Thread: New excellent cheap Attenuator

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  1. #21
    Tainted Love Potion Number Nine Mallory's missing camera
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    Default Re: New excellent cheap Attenuator

    Sure, I understand that. Thing is - 99% of times, the guitar sound that is heard out of wedge monitors and FOH comes from a close mic 1 inch away from one of the 4 12" speakers. Couldn't a 1x12" cabinet, with a speaker rated to say 25 or 30w, fed from a cranked low power amp serve the same purpose?
    The whole cab is generating tone, though, particularly in a sealed back. The mic is going to pick up some of those extra low mid and bass frequencies even if it is pointed right at one of the cones.
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  2. #22
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    Default Re: New excellent cheap Attenuator

    Sure, I understand that. Thing is - 99% of times, the guitar sound that is heard out of wedge monitors and FOH comes from a close mic 1 inch away from one of the 4 12" speakers. Couldn't a 1x12" cabinet, with a speaker rated to say 25 or 30w, fed from a cranked low power amp serve the same purpose?

    I'm all for great tone, but at a lower volume. It works better for everyone.
    Sort of, but you run into two problems with 20-30 watt amps. First, they are usually going to be pretty bright, because it takes so much more power to reproduce low end frequencies than high (see gonzo's comments above). You can voice things with more bass by using different values for coupling caps, pots, bypass caps, etc. (please note, I said different VALUES, not different brands!), but that will tend towards a looser, kind of floppy base. If you want that really strong, tight bass, you probably need a bigger amp. A smaller amp can still be great, just different. Also, a 30 watt amp can still be painfully loud!



    I first heard about this stuff when EVH was touting his "brown" sound. Well, he could make most anything sound good, but I think this method of attaining tone was misguided at best. Of course, many experimented with it because he endorsed it. I say swap the amp for one with a decent preamp gain and you get far better tone at low volume. [shrug]

    Preamp distortion sucks.

    No, I'm not opinionated at all, why do you ask?

    Besides, you can't get all that great of tone if you don't move the air.


    Actually, I believe EVH used Variacs - a completely different thing.

    A Variac will allow you to alter the voltage going into the amp, causing the tubes to distort at lower levels.
    He uses both, and has for a very long time. He was one of the really early guys to go the Bob Bradshaw rout. His "tone" amp* was the first thing, and he went through it with no effects (maybe his phase 90, nothing else). He then took an output from a load box (an attenuator that doesn't send anything to a speaker), and sent that to his Echoplex, etc, which was amplified by other amps. That was his live rig, but he apparently used it in the studio a lot too. Not the first couple of albums, I'm sure.


    Gabriel


    *Lots of rumors out there about that one, including some BS story that he pulled one (and only one) of the four power tubes - but he DID use a Variac, which is really bad for your amp, and is to be avoided. The same effect can be recreated safely by any competent amp tech without lowering the heater voltage, which is really not good for the tubes. What is certain is it was a 100 watt Marshall plexi which had been modded, presumably to cascade the two gain stages that are normally in parallel). I don't remember the model, because I don't care that much anymore. I sure did when I was a kid, but that's a long time ago now!
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  3. #23
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    Default Re: New excellent cheap Attenuator

    EVH didn't use an attenuator.

    He used a VARIAC, which is a variable autotransformer used on the power line. He used to feed his amps 100 VAC instead of 120 VAC, simulating the conditions of a power brownout - hence the "brown sound" moniker. This also simulates somewhat the power supply voltages of the older pre-CBS presence control Fender amps, which had significantly lower B+ voltage.
    In his live rig that he was using through most of the eighties and nineties, and in his current rig, he was/is using a Bob Bradshaw load box, and the main amp drives the power amps for his other amps. That isn't particularly important to his classic sound - the first couple records before he got the Bradshaw rig - but he certainly did use a load box, which is essentially an attenuator being used in the place of a speaker cabinet. While he has always tried to hide the "secret" to his sound, I've seen more than one interview with him saying he used the same rig in the studio as he did live.

    The load box is the basis of pretty much every rig Bob Bradshaw ever made - what he calls a clean/wet system. You run the guitar straight into the main amp - maybe a fuzz box or a wha in front, but basically clean. You take the output of that amp into a load box, and use the line output from the load box to drive a power amp, your time based effects, etc. Those get run in parallel, and drive one or more other amps, in stereo, or not, as the situation requires. You can set your line level to +4dBV, use really nice studio processors, and not effect the load on either your guitar, the input of the amp, nor the load on the output of the amp.

    The principle is that all this helps to maintain the dynamics and control of the guitar/amp intact while allowing you to have all the stupidly overdone guitar effects that the eighties were known for. Have your chorus, and eat your distortion too; so to speak. EVH was one of the first people for whom Bradshaw ever built one of these rigs, if not the first.

    Now, the whole point behind the load box is that it doesn't effect the sound (not really true, but that was the theory, so let's pretend), so it certainly isn't important to EVH's tone, but he did and does use one. And really, his recorded sound was probably best before he started using it, though not before he started using the Variac, so your choice which one matters, but I'd say the Variac.


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  4. #24
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    Default Re: New excellent cheap Attenuator

    I've read so much conflicting information about EVH's rigs in the 70's. I'd personally only trust it coming from him personally. And, shit, he may not even remember.

    I've read someone on another forum asserting that they talked to Jose Arredondo personally and he said Eddie didn't have him mod the Plexi(s) for the first album, he only used some kind of simple (MXR?) preamp pedal and the Variac.
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  5. #25
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    Default Re: New excellent cheap Attenuator

    A load box and an attenuator are not the same thing. They are somewhat similar but not the same.

    A load box, AKA "dummy load" in used IN PLACE of the speaker to take the power output of the amp, originally while testing and servicing tube amps.


    Yeah, I get the difference. Heck, I've got both. Still, they are reasonably similar in effect on the tone.


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  6. #26
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    Default Re: New excellent cheap Attenuator

    Actually, I believe EVH used Variacs - a completely different thing.

    A Variac will allow you to alter the voltage going into the amp, causing the tubes to distort at lower levels.
    Oh man, my ignorance is showing again! I thought a Variac and an attenuator were the same thing.

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  7. #27
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    Default Re: New excellent cheap Attenuator

    One works on the wall outlet, one works on the speaker output, so they are definitely a different beast.
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    Default Re: New excellent cheap Attenuator

    Hi All
    I was wondering what your thoughts are regarding attenuators as of late. There seems to be a lot more available on the market these days and so I am interested in your experiences and preferences of brands and technologies.
    I recently purchased a Laney VH100R head with a Marshall 100 year anniversary 4 x 12 cabinet. I also have a Trace Elliot V8 400 watt bass head which I had cut down to 200 watts.
    I am looking to buy an attenuator which could suit both amps,I fear the 200 watt bass amp might be something of an issue as most reasonably priced attenuators handle up to around 150 watts only.
    I have read about the recent Jet City Jettenuator designed by Mr.Saldano for under $300 and the Tone King Ironman $ 850.

    At the moment Im only looking to spend around $300 but since this is the sort of thing that I would hopefully only buy once, I wouldnt mind waiting until more funds are available to make a better choice.

    A local tech of mine builds his own which can apparently handle 200 watt amps but lacks the feature of a line out and Im not yet sure what approach he uses.He sells them for around $250 and also builds a line out / headphone type for $150.Im waiting for him to let me know if he can include a line out in his usual design and also to get some specs.

    I understand that the Ted Weber designs are somewhat different to a lot of the more common designs.Anyone else had some recent experience with these?

    The idea is to only use the rigs in my ever developing studio as i am not a guitarist nor a bassist and so its not about gigs. The big factor is loudness control.At the moment my studio is a 1 room scenario so being able to crank the power sections of the amps and send a line out to the DAW and into a speaker emulator clownfucker would be an option Id like to pursue so as to record a band without any bleed from amps for example. Im not sure if any of these units can actually mute a speaker or operate without a speaker.I also understand a little about the variable impedance of a moving speaker.
    I want to try avoid the conversation of cabinet / amplifier interaction and moving air to get the tone if possible,I know thats all important too.
    About the loudness situation, when recording just the guitars I think thats obvious,the shits too loud with the master volume on 2!
    Anyway I would love to hear what you thoughts are on attenuators in general and what new products are really cooking and which are not.

    This Weber kit really looks like the business,I think my answers are all in this link after all!

    http://www.tedweber.com/atten.htm

    Thanks
    Last edited by Albinoman; January 15th, 2014 at 10:37 PM.
  9. #29
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    Default Re: New excellent cheap Attenuator

    Why not get some amps that are a more appropriate size for your studio?

    And I don't really understand why you'd want to attenuate the bass amp at all.
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    Default Re: New excellent cheap Attenuator

    Even something like a tiny 12-Watt Fender Princeton can be driven to absolutely deafening levels, plus you won't get the sound of a larger amp/cabinet. I have a friend who had to customize his Z-Vex Nanohead because its roaring 1/2-Watt of tube power driving his 2x12" cabinet proved to be too much for apartment practice levels.

    The problem is, most attenuators also change the game radically, in that you will not have the same cabinet involvement when decreasing the output.

    In my book, there is really no perfect way around the physics.

    To answer Albinoman's question (and yes, I did bring up the cabinet/volume thing after all), the problem is really that I've heard very little in the way of truthful replication of the speaker part of the equation (regarding your suggestion of "clownfucking"). It's every bit as complex as the amp distortion itself, perhaps even more so. If you could combine the attenuator with some sort of isolation box for the speaker cabinet, you may be able to arrive at a reasonable compromise.


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  11. #31
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    Default Re: New excellent cheap Attenuator

    Whoa. Old thread!

    I recently finished recording a record using a Weber on an old Marshall(Plexi I think - Getting foggy).

    Hilariously, we ended up using so LITTLE of the Weber after twisting it around for a bit, we just took it off and ran the rig at horrendous volume.

    Had to back the mics off the amp more than I usually do as the diaphragms were getting HAMMERED.

    But once we DID: It really did sound remarkably BETTER WITHOUT the Weber to my ears(from the safety of the control room: The assistant was HATING HIS LIFE in front of the cabinet during the "mic sweeping process" - even WITH iso-headphones, HOHOHO).

    Sorry for the zero content post, but I just had to throw it out there.

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  12. #32
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    Default Re: New excellent cheap Attenuator

    I'm also curious to know the difference between stand-alone attenuators, and power-soakers built into amps these days, if anyone is informed. There's a good number of amps today that feature power-soaking controls for lower-volume playing-recording, and I wonder what the difference is between these and the aforementioned units (especially considering quite a few attenuators are as expensive as an amp head). Any info is appreciated!
  13. #33
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    Clown Re: New excellent cheap Attenuator

    An old thread indeed!Some relevant info worth resurrecting I guess.To answer John,I bought the Laney to help a friend out and he threw in the Marshall cab as an indefinite loan since we jam together anyway.It all cost me less than 500 dollars and with the hope of one day having a big bad studio like in the movies,i figured it was a good investment.I kinda feel like the Laney has a fair amount of versatility to it since its effectively a 4 channel amp and has an insert point and a not so terrible reverb. Apparently there's some voodoo one can do with the effects loops to be able to crank the master without the dangers of deafness etc.I'd love to torture an assistant and back the mics of but that's not my situation. John please tell me why you wouldn't attenuate the bass amp.Im thinking its more about preamp gain for bass as opposed to some power amp saturation? Granted the Trace has a killer distortion channel in it so maybe that's why? I've already cut her down to half power which is more than enough wattage, but please teach me ,I'm all ears and love to learn! That's also why I am looking into an attenuator for the Laney, I have not consciously experienced power amp saturation when getting a tone as its always too damn loud in my little room so I would love to learn and experience this since it seems to be the buzzword amongst guitarists. I'm neither looking to get the best sound on the planet and so the practicality of being able to cook a box of tubes with knobs during tracking and have no noise is what I'm looking for without going completely guitar rig ! Something I noticed about the Weber stuff is that you can in fact turn the attenuators all the way down and even unplug the cabinet and just use the line out like a true dummy! Another scenario might be to take the preamp line out during tracking and re amp it later through the power section and cabinet.Of course then sacrificing player ,amp,cabinet interaction in real time but again I'm not going for gold here,just the learning curve for now.The heavy music I am involved in is pretty obscure anyways and not major label fancy stuff! Where I do make my money is in the Afro pop fusion jungle reggae jazz beat! market and some of the players I work with are quite open to experimenting with stuff.
    I also have a lot of jam sessions in my room and again the Laney wouldn't go past 2 so I miss out on hearing this power amp saturation phenomenon there aswell.Again its largely about learning and experiencing so as to broaden my ears for when the day comes that I have a large enough room to rock out in.
    On the topic of cabinet interaction and moving some air,can anyone say at what spl, a weighted or whatever,from a meter or so away that this cabinet interaction would take place on average? What is a good volume for a 4 x 12 to be at to get past comb fuktering or what are the other elements to look to avoid or overcome? Apart from tearing through microphones of course.If this is in slippy's bible then kill me! And I will read it from my coffin.I actually have a real coffin in my spot which is going to make a killer cupboard real soon!
    Also is a loud amp only for loud music or does it suit blues or reggae in the same way without too much distortion of course?
    I feel like if I do make a purchase it looks as if I will go with a Weber thingy since the design seems to offer a bit more than the other brands out there and there pricing is great too.I also read somewhere that Faustine may have gone out of business anyone know if that's in fact the case?
    Thanks for your comments

    Al
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    Default Re: New excellent cheap Attenuator

    An old thread indeed!Some relevant info worth resurrecting I guess.To answer John,I bought the Laney to help a friend out and he threw in the Marshall cab as an indefinite loan since we jam together anyway.It all cost me less than 500 dollars and with the hope of one day having a big bad studio like in the movies,i figured it was a good investment.I kinda feel like the Laney has a fair amount of versatility to it since its effectively a 4 channel amp and has an insert point and a not so terrible reverb. Apparently there's some voodoo one can do with the effects loops to be able to crank the master without the dangers of deafness etc.I'd love to torture an assistant and back the mics of but that's not my situation.
    I'm not saying it's not a good amp or not a versatile amp but it sounds to me like it's not a good fit for your studio situation. If you have to use a power attenuator you lose the interaction of the amp and the speaker cabinet - the speakers won't be operating in their "sweet spot" with an attenuator.

    Slippy gets into this a bit in his classic missive on recording distorted guitars.

    Better to be using something of lower power with lower powered speakers that will do a better job of working together at the kind of levels that are practical for your situation.


    John please tell me why you wouldn't attenuate the bass amp.Im thinking its more about preamp gain for bass as opposed to some power amp saturation?
    Well, the Trace is a SOLID STATE AMP, innit? You don't want to be getting power amp distortion from a solid state power amp - it sounds terrible. In fact, you want your solid state power amp to be as clean as possible, and preferably at least 3 times the power of a tube bass amp if not more. You need a huge current reserve for it to sound decent at all and you don't want to get anywhere CLOSE to clipping. Solid state power amps don't saturate - they hard clip and it sounds terrible. Also blows speakers.,

    You know, "high tech" companies like Trace Elliot load their amps with all manner of "features" and bells and whistles to try to get around one basic fact - solid state amps generally aren't that great for bass. Not tone wise. They're superior in just about every "theoretical" way possible but tone isn't subject to abstract theory. They can be made to work OK on stage, especially for certain genres of music but in the studio a simple well designed tube amp of moderate power through 15" or 18" speakers will trump it pretty much every time and with a lot less fussing around. The classic studio bass amps are the Ampeg Portaflex B-15N (30 watts) and B-18N* (60 watts) and with them is pretty much plug in and go. You don't need parametric and graphic equalizers, built in compressors, and gimmick tube distortion stages to make the amp sound good. The Ampeg V4B (100 watts) is pretty good, too. The thing is, these amps don't need to be loud to sound good.


    Granted the Trace has a killer distortion channel in it so maybe that's why? I've already cut her down to half power which is more than enough wattage, but please teach me ,I'm all ears and love to learn!
    You don't want to cut down the output power of a solid state bass amp. It doesn't gain you anything. (see above).

    The reason the Trace even needs that distortion circuit is because solid state power amps DON'T SATURATE, they hard clip.

    That's also why I am looking into an attenuator for the Laney, I have not consciously experienced power amp saturation when getting a tone as its always too damn loud in my little room so I would love to learn and experience this since it seems to be the buzzword amongst guitarists. I'm neither looking to get the best sound on the planet and so the practicality of being able to cook a box of tubes with knobs during tracking and have no noise is what I'm looking for without going completely guitar rig ! Something I noticed about the Weber stuff is that you can in fact turn the attenuators all the way down and even unplug the cabinet and just use the line out like a true dummy!
    Yeah, but you lose the sound of the speaker. And guitar speakers are nonlinear devices and do not behave the same at lower levels as they do when being pushed.

    Another scenario might be to take the preamp line out during tracking and re amp it later through the power section and cabinet.Of course then sacrificing player ,amp,cabinet interaction in real time but again I'm not going for gold here,just the learning curve for now.
    urk.

    Do a search on "reamping" here and see what you find.

    The heavy music I am involved in is pretty obscure anyways and not major label fancy stuff! Where I do make my money is in the Afro pop fusion jungle reggae jazz beat! market and some of the players I work with are quite open to experimenting with stuff.
    I also have a lot of jam sessions in my room and again the Laney wouldn't go past 2 so I miss out on hearing this power amp saturation phenomenon there aswell.Again its largely about learning and experiencing so as to broaden my ears for when the day comes that I have a large enough room to rock out in.
    Do yourself a favor - invest in a couple of small guitar amps (a Fender Deluxe Reverb and a Marshall Class 5 would be a good place to start, but there's lots of other choices) and a modest tube bass amp. It'll give you more of what you're after with a lot less grief, time wasting, and general screwing around.

    On the topic of cabinet interaction and moving some air,can anyone say at what spl, a weighted or whatever,from a meter or so away that this cabinet interaction would take place on average?
    No. It depends on too many variables.

    What is a good volume for a 4 x 12 to be at to get past comb fuktering or what are the other elements to look to avoid or overcome?
    You have to understand - a 4x12 requires a certain minimum volume of air (room size) for it to really work properly. It also requires a certain minimum amount of power before the speakers really begin to "sing". That's why a lot of guitarists who use big stacks onstage often record with small, even tiny amps. My lead guitarist has a lovely Marshall 4x12 and 50 watt head from the early '70s that he frequently uses on stage. We NEVER record with it - it doesn't fit the room we have to work with.






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    Default Re: New excellent cheap Attenuator

    Thanks for that John.I do understand the solid state stuff enough to know not to go clipping the amps.This is the Trace Elliot amp I have.You may want to put some earplugs in quick! http://bassamps.blogspot.com/2006/06...ot-v8.html?m=1
    About the re amping story,I know it sucks.My approach is more about just doing it coz I can i guess,not about capturing the real deal necessarily. Its more for the sake of a tracking tone being somewhat closer to the real deal than just guitar rigging it.I know some of these attenuators also have speaker simulation outputs which I'm sure also suck in the grand scheme of things.
    I totally get that a 50 watt tube head in a 2 x 12 is plenty volume and that small amps often sound way better and are more practical. I have another Laney Lion heart with a 2 x 12 at my disposal but its limited in its clean sound as it breaks up pretty quick and has no master volume.It just so happens that I have this 100w beasty and its probably not going anywhere anytime soon.I may well look into trading it for the right tool for the job.
    Anyway I'm gonna fiddle with it all later today and see where I can get the master section before things start falling of shelves!
    Let me know what you think of the Trace,she's a beauty and I got here for under 200 bucks which is only like 5 goats and a few chickens over here!
    Thanks
    Al
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    Default Re: New excellent cheap Attenuator

    In response to Toonman, what amps out there have a power soaking feature in them? I would say that a half power switch might be more on the money,my Trace has one which was useful in cutting here down to only 4 of the KT88s instead of all 8!
    As far as i know power soaking would mean resistors after all the wattage and would probably change the tone more negatively than if the amp was only accessing half the tubes.I will ask my tech if he can put a half power switch in the Laney and maybe that would be a better option than some power soaking ,attenuation tom foolery.
  17. #37
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    Default Re: New excellent cheap Attenuator

    THD Univalve has a built in power soak with great features. Tastes like chicken.
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    Default Re: New excellent cheap Attenuator

    It seems my post was summarily ignored.

    I'll try one more time:

    I bought the Laney to help a friend out and he threw in the Marshall cab… less than 500 dollars
    Call me crazy, but that's a pretty damn good deal. The VH-100R is actually a fine amp, although I find that it takes quite a bit of knob twiddling to get it "in the zone".

    Im thinking its more about preamp gain for bass as opposed to some power amp saturation?
    As has been said earlier, there is no particular "for bass" alternate universe. There is the thing John laid out about transistor vs. tube power sections, but cabinet involvement (actually moving air, thereby affecting speakers and cabinet) is every bit as important regardless of the instrument.

    Another scenario might be to take the preamp line out during tracking and re amp it later through the power section and cabinet.Of course then sacrificing player ,amp,cabinet interaction in real time but again I'm not going for gold here,just the learning curve for now.
    Whether you're "going for gold" or not, setting yourself up with an inherently crippling and time-consuming scenario is NOT what I would recommend. I'd actually rather play the amp whisper-quiet and take my chances, than cave in to that "option".

    The heavy music I am involved in is pretty obscure anyways and not major label fancy stuff!
    All the MORE reason to be particular about my sound!

    On the topic of cabinet interaction and moving some air,can anyone say at what spl, a weighted or whatever,from a meter or so away that this cabinet interaction would take place on average?
    No. It's one of these "how long is a piece of string" questions. In part because it depends on the amp and cabinet, and in part because it's a gradual thing. Also, what works on one amp may be too much (or insufficient) on another.

    Here's a tip: Stand next to the cabinet and slowly turn it up. Put a hand on the cabinet and feel the vibrations. There's a gradual "shift" in the tactile sensation when the cabinet starts to really interact with the amp, and a gradual escalation of "oomph" as the power section starts getting more and more involved. You have to get past the "oh my god it's loud!" feeling and make an effort to listen behind the sheer loudness, to what the amp sounds like.

    What is a good volume for a 4 x 12 to be at to get past comb fuktering or what are the other elements to look to avoid or overcome?
    If "fuktering" is urban slang for "filtering" , then volume actually has very little to do with it. This is more about mic placement. Although obviously, your impression of the tone as picked up by the mic will change dramatically as you turn it up. That's the whole idea!

    I actually have a real coffin in my spot which is going to make a killer cupboard real soon!
    You might want to make it into the world's coolest isolation cabinet instead. The guitar tones on Fredrik Thordendal's solo record Sol Niger Within (1997) were all recorded with an LDC in an old wood chest, with a speaker mounted inside.



    Also is a loud amp only for loud music or does it suit blues or reggae in the same way without too much distortion of course?
    Genre matters not. Physics are physics. But you obviously do what you have to do to get a certain tone.

    I'm not saying it's not a good amp or not a versatile amp but it sounds to me like it's not a good fit for your studio situation.

    Better to be using something of lower power with lower powered speakers that will do a better job of working together at the kind of levels that are practical for your situation.
    Again, even a small tube amp is capable of putting out levels far beyond what is acceptable within the context of something like condo association noise regulations.

    a Fender Deluxe Reverb and a Marshall Class 5
    While they are both excellent amps, they are not on the same planet sonically as any larger amp I've heard - not to mention the fact that they go to absolute face-melting levels before offering pleasing distortion (although admittedly, the Marshall has built-in power scaling). So it would leave us back at square one - he still doesn't get the tone he wants, and it's still too loud.

    My approach is more about just doing it coz I can i guess,not about capturing the real deal necessarily.
    ….
    Its more for the sake of a tracking tone being somewhat closer to the real deal than just guitar rigging it.
    Bit of a catch-22 as you are still looking to capture a pleasing tone. Go ahead and "guitar-rig" all you want, but if you want to do it with a real amp, that means applying the proper physics. And therein, as they say, lies the rub.

    I know some of these attenuators also have speaker simulation outputs which I'm sure also suck in the grand scheme of things.
    That's what Slipperman was talking about above, even the specific make and model you were referring to. You should probably pay more attention to him, rather than knuckleheads like myself and John Eppstein.

    I would say that a half power switch might be more on the money
    About 98% of the "half power" switches I've come across give a less pleasing version of the same tone, at roughly the same volume. You have to remember that even ONE WATT of power into a modern speaker cabinet is enough to produce levels of right around 100 dB SPL.

    my Trace has one which was useful in cutting here down to only 4 of the KT88s instead of all 8!
    I don't know if I'm missing something glaringly obvious, but if there are K-88s in your Trace Elliott, then it's most certainly a TUBE amp. At least a tube power section (KT-88s are power tubes).


    otek
    "Tube color is not the 'thing'. Why would the most linear amplifying device have a color?" - Jonte Knif
  19. #39
    Plays in Winger cover band Enjoys scratching self too much
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    Default Re: New excellent cheap Attenuator

    In response to Toonman, what amps out there have a power soaking feature in them? I would say that a half power switch might be more on the money,my Trace has one which was useful in cutting here down to only 4 of the KT88s instead of all 8!
    As far as i know power soaking would mean resistors after all the wattage and would probably change the tone more negatively than if the amp was only accessing half the tubes.I will ask my tech if he can put a half power switch in the Laney and maybe that would be a better option than some power soaking ,attenuation tom foolery.
    There's several I've seen (can't remember most out of the top of my head... how convenient!), but let's take as an example the Suhr Corso. Looks like it actually has a power soak (unless power scaling is something totally different), and it costs slightly more than some of the attenuators mentioned in this thread. How come??
  20. #40
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    Default Re: New excellent cheap Attenuator

    Thanks for that John.I do understand the solid state stuff enough to know not to go clipping the amps.This is the Trace Elliot amp I have.You may want to put some earplugs in quick! http://bassamps.blogspot.com/2006/06...ot-v8.html?m=1
    About the re amping story,I know it sucks.My approach is more about just doing it coz I can i guess,not about capturing the real deal necessarily. Its more for the sake of a tracking tone being somewhat closer to the real deal than just guitar rigging it.I know some of these attenuators also have speaker simulation outputs which I'm sure also suck in the grand scheme of things.
    I totally get that a 50 watt tube head in a 2 x 12 is plenty volume and that small amps often sound way better and are more practical. I have another Laney Lion heart with a 2 x 12 at my disposal but its limited in its clean sound as it breaks up pretty quick and has no master volume.It just so happens that I have this 100w beasty and its probably not going anywhere anytime soon.I may well look into trading it for the right tool for the job.
    Anyway I'm gonna fiddle with it all later today and see where I can get the master section before things start falling of shelves!
    Let me know what you think of the Trace,she's a beauty and I got here for under 200 bucks which is only like 5 goats and a few chickens over here!
    Thanks
    Al
    So the Trace is TUBE?

    Cool, that's a real rare bird.

    Dunno about running it with an attenuator though.

    A.) unless you're doing a lot of really grungy stuff I don't know as you'd need to run it that hot and

    B.) I'm not sure that any attenuator made can take the power without burning out.
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

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