1. #1
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    Uh oh. Justice Department has launched inquiry into digital music pricing

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    Default Re: Justice Department has launched inquiry into digital music pricing

    But people briefed on the inquiries also said investigators had asked in particular about recent allegations that Apple used its dominant market position to persuade music labels to refuse to give the online retailer Amazon.com exclusive access to music about to be released.
    And why the hell should Amazon be allowed EXCLUSIVE access to sell music a day before it's released?

    I'm with Apple on this one.

    No one company should EVER be allowed an exclusive like that - it's an unfair business practice. It's the same damn thing that Walmart uses to force indy dealers out of markets.
    Last edited by John Eppstein; May 27th, 2010 at 12:07 AM.
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    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
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    Default Re: Justice Department has launched inquiry into digital music pricing

    Artists deserve the right to make an exclusive distribution arrangement with anybody under any terms. Apple is trying to penalize them instead of stepping up and competing by making a better offer than Amazon.

    And by the way, this also makes it perfectly clear exactly how little "democracy" is actually available when it comes to i-tunes.
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    Default Re: Justice Department has launched inquiry into digital music pricing

    Artists deserve the right to make an exclusive distribution arrangement with anybody under any terms. Apple is trying to penalize them instead of stepping up and competing by making a better offer than Amazon.

    And by the way, this also makes it perfectly clear exactly how little "democracy" is actually available when it comes to i-tunes.
    I don't think exclusivity deals are good for anyone except the companies that get the exclusive rights. Pricing and availability should be equal across the board to all vendors.

    Understand, I'm not a fan of i-Tunes. But I'm not a fan of Amazon, either.

    Bob, I'm surprised that someone like you who favors the revival of brick and mortar record shops would be in favor of the very sort of buddy deals that were instrumental in driving them out of business in the first place.
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    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
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    Default Re: Justice Department has launched inquiry into digital music pricing

    What drove small stores out of business was labels and artists not being allowed to make deals giving them extra support. This allowed the big guys to turn hit albums into loss leaders while never even stocking the up and coming artists.

    Retail should not have a "right" to dictate terms to artists. Retailers who offer extra support deserve to be rewarded for it by artists.
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    Default Re: Justice Department has launched inquiry into digital music pricing

    There's just an ever-so-slight difference between robust competition and predatory business practices.
    "...but ma, audio engineering IS gainful employment!..."

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    Default Re: Justice Department has launched inquiry into digital music pricing

    What drove small stores out of business was labels and artists not being allowed to make deals giving them extra support. This allowed the big guys to turn hit albums into loss leaders while never even stocking the up and coming artists.

    Retail should not have a "right" to dictate terms to artists. Retailers who offer extra support deserve to be rewarded for it by artists.
    iT0ons

    298569287956792875689 songs. No overhead.

    You know why? They don't have any actual products, just a server full of files and some webside POS that can only be used with their client. iTunes is a fucking ftp site with proprietary client side.

    Until a recording is something you have to pick up with your hands and put into a player that won't let you move the files, it's all pissing into a wind tunnel.
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    Default Re: Justice Department has launched inquiry into digital music pricing

    Lemme summariseulate.



    "It's a cookbook!"



    "It's PEEEEEEEPULLLLLLL!"
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    Default Re: Justice Department has launched inquiry into digital music pricing

    iT0ons

    298569287956792875689 songs. No overhead.

    You know why? They don't have any actual products, just a server full of files and some webside POS that can only be used with their client. iTunes is a fucking ftp site with proprietary client side.
    But Amazon's download "store" is no different. So why should THEY get an advantage?

    Amazon was doing their featured download just fine for about a year after it was initiated. Then they started DEMANDING the right to offer songs one day before anyone else if an artist wanted featured status. That's demanding preferential treatment and it's an unfair business practice.

    Shitty is shitty. It doesn't matter who does it.

    Until a recording is something you have to pick up with your hands and put into a player that won't let you move the files, it's all pissing into a wind tunnel.
    Absolutely. And abetting Amazon's ability to offer downloads in advance of the proper release date of the record is just cranking up the wind tunnel's fan.
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  10. #10
    Lost the plot Thinks 'Magnificent Seven' is a porn flick
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    Default Re: Justice Department has launched inquiry into digital music pricing

    But Amazon's download "store" is no different. So why should THEY get an advantage?
    I don't recall saying that.

    I got one dog in this fight.

    Stop stealing and conning people with crap, non-existent products.
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    Default Re: Justice Department has launched inquiry into digital music pricing

    But Amazon's download "store" is no different. So why should THEY get an advantage?...
    Why shouldn't they if an artist thinks it's to their advantage to offer Amazon a way to be different?

    Any kind of marketing "deal" specific to one album is virtually always made with the artist's direct involvement as a part of their marketing efforts for that album.
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    Default Re: Justice Department has launched inquiry into digital music pricing

    Why shouldn't they if an artist thinks it's to their advantage to offer Amazon a way to be different?

    Any kind of marketing "deal" specific to one album is virtually always made with the artist's direct involvement as a part of their marketing efforts for that album.
    Bob, your hatred of Apple is blinding you to the facts.

    The artist isn't "offering" Amazon anything. Amazon is going around to the labels and saying "If you want us to feature your artist, you WILL give us an unfair advantage over all your other outlets. If you don't like it you can fuck off!" It's coercion, plain and simple.

    When Amazon started their "Daily feature" program they did not require any special concessions from the artist at all. Then when it became evident that the program was a success and was having an impact on artists' ability to chart they started making demands. "If you want us to promote you, you will give us something that other outlets don't have. Otherwise we won't give you that promotion." It's not the artists offering anything. It's the artists being forced to give something up.

    Supporting Amazon in this case is supporting the "right" of huge online and box box chains to force predatory deals on their suppliers - in this case artists. It's no different than Guitar Center forcing companies to give them an extra 20% off wholesale in exchange for carrying their product.

    As a side note, I think it's hilarious to see all this hatred of Apple from a group of people who are also diehard Apple computer users. This is speaking as a PC guy who has a violent allergy to anything touched by Steve Jobs........
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  13. #13
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    Default Re: Justice Department has launched inquiry into digital music pricing

    Just a little perspective from the second link:

    Apple is by far the largest seller of online music in the United States, with 69 percent of the market, according to data from the NPD Group, a marketing consultancy. Amazonís MP3 store was in second place, with an 8 percent share.
    Man! You have GOT to try a hit of this RANGE SUNSHINE!

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    Default Re: Justice Department has launched inquiry into digital music pricing

    ...The artist isn't "offering" Amazon anything. Amazon is going around to the labels and saying "If you want us to feature your artist, you WILL give us an unfair advantage over all your other outlets. If you don't like it you can fuck off!" It's coercion, plain and simple...
    Nobody's holding a gun to an artist's head to go along with it. I just don't see how its any different from offering end caps or space on listening stations. Apple shouldn't be penalizing artists for choosing to go for some extra visibility on Amazon.
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    Default Re: Justice Department has launched inquiry into digital music pricing

    Nobody's holding a gun to an artist's head to go along with it. I just don't see how its any different from offering end caps or space on listening stations. Apple shouldn't be penalizing artists for choosing to go for some extra visibility on Amazon.
    As I understand it it isn't the extra visibility on Amazon that Apple cares about - it's the one day sales advantage, given that these days the vast majority of sales take place in the first week or two of release that advantage is considerable.

    A gun to the artist's head? No. But given that the "Daily Deal" slot at Amazon has been shown to be a significant factor in some artists charting it's a huge incentive that gives Amazon unfair leverage over the artist.

    As I stated previously, it's no different than Banjo Center offering to take half a manufacturer's yearly output - provided they get an extra 20% or 30% off the wholesale price that every other dealer has to pay. It's an unfair advantage and it's anticompetitive.
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
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    Default Re: Justice Department has launched inquiry into digital music pricing

    Just a little perspective from the second link:
    Apple is by far the largest seller of online music in the United States, with 69 percent of the market, according to data from the NPD Group, a marketing consultancy. Amazon’s MP3 store was in second place, with an 8 percent share.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this at least partly due to the fact that Apple sells a lot of stuff that Amazon doesn't handle? For example, Apple will deal directly with the artist and in fact offers artists favorable terms compared to those available to companies? Whereas Amazon deals either primarily or exclusively with recognized labels. For example, searching for a local band from around here, "The Whiskey Thieves", who have endorsements from liquor companies and open regularly for the likes of Taj Mahal and other major artists and are about to release their second professionally recorded CD (They record up at Prairie Sun) reveals exactly NOTHING on Amazon although their first CD has been available for download on iTunes for a year and in fact has been a featured download there at one point.

    So tell me, which company is doing more to support artists?

    Amazon offers buddy deals to Lady Gaga. Apple supports up and coming artists.

    Amazon has precisely the market share they deserve.

    Given my antipathy to Steve Jobs I really wish there was a viable alternative to Apple. But there isn't right now. Certainly not Amazon. And their attempts to strongarm artists into giving them preferential treatment won't help.
    Last edited by John Eppstein; May 28th, 2010 at 07:34 AM.
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
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    Default Re: Justice Department has launched inquiry into digital music pricing

    Fuck them both. Bandcamp lets me do what I want, charge what I want, and the band gets 100% of the profit. I can even blend our storefront seamlessly into our bands website.

    Fuck. Them. Both.
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    Default Re: Justice Department has launched inquiry into digital music pricing

    ...Apple will deal directly with the artist and in fact offers artists favorable terms compared to those available to companies?...
    As far as I know artists still have to go through distributors like CD Baby/Diskmakers or tunecore to be in the i-tunes store. Amazon allows artists to upload as many titles as they like for free and pays 65 cents for each song sold.
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    Default Re: Justice Department has launched inquiry into digital music pricing

    As a side note, I think it's hilarious to see all this hatred of Apple from a group of people who are also diehard Apple computer users.
    The reason why I run Macs is because the only other OS the commercial DAW developers will compile for is Windows which I hate even more. If Digidesign would compile ProTools to run on QNX or BeOS I would be using one of them and not Mac.
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    Default Re: Justice Department has launched inquiry into digital music pricing

    The reason why I run Macs is because the only other OS the commercial DAW developers will compile for is Windows which I hate even more. If Digidesign would compile ProTools to run on QNX or BeOS I would be using one of them and not Mac.
    Then why don't you run Reaper under Linux?
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????

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