Thread: monitoring over different speakers

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  1. #1
    Valerie Plame's peroxide Hank William's Chauffeur
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    Default monitoring over different speakers

    I bought some Krk VXT 4's recently.

    I sold of my old Rokits to buy them.. thing is I um.. I had 2 sets of Rokit 8's (a friend sold me his cheap)

    So I thought I might sell of my Rokit 8's and get a sub.

    This sounds like a gear question maybe it is a bit but... its also a bit of a mix question.


    I've rigged up my Rokit 8's as a second set of monitors and sure enough compair them t the vxt's and they sound really different.

    Also lots of bass on the rokit 8s so much so I realised thats what kills the midrange.

    But the VXT's now fix that.

    So my question is is that a better mixing enviroment - to have 2 separate monitors (one with poor mixing qualities but good bass) or would you be wanting a sub?

    Whats the better environment to mix on?

    The room I am in is not big which is my other concern in getting a 30hz boomer flying out of control in here.


    I guess I am asking something stupid again but... its been a while!
    SD

    --------

    "If yer still fucking around with it after 90 seconds, then you're gonna be fucking around with it for at least another 90 minutes... and things are not necessarily gonna be getting much better".
  2. #2
    Let it Be Still My Broken Heart Messner's missing toes
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    Default Re: monitoring over different speakers

    The best environment is the one you know - inside out. For me it isn't speakers - it's cans. My Beyer DT770 tells me all I need to know. I know, I'm an abomination. Still...
    .
    .
  3. #3
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    Default Re: monitoring over different speakers

    In any case, what you want is a monitor system that can actually tell you anything about the mix.

    Whether you have a pair of monitors you don't like and that also lie about the bass, or a sub which is even harder to get to sound consistent in a room, you are setting yourself up with a situation which prevents you from making informed decisions about the mix.

    Save the money and don't set yourself up to fail.


    otek
    "Tube color is not the 'thing'. Why would the most linear amplifying device have a color?" - Jonte Knif
  4. #4
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    Default Re: monitoring over different speakers

    I have a really nice top of the line Klipsch 15 inch subwoofer. It sits under the console where it makes an excellent footstool.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  5. #5
    Valerie Plame's peroxide Hank William's Chauffeur
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    Default Re: monitoring over different speakers

    Its always tricky to know whats best cos I might never have known how much better it could be until I heard the VXT's thats my limited studio experience though.

    However I am sure that some of the best speakers out there would make the VXTs sound just as bad.

    I am not sure Otek f you have had the chance to listen to loads of speakers and come to a conclusion but I bet thats the case, for me I have gone of reviews etc, it wasn't till recently I went to listen to the speakers to compare.

    I know that good mixing isnt just about kit, but I also know that listening to the available kit helps you realise how a mix should translate onto different systems.


    I am getting particular now I know it!
    SD

    --------

    "If yer still fucking around with it after 90 seconds, then you're gonna be fucking around with it for at least another 90 minutes... and things are not necessarily gonna be getting much better".
  6. #6
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    Default Re: monitoring over different speakers

    I am not sure Otek f you have had the chance to listen to loads of speakers and come to a conclusion but I bet thats the case
    I have, but in this case I just went by what YOU said, namely that those speakers you mentioned have too much bass for your preferences.

    The other alternative you mentioned was a subwoofer, which in my experience very rarely tells you the truth about the low end.

    Again, you are looking for something that will inform your mix decisions in a good way. I am not making any suggestions as to what that might be, but the alternatives you presented were both kind of disagreeable - one of them even by your own admittance.


    otek
    "Tube color is not the 'thing'. Why would the most linear amplifying device have a color?" - Jonte Knif
  7. #7
    Valerie Plame's peroxide Hank William's Chauffeur
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    Default Re: monitoring over different speakers

    I did a quick mix on the VXT's (did use the rokits a bit) I think however I need more time because I am used to pushing the bass up on the KRK's and overcompinsating I ended up not trusting the VXT's and then in the car.. BOOM loadsa bass.

    So now I got to learn to trust the VXT's. Don't get me wrong they are so much better than the rokits, I just don't know whether its even worth keeping the rokits.


    But as you say don't set yourself up to fail, the big problem here is in music you tend to fail first then backtrack to find out why. In this case I knew it was the rokit 8's. I suppose though its about knowing what truth the rokits have and using that to assist in my mixing (if any truth can be found).

    I have tried to stay away away from spending money. I started using a presonus firestudio on loan whilst my Apogee Duet is being repaired. To be honest it might not sound as good but I don't really find it a problem as such. I think I should have spent more money on the speakers in the first place - the sound card really is not a major player in the chain compaired to monitors/mics/pre amps etc. Not saying its not important - just not as critical.


    So yea I would love to get my room treated professionally I think, I am beginning to realise just how important it is.
    SD

    --------

    "If yer still fucking around with it after 90 seconds, then you're gonna be fucking around with it for at least another 90 minutes... and things are not necessarily gonna be getting much better".
  8. #8
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    Default Re: monitoring over different speakers

    I just don't know whether its even worth keeping the rokits.
    Why would you want to keep something that you know for a fact is not informing your mix decisions?

    in music you tend to fail first then backtrack to find out why.
    In everything. You need to discover there is a problem before you can do anything about it.

    the sound card really is not a major player in the chain compaired to monitors/mics/pre amps etc.
    Compared to monitors and mics, maybe. But I would probably get a better sound card (meaning, converters) before getting new mic preamps.


    otek
    "Tube color is not the 'thing'. Why would the most linear amplifying device have a color?" - Jonte Knif
  9. #9
    Voice like Marcel Marceau Left handed polo player...not good.
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    Default Re: monitoring over different speakers

    The thought process of using a different sets of speakers to "make up for" another systems shortcomings (whatever they may be) sounds kinda flawed to me. I'd pick the best monitors that I can afford as my mains, but I won't deliberately choose a "poor" system as my secondaries. I'd still get monitors that tell me as much as truthfully possible but perhaps with a different "shade"
  10. #10
    Valerie Plame's peroxide Hank William's Chauffeur
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    Default Re: monitoring over different speakers

    hmm maybe i should just build a studio in my volvo
    SD

    --------

    "If yer still fucking around with it after 90 seconds, then you're gonna be fucking around with it for at least another 90 minutes... and things are not necessarily gonna be getting much better".
  11. #11
    Owns and wears an Elvis jumpsuit Owns a kick-start dildo
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    Default Re: monitoring over different speakers

    Volvo studio...

    Sub Woofers are tricky. Built myself one using the frequency response plot of my monitors as a guide. By itself it sounds like a real ineffective speaker, definitely no good for home cinema use, but with my monitors it just tickles the spot that is missing at the low end. It is a huge box, 6th order design with two 12" woofer drivers, facing each other to form a single driver. The ports exit close to the center on my mix room, giving it the smoothest response possible in my room.

    The best thing about it, is that you can not detect it working, until you turn it off. Sound seems to come entirely from the Monitors, bass and all.

    But did I mention the thing is huge? Not something you would get for sale at your local gear shop... but a nice project for an Idle weekend
  12. #12
    Valerie Plame's peroxide Hank William's Chauffeur
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    Default Re: monitoring over different speakers

    Volvo studio...

    Sub Woofers are tricky. Built myself one using the frequency response plot of my monitors as a guide. By itself it sounds like a real ineffective speaker, definitely no good for home cinema use, but with my monitors it just tickles the spot that is missing at the low end. It is a huge box, 6th order design with two 12" woofer drivers, facing each other to form a single driver. The ports exit close to the center on my mix room, giving it the smoothest response possible in my room.

    The best thing about it, is that you can not detect it working, until you turn it off. Sound seems to come entirely from the Monitors, bass and all.

    But did I mention the thing is huge? Not something you would get for sale at your local gear shop... but a nice project for an Idle weekend
    Is it more for emotional creativity to have a sub or does it seriously help mix (possibly part of the same thing of course).

    I often wonder if it would just mislead me more I listen to mixes on the 4" cones and I still notice plenty of bass information you just dont feel it like you do on the 8" cones of my bigger speakers.
    SD

    --------

    "If yer still fucking around with it after 90 seconds, then you're gonna be fucking around with it for at least another 90 minutes... and things are not necessarily gonna be getting much better".
  13. #13
    President of local Trekkie club. Reprobate
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    Default Re: monitoring over different speakers

    I work to the maxim that subs are for checking subs. If the music doesn't move you on regular speakers, then you're screwed IMHO.

    The only time I hear subs is in a club.
    Cheers,

    Paulie.
  14. #14
    Owns and wears an Elvis jumpsuit Owns a kick-start dildo
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    Default Re: monitoring over different speakers

    I work to the maxim that subs are for checking subs. If the music doesn't move you on regular speakers, then you're screwed IMHO.

    The only time I hear subs is in a club.
    This...

    I only use the sub to check the whole after the mix. Most of the time my sub just sits quietly in my mix room, doubling as a drinks table. Once did a mix that sounded good on my monitors, only to wipe the egg off my face at my client's place as a low frequency rumble (possibly the AC in the live venue) ruined the track.
    Last edited by qharley; November 2nd, 2010 at 02:51 PM.
  15. #15
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    Default Re: monitoring over different speakers

    Is it more for emotional creativity to have a sub or does it seriously help mix
    This is what I've been trying to get across.

    A subwoofer is very hard to set up so that it gives consistent bass response in a listening environment. Thus, the odds that it will properly inform your mix decisions are not particularly high.


    otek
    "Tube color is not the 'thing'. Why would the most linear amplifying device have a color?" - Jonte Knif
  16. #16
    Valerie Plame's peroxide Hank William's Chauffeur
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    Default Re: monitoring over different speakers

    This is what I've been trying to get across.

    A subwoofer is very hard to set up so that it gives consistent bass response in a listening environment. Thus, the odds that it will properly inform your mix decisions are not particularly high.


    otek
    ok thanks otek I understand now.. ill move swiftly on..
    SD

    --------

    "If yer still fucking around with it after 90 seconds, then you're gonna be fucking around with it for at least another 90 minutes... and things are not necessarily gonna be getting much better".
  17. #17
    Middle Handicapper...short game needs work Real purdy mouth
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    Default Re: monitoring over different speakers

    Not to undermine the cupped crusader's words of wisdom, but in an environment/room that is indeed flat in its response is where you actually "need" a subwoofer... and your typical small room/bedroom studio isn't what I would qualify as a conducive choice location.

    UNLESS....you have enough trapping, diffusion and have an accurate plot of the room response that indicates that you need a subwoofer.

    Small rooms (sub 3000 cu ft) suffer greatly from excessive low frequency build up... and the LF buildup gets exponentially worse as the room volume and dimensions decrease.

    So, IMNSHO, unless your room is approaching the 3000 cu ft volume, you'll only hurt you ability to create a translatable mix with a subwoofer in the room during the actual mix process.

    If you want to double check a FINAL mix to see how much gas is in the ass, then sure, use one. Otherwise... fergedaboudit.
  18. #18
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    Default Re: monitoring over different speakers

    Not to undermine the cupped crusader's words of wisdom...
    In what I can infer from your post, you didn't.

    And even IF a larger room with a flat response might warrant a subwoofer, I would much prefer to simply install larger monitors, as even in a flat room, many of the problems inherent to a subwoofer will still be relevant.


    otek
    "Tube color is not the 'thing'. Why would the most linear amplifying device have a color?" - Jonte Knif
  19. #19
    Middle Handicapper...short game needs work Real purdy mouth
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    Default Re: monitoring over different speakers

    In what I can infer from your post, you didn't.

    And even IF a larger room with a flat response might warrant a subwoofer, I would much prefer to simply install larger monitors, as even in a flat room, many of the problems inherent to a subwoofer will still be relevant.


    otek
    AMEN!!


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  20. #20
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    Default Re: monitoring over different speakers

    Subwoofers, to me, are meant to be a cost-effective solution to extend the low end in small-to-mid-size systems.

    But I have yet to hear ONE subwoofer that actually sounded even close to a pair of larger monitors with comparable frequency range.


    otek
    "Tube color is not the 'thing'. Why would the most linear amplifying device have a color?" - Jonte Knif

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