Thread: Drum tracking

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  1. #1
    once played a seventh chord in a folk song Utterly Superior Cocksmanship
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    Default Drum tracking

    Yo guys,
    Balls deep in tracking drums on pretty decently big metal record here. My first real go around on a bunch of dude who "do it". Here's my question:
    How much do you guys find yourself processing during tracking to get what you need?

    Personally I find that I like to process a TON on the way in to get the band where they like to be. Hilarious kit too. Using like 24 mics (not tracks, lots of summing going on too), which I NEVER do. Go figure. Sounds cool.

    P.S. Slip, tried the 414 figure 8 on kick and couldn't get it to do shit for me. What's the deal? Ended up with a SM7b, another thing I almost never use.
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    Default Re: Drum tracking

    ...P.S. Slip, tried the 414 figure 8 on kick and couldn't get it to do shit for me. What's the deal? Ended up with a SM7b, another thing I almost never use.
    Last time I used a 414TLII in the kick, many moons ago it was with the back side (fig8) facing the batter head and very close to the head. It also was facing the outer 1/3 of the head.
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Drum tracking

    In regards with prcessing on the way in:
    I find I try to avoid drawing me into a corner.
    With a good consistent player I might do it, if the mix will be done ITB.
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Drum tracking

    I heartily approve of doing anything and everything that makes it sound right NOW "on the way in"... it will only make the band play better and be more inspired.

    also heartily approve of the SM7 in the bass drum.


    if you don't feel you can make the decisions as to what processing to do, that doesn't mean it should be put off for later. it means someone else should be making the decisions.
  5. #5
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    Default Re: Drum tracking

    I heartily approve of doing anything and everything that makes it sound right NOW "on the way in"... it will only make the band play better and be more inspired.

    also heartily approve of the SM7 in the bass drum.


    if you don't feel you can make the decisions as to what processing to do, that doesn't mean it should be put off for later. it means someone else should be making the decisions.
    I used an SM7 today.
    One of my new favorites on kick.
    Couldn't believe it the first time I tried it.
    Also used m88 on outside.
    Couple is 15's on toms.
    Heil PR30 on the snare
    414's spaced pair
    mono dx77 overhead above the snare......(didn't like much but didn't spend much time on it).
    No processing....
  6. #6
    once played a seventh chord in a folk song Utterly Superior Cocksmanship
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    Default Re: Drum tracking

    I heartily approve of doing anything and everything that makes it sound right NOW "on the way in"... it will only make the band play better and be more inspired.

    also heartily approve of the SM7 in the bass drum.


    if you don't feel you can make the decisions as to what processing to do, that doesn't mean it should be put off for later. it means someone else should be making the decisions.
    I totally agree with the first sentiment and I have positively no problem making decisions even if they will put someone a little bit in a box on down the line.
    Really I'm just kind of curious as to other peoples thoughts on the matter as I run my own studio, so I don't see as many other peoples workflow as I would like to.

    But yeah ended up with something kinda like this
    Kick In> SM7> NPNG> Transient Designer> ADR EQ
    Kick Out> D12> 9098> Transient Designer> NightPro EQ3d
    Snare Top> SM57> NPNG> Transient Designer> API 550b
    Snare Bottom> SM57> Desk> Transient Design>(SUMMED WITH TOP by Bus)
    Rack1 Top> 421> Desk>Desk EQ
    Rack1 Bottom> 57> (used "Y" cable to sum with top mic)
    Rack2 Top> 421> Desk> DeskEQ
    Rack2 Bottom> 57> (Summed with Y)
    Rack3 Top> 421> Desk>Desk eq
    Rack3 Bottom> Audix D2> Summed with Y
    Rack4 Top> D6> Desk
    Rack4 Bottom> D2> Summed with Y
    OHHH KM85> NPNG
    OHFL KM85> NPNG
    Hat> CMC5>Desk (Kinda funny when you think about it)
    Ride> KM85>Desk
    RoomHH>414 EB silver> 9098> Distressor
    RoomFL>414 EB silver> 90998> Distressor
    Mono Room> FET47> Germanium> Compex Limiter
    Trash> American D22> Desk> Omnipressor

    Band and producer liked it. So I guess it worked today.
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    Default Re: Drum tracking

    Rack1 Top> 421> Desk>Desk EQ
    Rack1 Bottom> 57> (used "Y" cable to sum with top mic) [etc.]
    So you have a Y cable with one lead polarity reversed?

    Just curious.


    otek
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Drum tracking

    So you have a Y cable with one lead polarity reversed?

    Just curious.


    otek
    Kind of an important question, I would think.


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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Drum tracking

    Kind of an important question, I would think.
    Not saying polarity reversal should ever be done blindly, but in the top/bottom drum miking thing, it's damn near inevitable.

    Having both mics on a Y-cord, however, you're not gonna hear the "with/without" effect of the cancellation unless you walk out there and unplug one of them manually.


    otek
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  10. #10
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    Default Re: Drum tracking

    or you can simplify things by leaving the bottom mic unplugged
  11. #11
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    Default Re: Drum tracking

    or you can simplify things by leaving the bottom mic unplugged
    I'll take the idea further and say, not even put a mic there even... I hated every time someone miced the bottom of a tom, hate it... I now even hate the bottom mic on a snare with a passion.
    Last edited by Zoesch; March 19th, 2009 at 01:16 PM. Reason: me grammar error? unpossible!


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  12. #12
    once played a seventh chord in a folk song Utterly Superior Cocksmanship
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    Default Re: Drum tracking

    or you can simplify things by leaving the bottom mic unplugged
    Well, I'm just the engineer on these sessions. Not really my call. Which is actually some of the reason I was posting this as I found it kind of hilarious that I'm using THIS many mics on a drum kit. The last session I did was mono OH, Kick, and Room in to a compex. However for what this material is, the sounds I got sound very idiomatic of the genre, which is what they were looking for.
  13. #13
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    Default Re: Drum tracking

    Sorry, you'll have to explain to weedy what this "genre" thing is, and why you think using more mics works for it.
    Gearwire.com Drum Mixing Tutorial: The best way of course is an oscilloscope... but, we don't have that, we don't have that here, so we have to use our ears...
  14. #14
    once played a seventh chord in a folk song Utterly Superior Cocksmanship
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    Default Re: Drum tracking

    Sorry, you'll have to explain to weedy what this "genre" thing is, and why you think using more mics works for it.
    Well, we don't even have to get that philosophical. It's called, the producer would like to have tracks put in a certain way to achieve the sound he's looking for and its MY job to insure that he receives everything that he needs to make the tracks come together in a way that is inline with his vision.
  15. #15
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    Default Re: Drum tracking

    ...its MY job to insure that he receives everything that he needs to make the tracks come together in a way that is inline with his vision.
    Thats absolutely true.

    it doesn't mean though that he should be telling you HOW to get those sounds.
    unless he wants to engineer it himself.
    in which case he should.

    "I'm missing the sizzle on the snare" is a reasonable comment.
    "Hey! How come I don't SEE a bottom snare mic?" isn't.
  16. #16
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    Default Re: Drum tracking

    Weedy, if you were producing and the engineer starting draping
    57's all over the kit plugged into SSL pre's that he brought along,
    what would you say?

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  17. #17
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    Default Re: Drum tracking

    That I hired the wrong engineer?

    Why would I hire someone I didn't think I could trust?


    John Agnello (or Dave Thoener during mixing) did lots of things I wouldn't do on my own on records they made with me.
    Until I was unhappy with something I would barely be bothered to look at, let alone second guess, what they were doing.


    I work a fair amount now with a guy named george Fullan, and same with him.
    I'm sure he adapts based on what he thinks I would like, but he uses lots of mics I wouldn't choose, but until they sound wrong to me I don't look.

    On the other hand, we did something together where he suggested taping a 57 to the 84 on the snare to "have the 57 for the crack", and when we came to listen later to each track he had to admit the 57 was just the poopy version of the 84. It added nothing.
    Since then he's been using some odd little SDC mic he has on the snare (he doesn't own an 84) and it sounds pretty good!
    but he made his choice based on listening, not on what he's "supposed" to do based on what "everyone does".
  18. #18
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    Default Re: Drum tracking

    That I hired the wrong engineer?
    What about a situation like Mixerman's story where he wasn't
    hired as engineer by the producer?

    You've never worked with an engineer you didn't choose?
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  19. #19
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    Default Re: Drum tracking

    but is the point here that the producer is second guessing?


    or is the engineer's ASSUMPTION that there's only one way to give the producer what he wants?

    I don't remember MM saying the producer insisted he mic a certain way or split racks a certain way, for example...
  20. #20
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    Default Re: Drum tracking

    I know your point. I was hoping more for a reaction to 57's
    into SSL's.

    But if you can say with some probability that you know in
    most situations you don't like a 57 or SSL's pre's, WHY
    wouldn't you tell an engineer that?

    Or are they psychic?

    Surely you've told engineers that you work with your
    preferences at SOME point?

    I don't remember MM saying the producer insisted he mic a certain way or split racks a certain way, for example...
    Well, maybe not quite that but kinda similar and he hadn't even been
    into the studio to hear drums at this stage:

    At 10AM I get a call from the Producer. He has this great idea. He wants to use a PA system with the drums to get a really big and fat drum sound. He referenced another producer (a friend) that swears by this, and he had his Personal Assistant (a relative Iím sure) hire a sound reinforcement guy to come to the studio and set up the system.

    After dropping the little PA bomb on me, he decides to ask me how everything sounds. (What does it matter? Itís all going to change now)
    Hehe. There are probably even worse examples but i couldn't be
    bothered searching further.
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