Thread: Focal Press Author Ethan Winer in TapeOp

Results 1 to 20 of 482

  1. #1
    Frustrated Chick Rock singer...now doing jazz standards poorly! Never made a record...music forum mod!
    Join Date Jan 2009
    Location Denver, CO, USA
    Posts 488
    Rep Power 536870999

    Default Focal Press Author Ethan Winer in TapeOp

    I just got the latest issue of TapeOp in the mail. I know the publication doesn't always get a lot of love here on The Womb, but I still enjoy reading it when it comes in the mail for free. I've found that it often contains pretty good interviews, if nothing else.

    I was dismayed this month to find that the "end rant" section was written by none other than Ethan Winer, on none other than the subject of perception in relation to audio.

    :

    Here's an interesting excerpt:

    "...I'm not talking about real differences, such as the sound of modern digital recording versus analog tape or vinyl records. Those differences are real, and are easily measured using the standard metrics of frequency response and distortion. Skilled listeners can easily identify which is which, nearly every time, in a blind test. Rather, what I'm addressing are differences that are perceived but not real - the placebo effect, if you will, or perhaps wishful thinking."

    He goes on to state that the perceived amount of clarity in different audio summing systems is entirely psychoacoustic

    Another excerpt:

    "The hostility expressed in audio forums over these issues is discouraging. The fastest way to get a thread locked is to title it "converter loop-back test" and describe how nobody was able to hear the difference between a budget converter and one costing $1,000 per channel."

    Yet another:

    "The beauty of null tests is that they reveal all differences between two audio signals, including differences you might not even be looking for. So if there were some as-yet unknown property of audio fidelity, it would have been revealed years ago in a null test."

    Overall I found the article to be much less repulsive than I was expecting (which isn't saying a whole lot), but I still think Ethan shouldn't be getting published in the same magazine as Jacquire King and Glenn Coleman, or any magazine at all, unless the article is about stuffing OC703 in a trash bag and covering it in fabric.

    Discuss....
    Last edited by clarito; March 27th, 2012 at 09:54 PM. Reason: sizing quotes
  2. #2
    Join Date Sep 2009
    Location Quake City
    Posts 10,390
    Rep Power 379012228

    Default Re: Ethan Winer in TapeOp

    HMmmm. I, too, get TapeOp although I don't always read it - sometimes there's an interview that I want, etc. I guess I'll have to open up the new issue and read what Ethan has to say, maybe fire off some commentary.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  3. #3
    Scrabble Tile Arranger Theo's brother the Painter
    Join Date Nov 2006
    Location Pretentious City, Straya
    Posts 1,844
    Rep Power 536871071

    Default Re: Ethan Winer in TapeOp

    Of course...

    It's all psychological...

    Specially if you're delusional like Ethan


    Coded messages in plain text...

    Originally Posted by Dwoz
    Most audiophiles could listen to PERFECT pink noise and get just as much enjoyment out of it.
  4. #4
    Has Many Personal Intergritys Expensive Boat Anchor
    Join Date Nov 2006
    Location New York
    Posts 10,157
    Rep Power 536871347

    Default Re: Ethan Winer in TapeOp

    the blind leading the deaf
  5. #5
    Scrabble Tile Arranger Theo's brother the Painter
    Join Date Nov 2006
    Location Pretentious City, Straya
    Posts 1,844
    Rep Power 536871071

    Default Re: Ethan Winer in TapeOp

    the blind leading the deaf
    It's the armless mixing brigade I tell you...


    Coded messages in plain text...

    Originally Posted by Dwoz
    Most audiophiles could listen to PERFECT pink noise and get just as much enjoyment out of it.
  6. #6
    Man from Glad understudy Backhoe therapist
    Join Date Jun 2008
    Location Krautistan
    Posts 1,145
    Rep Power 536871028

    Default Re: Ethan Winer in TapeOp


    "The hostility expressed in audio forums over these issues is discouraging. The fastest way to get a thread locked is to title it "converter loop-back test" and describe how nobody was able to hear the difference between a budget converter and one costing $1,000 per channel."
    Well,
    I think it would be easy to set up such a test i a way that no one could tell.
    And whoever nobody is...


    All the best,
    the keks
    Cape 8: Team Millionaires, Team Relentless



    The accordion - sometimes an instrument .... often just a bag pipe gone wrong.
    (Immanuel)
  7. #7
    Junior assistant coffee maker trainee ACME recording engineer...just add water.
    Join Date Jun 2011
    Posts 859
    Rep Power 536870981

    Default

    The poor guy clearly has a major rear end ache and chip on his shoulder (apparently caused by a compulsive need to shoot himself with a bazooka publicly times again). But of course he has to go crying to everybody about it (in this case a *new* audience).

    Maybe our friend the console maestro from outer space was Ethan Whiny the Poop... (similar dynamics at work.)

    :(
  8. #8
    Large dairy air enthusiast Runs a 4.35 forty...yeah right!
    Join Date Apr 2010
    Location Second largest French City
    Posts 1,181
    Rep Power 536871007

    Default Re: Ethan Winer in TapeOp

    So this is the "Nathan" that "SpoolMyCavity" was referring to in his recent tirade in his tired, ridiculous thread.

    Ethan's taking more shots at industry pros....
    Last edited by ivmike; March 28th, 2012 at 04:35 PM.
    The emotionally and tonally deaf cannot hear the important things and never will. They will scream to the heavens the rest of us are wrong and produce useless papers to prove their point.
    Anybody claiming to be the first probably wasn't!
    www.timvandeven.com
  9. #9
    Join Date Nov 2006
    Location Long Island, NY, USA
    Posts 10,008
    Rep Power 536871343

    Default Re: Ethan Winer in TapeOp

    Tape Op runs hot and cold. There are some great articles and interviews but you sometimes have to navigate through the nonsense.

    A friend of Ethan's who used to use "tape op contributor" in his sig (one of the previous forums... recpit?) had an epic flame fest with Steve "Loudist" Gursky in which Loudist essentially called him out as a poseur and charlatan, like, every day for a month or so while the former tried in vain to defend himself.

    I wonder (doubt) if Larry Crane even read Ethan's rant; Ethan seems to be implying that the sand blaster card that comes with your Sosumi laptop sounds every bit as good* as $1000 per channel converters -- the kind whose glossy full page ads adorn the front pages of his magazine



    *when monitored through a rane disco junior and jbl butthorns
    Man! You have GOT to try a hit of this RANGE SUNSHINE!

    IMTBO = In My Thoroughly Biased Opinion
    CMIIW = Correct Me If I'm Wrong
    Never underestimate the amount of contempt a failed musician has for those of us who are still trying.
    If the party's good enough, you can actually suck to a remarkable degree.

    Greedle
  10. #10
    Join Date Sep 2007
    Location East Glenbeckistan
    Posts 3,792
    Rep Power 536871125

    Default Re: Ethan Winer in TapeOp

    I wonder (doubt) if Larry Crane even read Ethan's rant
    I'm surprised that Consumer Reports hasn't yet hired Ethan to be their electronics editor. His thinking would fit in perfectly there.

    *when monitored through a rane disco junior and jbl butthorns
    "JBL Butthorns!" I wonder how many pervs in this world have attempted to use JBL butthorns as a masturbation enhancement device. Ew.....
    "Far too many people suffer from the anal-cranial inversion. They got their heads stuck up their asses!" - Tom Dowd
    "A great, timeless album is more than just an entertainment app." - Don Was
    "Success does not mean success. You are only as successful as your last hit record." - Patrick Adams (record producer)
    "The tech sector is like a guy in a crowded prison cell, who finds a hand grenade, and sets it off, so that he'll have the entire cell to himself." - Dwoz
  11. #11
    Martini Drinker Faded rockers wildlife reserve guard
    Join Date Nov 2006
    Posts 3,539
    Rep Power 2500000000

    Default Re: Ethan Winer in TapeOp

    I just got the latest issue of TapeOp in the mail. I know the publication doesn't always get a lot of love here on The Womb, but I still enjoy reading it when it comes in the mail for free. I've found that it often contains pretty good interviews, if nothing else.

    I was dismayed this month to find that the "end rant" section was written by none other than Ethan Winer, on none other than the subject of perception in relation to audio.

    :

    Here's an interesting excerpt:

    "...I'm not talking about real differences, such as the sound of modern digital recording versus analog tape or vinyl records. Those differences are real, and are easily measured using the standard metrics of frequency response and distortion. Skilled listeners can easily identify which is which, nearly every time, in a blind test. Rather, what I'm addressing are differences that are perceived but not real - the placebo effect, if you will, or perhaps wishful thinking."

    He goes on to state that the perceived amount of clarity in different audio summing systems is entirely psychoacoustic

    Another excerpt:

    "The hostility expressed in audio forums over these issues is discouraging. The fastest way to get a thread locked is to title it "converter loop-back test" and describe how nobody was able to hear the difference between a budget converter and one costing $1,000 per channel."

    Yet another:

    "The beauty of null tests is that they reveal all differences between two audio signals, including differences you might not even be looking for. So if there were some as-yet unknown property of audio fidelity, it would have been revealed years ago in a null test."

    Overall I found the article to be much less repulsive than I was expecting (which isn't saying a whole lot), but I still think Ethan shouldn't be getting published in the same magazine as Jacquire King and Glenn Coleman, or any magazine at all, unless the article is about stuffing OC703 in a trash bag and covering it in fabric.

    Discuss....
    Oh my. I'm sensing a letter to Tape Op...

    Mixerman
    Zen and the Art of Recording - NOW AVAILABLE!





  12. #12
    SoundBlaster™ Expert Regular person but for the extra nipple
    Join Date Nov 2006
    Location On the bright side of life!
    Posts 4,160
    Rep Power 536871147

    Default Re: Ethan Winer in TapeOp

    Originally Posted by Ethane Whiner
    "The hostility expressed in audio forums over these issues is discouraging. The fastest way to get a thread locked is to title it "converter loop-back test" and describe how nobody was able to hear the difference between a budget converter and one costing $1,000 per channel."
    That's especially true when, due to extreme highly developed technical skillz™ of the testing staff, the signal never passed the budget converter and the original signal was nulled with itself.

    I've never seen a null which was THAT null before. It was SO null, it was already almost negative.

    MacNullingExpert
    .
    Mac

    Don't be worried about your anosognosia.

    Being a professional is not about how good you are at your best,
    but how good you are at your worst.

    Creating complex solutions is easy.

  13. #13
    Court of The Crimson King of The Road Bought Bre-X high... still holding hope
    Join Date Nov 2006
    Location on a big ball flying through space
    Posts 4,566
    Rep Power 536871161

    Default Re: Ethan Winer in TapeOp

    I get Tape Op and I think it's generally a cool little rag, some interesting people and worthwhile articles pop up now and then.

    I tend to agree with the assessment about it running a little hot and cold, but, hey, that's alright. I mean, sometimes I read something somebody says and think "well, hang on, I don't know about that", but I just sort of read it all with the simple attitude of absorbing the useful nutrients and blowing the waste matter out my ass.

    I got the new issue a few days ago and was a tad surprised myself when I got to the back page piece. Basically thought "oh, hello... this might be interesting" (with the qualifier here that "interesting" is applied with a bit of a twist).

    I sort of read through it with a neutral mind as if I didn't know anything about the writer, and I thought that a lot of the readers might read that, the way it was written, and think that it was pretty reasonable, maybe even thinking "yeah, this guy has a good point!".

    The perspective is quite a bit different for somebody who, shall we say, is familiar with a little more backstory.

    Like, the bit about getting a forum thread locked and all that if describing how nobody could tell the difference between some low budget widget and $1K/channel converters... people could read that stuff and think "well, that's interesting!" and maybe get a whole batch of notions in their head, while thinking "oh, that poor persecuted man, attacked and reviled for bringing objective perspective and reason to audio issues!".

    A tad different if you followed one of these terrible threads of persecution of Truth and Reason by the irrational mob and got a bit more information about the experiments.


    It's like opening some car magazine and finding somebody who compared some street legal competition tires to some el cheapo no name brand nothing rubber that just fills the bill of being able to roll and keep the wheels from touching the ground and saying "there is no substantial difference!", but not mentioning that the "test" was to put the tires on a 1990 Chevy Lumina and cruise around city streets at 35 MPH for a while.


    JLE
    "A machine is only as effective as its user"-Wilbur Wright

    "I've suffered for my music, and now it's your turn"-Neil Innes

    "I am amazed every single day how so many think that you have to constantly DO things to engineer properly. In fact, you do as little as possible, and then only the things required. The trick is in knowing what is actually required."-Terry Manning

    "WE'RE ALL VILLAGE IDIOTS AT ONE POINT OR ANOTHER. "-der Schlippermensch

    Facebook me!
    blah, blah, blah
  14. #14
    Has Many Personal Intergritys Expensive Boat Anchor
    Join Date Nov 2006
    Location New York
    Posts 10,157
    Rep Power 536871347

    Default Re: Ethan Winer in TapeOp

    read the recent articles about how most people can't discern the differences between 'great' wine and typical (read as: inexpensive) wine?

    wine experts could; thereby proving, or confirming, that there is certainly a difference.
    but most people aren't able to tell.


    that doesn't "prove" that there's no need for fine wine.

    only that Ethan isn't an expert
  15. #15
    In a world of ones and zeros...this one's the latter. Ron Jeremy's fluffer
    Join Date Jan 2007
    Location New Milford, CT USA
    Posts 597
    Rep Power 0

    Default Re: Ethan Winer in TapeOp

    I wonder (doubt) if Larry Crane even read Ethan's rant
    LOL at every one of you guys. Here's my exchange with Larry:

    Originally Posted by Email from Larry Crane
    -------- Original Message --------
    Subject: Re: Interview / End Rant
    Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 16:26:44 -0800
    From: Larry Crane <larry@tapeop.com>
    To: Ethan Winer <ethanw@ethanwiner.com>

    I like it. I'll plan on running it.

    > Hi Larry,
    >
    > Attached is my End Rant for the March issue of Tape Op. Please confirm you received this, and that it's acceptable.
    Then a few days before the issue came out, the publisher sent me this email:

    Originally Posted by Email from John Baccigaluppi
    -------- Original Message --------
    Subject: Nice piece!
    Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 15:57:46 -0800
    From: John Baccigaluppi Tape Op <john@tapeop.com>
    To: RealTraps <ethan@realtraps.com>

    I like the article you did we're publishing this issue!!!
    So much for your sophomoric (sophomoronic?) opinions.

    --Ethan
  16. #16
    D minor, the saddest of keys! Wing Commander!!
    Join Date Apr 2007
    Location nc
    Posts 834
    Rep Power 536871031

    Default Re: Ethan Winer in TapeOp

    read the recent articles about how most people can't discern the differences between 'great' wine and typical (read as: inexpensive) wine?

    wine experts could; thereby proving, or confirming, that there is certainly a difference.
    but most people aren't able to tell.


    that doesn't "prove" that there's no need for fine wine.

    only that Ethan isn't an expert
    that's a good way of putting it.
    I'm a fan of cheese!
  17. #17
    Join Date Sep 2009
    Location Quake City
    Posts 10,390
    Rep Power 379012228

    Default Re: Ethan Winer in TapeOp

    The poor guy clearly has a major rear end ache and chip on his shoulder (apparently caused by a compulsive need to shoot himself with a bazooka publicly times again). But of course he has to go crying to everybody about it (in this case a *new* audience).

    Maybe our friend the console maestro from outer space was Ethan Whiny the Poop... (similar dynamics at work.)

    :(
    No. I know Ethan - he's actually quite a nice guy when he's not spouting nonsense - and while he does have delusions of being James Randi, he is not actually clinically paranoid and is not a mean person by nature.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  18. #18
    Join Date Nov 2011
    Location Charlotte, NC
    Posts 1,895
    Rep Power 536871011

    Default Re: Ethan Winer in TapeOp

    the blind leading the deaf
    It's the armless mixing brigade I tell you...
    "What does it sound like?"

    "I don't know."

    "What?"
    CAPE 10: Team Uprising
  19. #19
    Man from Glad understudy Burma Shaver
    Join Date Nov 2006
    Posts 1,112
    Rep Power 536871046

    Default Re: Ethan Winer in TapeOp

    Typically my subscription ran out last month.

    I was yet to renew it and then this happens.
    "There is no movement in golf that cannot be made more difficult through diligent study and practice." - Leslie Nielson

    "do not misconstrue a lack of planning on YOUR part for a crisis on MY part." - Shotgun

    www.bowermanstudios.com
  20. #20
    Frustrated Chick Rock singer...now doing jazz standards poorly! Never made a record...music forum mod!
    Join Date Jan 2009
    Location Denver, CO, USA
    Posts 488
    Rep Power 536870999

    Default Re: Ethan Winer in TapeOp

    Tape Op runs hot and cold. There are some great articles and interviews but you sometimes have to navigate through the nonsense.
    Bingo.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts