Thread: Ethan .... still taking shots at Mixie...

Results 61 to 80 of 254

  1. #61
    Garden variety weasel...has ripped flesh. Studied for urine test
    Join Date May 2009
    Posts 523
    Rep Power 536870996

    Default Re: Ethan .... still taking shots at Mixie...

    Dr. Richard Heyser, a research engineer at Cal Tech's JPL Laboratory, His work silenced this nonsense for a decade or so but since he passed away in 1987 the "measures perfect=sounds perfect" B.S. has been creeping back out of the woodwork. Heyser, incidentally, is the father of modern acoustical measurement.
    Funny you should mention Dr. Heyser - that's what put me on the path of fear and loathing of Mr. Winer (well, actually it was the Bella Abzug glasses and Fluffy The Cat that sowed the initial seeds of doubt). I had paraphrased something that Dr. Heyser had said (supported by the real-world experience of John La Grou) and Ethan dismissed it and me somewhat rudely after which, I made it a point to stop visiting gearslutz and serendipitously found my way here.

    And as much as I try to be gracious and understanding of those who have apparently lost at genetic roulette, I find the ongoing verbal pummeling he has taken at the very capable hands of Mixerman; JJ; Weedy; Dwoz; Aardvark; John Eppstein (my brother in Harvey Brooks); yourself . . . well, everybody . . . to be most vindicating and I'll admit, awfully gratifying. But then, Mr. Winer does seem to inspire affliction. On the other hand, it was his affable demeanor and sage council on audio measurement and acoustic treatment that inspired me to seek out the expertise and products of Glenn Kuras and GIK Acoustics - so I owe him a debt of gratitude there...

    In the meantime, let me leave you all with some quotes by the venerable Dr. Heyser:

    "Nature does not solve equations."

    "At the present state of sound reproduction technology, the audio engineer shares the professional goal of a magician."

    "The effect that modern sound reproduction strives to achieve is the creation of an acceptable illusion in the mind of the listener."

    "If we wish to understand how to 'measure' what we 'hear,' then we must deal with subjective perception and the illusion of sound."

    "The actual sound field in a listening environment is not identical to the sound field which we may perceive..."

    "One of the worst-kept secrets in audio engineering is that what we hear does not always correlate with what we measure."

    "Those whose principal professional involvement is based on the listening experience tend to develop a subjective viewpoint with value judgments seldom related to instrumental measurement."

    "One of the most belittling experiences is to deride the 'black art' of a craftsman who gets consistent results by a certain ritual which he cannot explain and then to discover that his actions in fact held a deeper technical significance than we understood at that time from our simplified model."

    "If we measure the frequency response of a system, and do it correctly, then we know everything about the response of that system. We have all the technical information needed to describe how that system will 'sound.' But the information we have is not in a system of coordinates that will be recognizable by a subjectively oriented listener...That is the root cause of the continuing fight between subjective and objective audio. It is not that either is more correct than the other...rather it is due to the fact they do not speak the same language."

    "The next time you hear an argument between a technologist and golden ear about the audibility of certain types of distortion...is it possible they do not agree because each have [sic] a view through a different window?"

    "You out there, Golden Ears, the person who couldn't care less about present technical measurements but thinks of sound as a holistic experience. You're right, you know."


    The ManRoom
  2. #62
    Has Many Personal Intergritys Expensive Boat Anchor
    Join Date Nov 2006
    Location New York
    Posts 10,216
    Rep Power 536871350

    Default Re: Ethan .... still taking shots at Mixie...

    Funny... after which, I made it a point to stop visiting gearslutz and serendipitously found my way here.
    which is really the most useful takeaway

    but those are all great quotes

    (and two quotes equal a half gallon)
  3. #63
    Court of The Crimson King of The Road Bought Bre-X high... still holding hope
    Join Date Nov 2006
    Location on a big ball flying through space
    Posts 4,576
    Rep Power 536871162

    Default Re: Ethan .... still taking shots at Mixie...

    Y'know what?

    I may have figured this out...and others possibly have too...

    Ethan gets off on the fact that others are talking about him.

    He wanders into a forum, posts something inflammatory/ridiculous, and then derives pleasure from the pages of posts that follow...like here.
    Bullseye.

    In my opinion, anyway.

    If my memory isn't failing, I think I pointed this out to MM some time back when whatever squabble was going on.

    I'm sure the psychologists/behavioural scientists have a name for it...
    Yeah. They call it Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

    You want to really fix his little red wagon?

    Stop talking about him. Everywhere. Anywhere. Now.
    Bullseye again. The whole enchilada.

    Although I can offer a quick thought/observation on this, based on way more experience than I would ever want anyone to have, in dealing with this kind of thing with someone (family).

    One aspect of this is that for them, the absolute worst horror/evil/wrong is.... nobody is paying attention to me! The center of attention is not ME!

    The response to being ignored, or even not being the absolute center of attention, is to double up on whatever the fuck it is until they ARE, or to wind people up with the most trivial pointless fucking melodrama.... like... e.g. ...getting a big raging drama going about a fucking web forum signature block.


    JLE
    "A machine is only as effective as its user"-Wilbur Wright

    "I've suffered for my music, and now it's your turn"-Neil Innes

    "I am amazed every single day how so many think that you have to constantly DO things to engineer properly. In fact, you do as little as possible, and then only the things required. The trick is in knowing what is actually required."-Terry Manning

    "WE'RE ALL VILLAGE IDIOTS AT ONE POINT OR ANOTHER. "-der Schlippermensch

    Facebook me!
    blah, blah, blah
  4. #64
    Garden variety weasel...has ripped flesh. Studied for urine test
    Join Date May 2009
    Posts 523
    Rep Power 536870996

    Default Re: Ethan .... still taking shots at Mixie...

    which is really the most useful takeaway

    Tru dat!! (ooh, I'm never saying that again . . .)

    And yes, the education and insights I've received here far exceed anything I've obtained elsewhere. I'm also quite grateful to be accepted among such illustrious company.

    The ManRoom
  5. #65
    Join Date Apr 2010
    Location Cork, Ireland.
    Posts 838
    Rep Power 0

    Default Re: Ethan .... still taking shots at Mixie...

    but those are all great quotes
    +1.
    "Facts, not opinions" David Kirkaldy.
    Ultimate Casio CZ for Kontakt
    My Music
  6. #66
    Join Date Nov 2006
    Location West Chester, Ohio
    Posts 1,561
    Rep Power 536871062

    Default Re: Ethan .... still taking shots at Mixie...

    I guess I've known for some time the need to control for bias and others things when measuring anything related to people. It really got driven home many years ago as the wife was working on her PhD in experimental pysch. She used me as one of the subjects in a test. Just a workload task with different sized lines on a screen, and she put people in soundproof booth, with controlled lighting, had to take from them any watches, phones. Anything that may distract, or be different betwwen subjects.

    At the end of the hour long test iwas worn out. And she only had about 100 subjects the run before she could do all the stats to see if the experiment worked.

    To think one person can sit in front of two different audio devices and compare them at very fine levels of detail without controling for other issues, is plain stupid.
    Tori's Alibi

    CAPE III - Team Galactic
    CAPE IV - Team Pantheon
    CAPE V - Team Elemental & Team Milk Carton
    CAPE VI - Team Grapestomper
    CAPE VII - Team Altitude
  7. #67
    Join Date Nov 2006
    Posts 6,898
    Rep Power 2500000000

    Default Re: Ethan .... still taking shots at Mixie...

    Selfgooglophile.

    Mac
    .

    I think that would be "autogooglephile"
    "...but ma, audio engineering IS gainful employment!..."

    "...If I wuz at that club where Miles played one note I would have bounced ONE BOTTLE off his shiny fucking coconut. What? He's Phil Glass now?..." -Slipperman

    "...never attribute to magic, that which can be explained by conspiracy."
  8. #68
    Let it Be Still My Broken Heart Short-rope candidate
    Join Date Jul 2008
    Location Mars Colony
    Posts 5,049
    Rep Power 536871158

    Default Re: Ethan .... still taking shots at Mixie...

    I'm assuming Ethan is college educated, so I'd be interested to know what his degree actually is in. Engineering of some kind?
    Hating Nickelback is the new liking Nickelback.

    ------------

    Current status: Ignoring everybody on Facebook.
  9. #69
    Join Date Nov 2006
    Location Madame de Pompadours boudoir
    Posts 1,832
    Rep Power 536871071

    Default Re: Ethan .... still taking shots at Mixie...

    I could give a shit. It's all a bunch of dick wagging and to be honest I'd rather be busy blowing smoke rings at the ceiling after tagging a Reebok wearing career woman than arguing with a turtlenecker.

    To each his own and to quote Dorothy Parker: "I'm too fucking busy and vice versa."


    Make audio not over turn rocks to uncover worms.
    The Comte


    "all is indecipherable to him who is not prepared; he can see nothing, read nothing in the interior..."
  10. #70
    Join Date Nov 2006
    Posts 3,549
    Rep Power 2500000000

    Default Re: Ethan .... still taking shots at Mixie...


    Make audio not over turn rocks to uncover worms.
    No! No! No!

    Make music!


    THEN turn over rocks to uncover worms in your spare time.

    Balance Comte. You need balance!

    Enjoy,

    Mixerman
    Zen and the Art of Recording - NOW AVAILABLE!





  11. #71
    Rep point slut. Worked with toxic chemicals...can you tell?
    Join Date Nov 2006
    Posts 66
    Rep Power 536871012

    Default Re: Ethan .... still taking shots at Mixie...

    No, you guys got it all wrong. There's a much easier way to get the worms out from under the rock. To wit:

    1.) Get a two-wire extension cord.
    2.) Cut off the female end.
    3.) Separate the two wires so you have about 3' length on each separated wire.
    4.) Strip a few inches of insulation off the end of each wire.
    5.) Wrap the exposed copper around a long nail on the "head" end. [For the real tech heads you can solder this.]
    6.) Push one nail into the ground on one side of the rock. [Slightly damp dirt works best so you might need to water a bit about an hour before doing this.]
    7.) Push the other nail into the ground on the other side of the rock.
    8.) There should be at least a couple of feet between the nails.
    9.) Plug in the extension cord.
    10.) Retire to the house and make a martini.
    11.) Come out, unplug the extension cord, and retrieve the worms that have crawled out from under the rock.

    Give a man a worm and he can catch one fish. Teach a man to worm and he can catch a school.

    Enjoy!

    Cheers,
    --
    Don
  12. #72
    once played a seventh chord in a folk song Last gold dollar is gone
    Join Date Apr 2007
    Location Quincy MA
    Posts 170
    Rep Power 234881158

    Default Re: Ethan .... still taking shots at Mixie...


    Give a man a worm and he can catch one fish. Teach a man to worm and he can catch a school.

    Enjoy!

    Cheers,
    --
    Don
    Don,

    We are now are fishing on the pond, bloop - bloop goes the bobber!

    Anyway - what about;

    Give a man, AUDIO and he can catch one SOUND. Teach a man to BE AN ENGINEER and he can catch a BAND PLAYING MUSIC.
    Adam J. Brass

    DSPDoctor

    adam@dspdoctor.com
    Originally Posted by Steve Gursky though Mixerman's Dreams
    There is no latency in heaven
    "Any opinions above are worth exactly what you paid for them."
    Anonymous

    "If I find 10,000 ways something won't work, I haven't failed. I am not discouraged, because every wrong attempt discarded is another step forward.
    Thomas Edison
  13. #73
    Join Date Sep 2009
    Location Quake City
    Posts 10,459
    Rep Power 513229988

    Default Re: Ethan .... still taking shots at Mixie...

    The problem with the ABX mafia from the very beginning has been absolutely no expertise in psychoacoustics or human perception. They discovered that it is easy to demonstrate expectation bias and have been beating the unsuspecting over the head with that demonstration for 4 decades as an exercise in eighth grade one-up-manship.

    Dr. Richard Heyser, a research engineer at Cal Tech's JPL Laboratory, produced a circuit that measured perfectly on an Audio Precision rig but sounded horrendously distorted to the ear. His work silenced this nonsense for a decade or so but since he passed away in 1987 the "measures perfect=sounds perfect" B.S. has been creeping back out of the woodwork. Heyser, incidentally, is the father of modern acoustical measurement.
    Bob, do you know where we might find a copy of this circuit?
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  14. #74
    Voice like Marcel Marceau Spend years studying Twisted Sister's chord structure
    Join Date Mar 2008
    Posts 286
    Rep Power 398838572

    Default Re: Ethan .... still taking shots at Mixie...

    Bob, do you know where we might find a copy of this circuit?
    Ethan's...

    "If you don't care, either you are an effete snob or they are worthless pieces of crap (genre withstanding)". - Comte de St Germain

    "... records sounded better when musicians knew how to get their dicks hard all at once and keep them that way for three fucking minutes while the tape rolled". - bobzilla77
  15. #75
    Join Date Nov 2006
    Location ██████████
    Posts 6,404
    Rep Power 402653929

    Default Re: Ethan .... still taking shots at Mixie...

    Bob, do you know where we might find a copy of this circuit?
    Creative Labs.

    Gearwire.com Drum Mixing Tutorial: The best way of course is an oscilloscope... but, we don't have that, we don't have that here, so we have to use our ears...
  16. #76
    Join Date Nov 2006
    Location Songwriter Gulch
    Posts 9,781
    Rep Power 536871336

    Default Re: Ethan .... still taking shots at Mixie...

    Bob, do you know where we might find a copy of this circuit?
    It's buried somewhere in the paid section of the AES archive. I don't remember if it was published in the Journal or in a convention paper.
    Bob's room 615 562-4346
    Georgetown Masters 615 254-3233
    Interview
    Artists are the gatekeepers of truth!- Paul Robeson
  17. #77
    Join Date Nov 2006
    Posts 3,549
    Rep Power 2500000000

    Default Re: Ethan .... still taking shots at Mixie...

    No, you guys got it all wrong. There's a much easier way to get the worms out from under the rock. To wit:

    1.) Get a two-wire extension cord.
    2.) Cut off the female end.
    3.) Separate the two wires so you have about 3' length on each separated wire.
    4.) Strip a few inches of insulation off the end of each wire.
    5.) Wrap the exposed copper around a long nail on the "head" end. [For the real tech heads you can solder this.]
    6.) Push one nail into the ground on one side of the rock. [Slightly damp dirt works best so you might need to water a bit about an hour before doing this.]
    7.) Push the other nail into the ground on the other side of the rock.
    8.) There should be at least a couple of feet between the nails.
    9.) Plug in the extension cord.
    10.) Retire to the house and make a martini.
    11.) Come out, unplug the extension cord, and retrieve the worms that have crawled out from under the rock.

    Give a man a worm and he can catch one fish. Teach a man to worm and he can catch a school.

    Enjoy!

    Cheers,
    --
    Don
    Fuck! I got 9 and 6 backwards!

    Enjoy,

    Mixerman
    Zen and the Art of Recording - NOW AVAILABLE!





  18. #78
    Join Date Sep 2009
    Location Quake City
    Posts 10,459
    Rep Power 513229988

    Default Re: Ethan .... still taking shots at Mixie...

    I've been exchanging PMs with Ethan at Gearslutz and he has invited me to attend another one of his "debunking" panels that he is planning for next year's New York AES convention - his words were "so you can attend and heckle me from the cheap seats."

    Sadly, I will almost certainly not be able to attend due to financial reasons, but perhaps some of you who are closer to the city might want to attend as my proxies?
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  19. #79
    Join Date Sep 2009
    Location Quake City
    Posts 10,459
    Rep Power 513229988

    Default Re: Ethan .... still taking shots at Mixie...

    No! No! No!

    Make music!


    THEN turn over rocks to uncover worms in your spare time.

    Balance Comte. You need balance!

    Enjoy,

    Mixerman
    Yep! You need the worms so you can go fission!
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  20. #80
    Join Date Sep 2009
    Location Quake City
    Posts 10,459
    Rep Power 513229988

    Default Re: Ethan .... still taking shots at Mixie...

    No, you guys got it all wrong. There's a much easier way to get the worms out from under the rock. To wit:

    1.) Get a two-wire extension cord.
    2.) Cut off the female end.
    3.) Separate the two wires so you have about 3' length on each separated wire.
    4.) Strip a few inches of insulation off the end of each wire.
    5.) Wrap the exposed copper around a long nail on the "head" end. [For the real tech heads you can solder this.]
    6.) Push one nail into the ground on one side of the rock. [Slightly damp dirt works best so you might need to water a bit about an hour before doing this.]
    7.) Push the other nail into the ground on the other side of the rock.
    8.) There should be at least a couple of feet between the nails.
    9.) Plug in the extension cord.
    10.) Retire to the house and make a martini.
    11.) Come out, unplug the extension cord, and retrieve the worms that have crawled out from under the rock.

    Give a man a worm and he can catch one fish. Teach a man to worm and he can catch a school.

    Enjoy!

    Cheers,
    --
    Don
    After you get the worms you can go trolling......
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????