up the woofers I just ignored though.

But from a live player perspective - the best place I ever played (meaning the crew that was the coolest to work with and knew their sh*t) was the Whiskey A Go-Go. Those guys are on it.

I finally got to experience monitors. I'm not kidding.

There are too many times where the place we're playing has them, but the mix sucks or isn't there at all. You can have the roadie talk to the guy on the board the whole set and nothing will change. I've just gotten used to 'playing on faith'.

bobzilla77

January 17th, 2007, 03:32 AM

Jason Phair

January 17th, 2007, 06:31 AM

Ah, the "Vinnie Paul drum sound for a bluegrass trio" conundrum.

I went through that phase.

I'm guessing most young/new soundguys do.

It takes awhile to learn how to be powerful or big, or fat and intimate without being loud.

Some never learn it.

For guys who come up doing rock music (I'm excluding professional theatre and other genre mixers, because that's what most guys ascend TO, not come up AS, because it's cushier, pays more money, is more reliable, and is more selective), there seems to be an order in which most learn how to mix.

First up...make everything vaguely audible without butchering it and shitting your pants. Well, shitting your pants is okay as long as things are audible.

Second...get the drums big. REALLY FUCKING BIG.

Third...big drums are cool, but man...it'd be cool to hear the vocals. Get that fucker out front!

Third...drums are cool, and vocals are important, but hey, there's other instruments! And they effect everything else. Holy shit! Get a good wide guitar sound, and it creates a perfect bed for your vocal. Got a bitey vocal? Warm up the bass a bit, and the vocal does too. Gee whiz...is this why they call it mixing?!

Last...what the fuck, I'm deaf, hungover, and dont' know who or where I am. I'm gonna go apply at McDonald's.

Tim Armstrong

January 17th, 2007, 06:49 AM

I'm going to sound like an old guy, but the biggest problem I've noticed with soundguys is that usually everything is too damn loud in relation to the musical style, and the size of the crowd.

Been there, done that, have the t-shirt! I can recall several times being in the audience when the FOH volume was at ear-damaging levels. One night about ten years ago, I was at a fairly legendary rock'n'roll bar in Denver called Herman's Hideaway to see Marshall Crenshaw. Marshall had a bassist (for some reason, I seem to remember that Andy Paley was playing bass) and a drummer, and he was playing his gold Strat through an old VOX AC30.

Well, it was so fucking loud out front that I couldn't even make out what songs he was playing. I had to make bar napkin ear plugs just to stay in the room! The sound desk was behind me about fifteen feet, so I walked back and asked the guy to bring it down just a little, it was killing us. Of course, he told me to fuck off...

Years ago I had a guitarist who continually played extremely loud. One night they decided to record a board tape. On playback, the guitarist was irate to discover his guitar was not in the mix. I explained that he was already too loud off the stage, and I didn't need to turn him up in the board. He decided he was getting screwed in the mix, and turned up even louder to compensate. The band self-destructed a few weeks later.

Hey, I've played gigs with that guy!!!

Oh, wait, I guess we've ALL played gigs with that guy...

Cheers, Tim

pounce

January 17th, 2007, 05:47 PM

just chiming in the overly loud sound reinforcement confounds me time and time again.

as a reference, when david bowie played at our place on his last tour, it was loud but the perfect volume. actually, i still rate it as the best sounding show i've ever heard. really good gear, great crew, and of course plenty of talent on stage. the opening act, using the same gear, didn't sound nearly as good. very overdriven and slightly distorted in a bad way the whole time. not good. again, same venue, same system, but run too loud and without as much skill as david bowies was.

avril lavigne i think had the loudest show in our space, and i remember being shocked since the audience was all like 11 year old girls with no ear protection at all. our entire crew, all used to this thing, all people who do this as a full time living, were running around looking for our ear plugs. fortunately we have a box of them off stage left, but we don't normally have to make a bee line for them. that day we did. seemed especially wrong and unecessary given the audience.

eagan

January 17th, 2007, 07:46 PM

There have been some times where I was asked to do FOH for bands I had actually played in, in festival or (ack! horror!) "battle of the bands" gigs. Basically, where the band normally played small clubs, were relatively straightforward, and the stage volume was such that out front, it usually was just a case of needing vocals and maybe a tiny bit of blend and fill, and they managed (with the feedback of actual objective ears they trusted out front) managed to make it work just with a small board they ran from stage.

One experience that stuck in my head was the time I was asked to do this at some battle of the bands horror at a large local club, system provided by what is usually regarded as a pretty serious local SR company.

Get there in the afternoon, I walk over to the FOH spot to introduce myself and get my bearings. I start talking to the guy from the sound company, there to babysit the system and maybe mix for anybody who didn't have somebody of their own, and practically the first thing out of his mouth is "no instruments in monitors!". In my case, this was a band that was a simple guitar/bass/drums trio rock band, and these guys needed nothing in the monitors except their own vocals anyway, but practically before I'd even gotten my own name out of my mouth and said a thing about the band and/or what I needed or they needed, he's rattling away on this as some kind of mantra or obsessive-compulsive chant.

Nothing about the system and how it was set up, nothing about processors available and signal routing, nothing about the room and any little quirks and anomalies I might need to know about and adjust for, just Rule Number One, repeatedly.

A real dickhead, whose one and only concern the whole time was to protect his wonderful system from these goons who were apparently only here to blow it up. Not a bit of help, at any time. Well, with one exception. When it came to stage setup, there was not a fucking chance in hell that I was going to be allowed to so much as touch a mic or stand, but all through the minimal few minutes that took, he acted as if this was the most intrusive and demanding aggravation he had ever had to deal with.

Naturally, when it came time for the band's set, you know what reminder he barked in my ear just before the drummer counted in the first tune. Good thing they didn't have a keyboard player, or electronic drums, or some other DI source they needed to hear.

JLE

ggunn

January 17th, 2007, 11:41 PM

1. No place to store the equipment, and no way get it out of the venue easily.
2. If it's absolutely necessary to move the gear out onto the street as soon as our set is over, perhaps could this be brought to my attention before we start playing. I don't like to receive unpleasant surprises before my breathing has returned to normal.
3. Any kind of Mystery Rules. We got cut off early at one club, and were royally pissed about it. The FOH guy was pissed at us too. "Didn't you see the light? When that red light on the soundboard comes on, that means LAST SONG!!!!! You assholes totally played through it - what am I supposed to do besides cut the power mid-song?"

I was doing FOH for a friend's band (with my gear) at a city owned venue. There was this moron Civil Servant whose job it was was to lock up the place after the gig. He arrived and decided that it was time for the band to stop playing. Did he come up to someone and tell them that? No. Did he cut the power off? Not even that. The numbnuts jerkwad went to the main breaker to the stage area in the middle of a song and flipped it off and on about 10 times! I had to be physically restrained from assaulting the guy, and I haven't been in a fight since the sixth grade.

Luckily for that idiot, my gear came through with no permanent damage, but I cannot remember being quite so angry at something loosely classed as a human being (I have gone ballistic at machinery and electronics many times) before or since.

CaptainHook

January 20th, 2007, 01:39 AM

omikl

January 20th, 2007, 02:50 PM

My pet hate at gigs, is no vocal.

I dont care if you have to turn down everything else to the
point where the P.A is just acting as a vocal P.A.
Give me the fricken vox damn it.

It's even worse at festival shows here.

Mine's where there's no fucking power available within hiking distance of the "stage aera", and the bar staff look at you like you're from Mars when you ask where the nearest power point to the area you're supposed to set up in is. "Oh yeah. There's one behind the bar when we don't need it for the blender...".

Or even worse, when the cocksuckers running the lights got there first and used up whatever power outlets were available:

"Oh yeah, it's vitally important that your smoke machine works. My guitar amp and pedal board are obviously optional extras when the band plays"

Toss pots.

bunnerabb

January 20th, 2007, 04:20 PM

which is why if you have a shithouse full of lights and effects and lots of air to move you need a power distro. (http://www.motionlabs.com/nu/distro.jpg)

They don't have to be this jazzy but they DO need to be able to meet NEC specification.

I've done gigs in the '80s where it was bascially phat cable and hippo clips with an earth, two hot legs and a return for basic, two leg, single phase.

Works.

I had to tie it in, too.

There are clubs whose main panels are as bad as their outlets.

pounce

January 20th, 2007, 04:29 PM

yes, i think bad power would be a real concern. i always am using those motion labs distro's and i love them. i don't think i'd ever seen one in a club, though.

Dr. Bob

January 20th, 2007, 06:02 PM

Maybe it's cause' our "womb-munity" ain't loaded with a bunch of total buttheads, but it appears that the majority of the issues are venues... as both muso and AE, I have to agree (in general terms)... the venue is the root cause of many issues... mostly logistical.

Since this is a muso based POV...

There's two things that AE's have done that I take issue with.

The first thing that rips my butt cheeks sideways is when the soundguy thinks he knows more about what I want to hear than I do. Listen up there dipwad at the board... it's my ears... I think I have the right to ask for what I want, not just what you think I ought to have... and don't think for one minute that I'm not completly in control of my ability to take a drumstick and place it where you'll take at least a week to dig it out. You asked me what I wanted... I told you. Now find the little knob that corresponds to the instrument I'm asking for, put yer' dikbeater on it and turn the damn thing until I tell you to stop. Jeeze... and sometime this week would be really appreciated.

I'm guilty of this next one myself (at FOH)... but when we're on stage, at least try to pay attention to the band... If the keyboard patch is weak, then I need more keys on the song... I'm going to ask for some more keys and it'd sure be nice if you'ld be paying attention. Now when the AE's running both monitors AND FOH, I can understand that you might be busy running FOH and may not see everything going on... so I'll cut some slack there... But if you're paying more attention to the little hotttie flashing her wares as opposed to doing your job, you'ld rather sandpaper a wildcat's ass in a phone booth than deal with what you deserve to get from the band.

These are both kinda' rare to run into, but it's happened more than once... less than a hundred... but it's not something that's fun to deal with anytime you do have to deal with either one. Thankfully (for the AE), I've never had to deal with both at the same time.

As far as venues... power and parking are the two things that drive me nuts!

Can't always do too much about the parking other than be sure to have contingency plans if you can't get good access to the doors or stage.

As far as power... I ended up building my own distro... (and I'm the drummer... go figure, huh?) I put it in a rolling case and made it a 50 amp watertight twistlock... like most large venues use. Then I made a bunch of different tails...
50 Amp Twist
30 Amp Twist
Dual 20 Amp Twist
Dual 20 Amp Blade
Dual 15 Amp Blade (Scary)
3 Wire Range (the scariest!)
4 Wire Range
Bare Wire Tails

Then I made 4 different length feeder lines...
1-25 foot, 1-50 foot, 1-75 foot, and 1-125 foot.

Those lengths can be fitted together with the 50 Amp twists to get me anywhere I need to go... I drop the distro at the back of the stage and VIOLA' instant stage power! We used one side of the breaker-box for audio and the other for lighting. Didn't have too much lighting so it worked out well.

I spent the extra bucks for the watertight's for obvious reasons... rain, beer, and the occassional run through the kitchen of a frat house where it's likely to see all the above... and more.

Statick

January 23rd, 2007, 07:33 PM

pounce

January 24th, 2007, 12:04 AM

i was actually going to post something similar to this thread a few weeks ago, but forgot

one place we played at recently had someone ready to meet us when we arrived. not sure what her actual job was, think she may have been a manager of some kind. she didn't stick around for the gig anyway.

we pulled up outside the venue, she came outside with a few lads to help us move gear upstairs. she then told the driver where he could park the van, then took us inside. she first introduced us to the bar manager for that evening, and to the soundman, so we all knew each others names. she then took us on a tour of the premesis - where the stage entrance was, the toilets, the backstage area, the backstage toilets, where we could leave cases and gear we weren't keeping onstage during the other bands' sets. she also explained about a deal they have with the restaurant next door which meant we could get half-price thai dinners, put a case of beer in the fridge for us, and produced fresh clean towels for everyone. she then asked "any questions?" and we genuinely had none - everything had already been covered.

it took her less than 10 minutes to complete all of this, but it immediately put everyone in a friendly and relaxed state of mind.

in my small time band playing days, i'd had this happen twice. it was mind blowing and incredible and made all the difference. i loved it an almost felt like a big shot. those shows were during a small mini tour. we played other shows where i don't think i actually talked to anyone associated with the venue - we just kind of set up our stuff, played, and left. it was a little awkward. :(

Statick

January 24th, 2007, 02:14 AM

the place in question i feel is worth naming and praising - the luminaire in london. of all the many small venues i've been in, this one is definitely among the finest - first class treatment and professional attitude from all concerned, as well as a very competent engineer and PA. even though only 50 people came to the show (i think we had some stiff competition at another nearby venue), it still went in the tour diary as one of the best gigs, and is a place i will gladly play in again any time.

bobzilla77

January 25th, 2007, 12:16 AM

i was actually going to post something similar to this thread a few weeks ago, but forgot

one place we played at recently had someone ready to meet us when we arrived. not sure what her actual job was, think she may have been a manager of some kind. she didn't stick around for the gig anyway.

we pulled up outside the venue, she came outside with a few lads to help us move gear upstairs. she then told the driver where he could park the van, then took us inside. she first introduced us to the bar manager for that evening, and to the soundman, so we all knew each others names. she then took us on a tour of the premesis - where the stage entrance was, the toilets, the backstage area, the backstage toilets, where we could leave cases and gear we weren't keeping onstage during the other bands' sets. she also explained about a deal they have with the restaurant next door which meant we could get half-price thai dinners, put a case of beer in the fridge for us, and produced fresh clean towels for everyone. she then asked "any questions?" and we genuinely had none - everything had already been covered.

it took her less than 10 minutes to complete all of this, but it immediately put everyone in a friendly and relaxed state of mind.

I was thinking about this thread and thought I might mention the exceptional times when things are done RIGHT. You took the words out of my mouth. It makes a difference to feel like someone cares about you.

I saw a well known band cursing out the otherwise adequate venue they were playing, because half an hour after soundcheck there was no beer, no room, no guest list, no food buyout, and they couldn't go to dinner till they had this all taken care of. And they were hungry. They were standing around holding their dicks, getting more angry by the moment.

Heck, I'm even pleasantly surprised when the FOH guy introduces himself by name, and asks mine. Sometimes I introduce myself, but FOH dudes on the stage always look like they are trying to solve a puzzle, and I don't want to interrupt them while deep in thought.

timothyclee

February 7th, 2007, 07:12 AM

Big complaint....the size of the drum riser!!!! I think any club or venue that has a permanent drum riser should check to see if a set of drums will actually fit on it. I've been to so many big name clubs and my drumkit barely fits on it and I don't have a huge kit. I've had to actually sit behind the riser with a make shift riser-extender because the riser wasn't deep enough to fit both my kit and my throne. The other problem with the common plywood box riser is that they only use one sheet of plywood on the top so it has this spongy feeling. You feel like you're on a trampoline all night. How much more would it cost to put 2-3 sheets of plywood and stuff the thing with insulation??

And if you use in-ear-monitors good luck at most clubs. I bring a whole monitor rack case with me wherever I play. I run my own monitor mix to my in-ears and I always get slack. I've got an 8 channel mic splitter that I tell the FOH guy to plug into and they usually give me this blank stare!!! how hard is it to shut the damn drum wedge off and run me an XLR cable with the mix of the band on it???

I know sound guys like to use their own mics, but if I show up with my own I'm not going to beat the hell out of yours!! And If you shut the drum wedge off the stage volume will be much quiter.

Tim

JRjr

February 7th, 2007, 10:05 PM

I know sound guys like to use their own mics, but if I show up with my own I'm not going to beat the hell out of yours!!
Tim

you know, i had this conversation with someone the other day. i don't understand why us engineers do that....i mean, i do and i don't.

i had a situation where a classical guitarist comes in and he wanted his guitar mic'd. i had a mic that i thought would go good with what he wanted already set up so when he came in he could sit down, tune, soundcheck, and do whatever he needed to do. he comes in and says, " i have a mic i like to use, but if you have one set up then that's okay". i have the time, and besides, who am i to tell him what mic sounds good with the instrument he plays professionally. he does this for a living, i think he knows his instrument better than i do. i tell him we should try his mic. i go to change out the mic and i am expecting him to pull out a fairly nice mic...a neuman, shure, sennheiser, whatever. instead he pulls out this piece of crap ev. not to rip on ev, but i am not a huge fan of everything they make. my first thought is oh crap...but i am committed and we will give it a shot. if it works out....great, if not, i may have to do some fancy talking or put up another mic along with the ev and give some bullcrap excuse, then turn the ev off in the house and use my mic (some engineer trickery...i know, that's horrible). well lo and behold...his mic sounded amazing with his guitar.

my point is this...if these people spend all this time with their instrument(s), who are we to tell them what is going to sound good before we even hear it. yeah, i know this was a rare circumstance and there are times that we need to step in and make the decision to use a better tool for the job. but if the person is reputable, give them a chance...it may just surprise you. if not, then learn from it.

bunnerabb

February 7th, 2007, 10:32 PM

JRjr

February 7th, 2007, 10:59 PM

I did a gig in '89 with a bluegrass band at some mini shed.

Dobro player whips out a National and a Neumann tube mic, slaps that puppy in and ... perfect. His technique was awesome.

Everybody else wandered in and out of proximity with their instruments like they were jacked into a DI and.. well..

Let's just say that was a gig I would rather eat a bag of rats than mix, again.

good point.....certainly we engineers should be pre-cautious when doing something like that. luckily, i heard good things about this guy beforehand...maybe i just got lucky. i can certainly see your point.

omikl

February 14th, 2007, 10:38 AM

Big complaint....the size of the drum riser!!!!

(Snip)

Tim

Oh boy. Some places I've played that's called "The stage" :) They'll be set up for the typical "Some chick who sings and a bored looking bloke with keys/sequencer" lounge act and a real band shows up. The bar staff will have no comprehension of how much space a four piece with acoustic drums occupies, and the space they've set aside will maybe, and only maybe, be big enough for the drum kit. After you've convinced them to shift another three or four tables you can at least fit the gear in Then cue another night spent trying to avoid smacking the singer with my guitar's headstock...

Was I really complaining the other week that I couldn't gig any more becuace I have small children? Forget I said it! :D