Thread: Logic Pro X : One Year Review

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  1. #1
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    Default Logic Pro X : One Year Review

    So it's already been a year since Logic Pro X came out (it was in July if I recall well).
    After several updates (more or less usefull, more or less working),
    What do you think of Logic Pro X?
    Is it just a fancy design update or does it worth it?

    Are we losing time with this new version that doesn't bring anything new? (At least, from mixing engineer perspective, whom I don't think are using smart control, drummers and midi processing a lot)

    What does Logic Pro X bring you new? What would you miss returning to Lp9?

    Track Stack is a great feature, I use it quite often and I miss it when I get back to Lp9.

    Inserts are "simpler" to manage (you don't need to press Opt key to bypass one, and you can move them without Cmd, wooow, revolution !)

    I find that the theme is too-dark. Too much contrast for me, it tires my poor eyes very quickly.

    Tracks can now go until +30dBFS, blowing away the law of electronic and common sense!

    No support for 32bits plugins ! No really, they couldn't design it in a way it would accept 32bit plugins. It was impossible. Thank you apple, you're great, what would I do with my old plugins without you?

    And in the end, what does Logic Pro 9 really add to Logic Pro 8?

    Let's get back to the roots!
  2. #2
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    Default Re: Logic Pro X : One Year Review

    http://www.macprovideo.com/hub/logic...in-logic-pro-x

    or

    http://www.soundradix.com/products/32-lives

    Would have been neater if the 32-bit bridge came in the shrinkwrap, but I guess that's the price of progress.

    Now, if you were running VSTs, you'd really be SOL.
  3. #3
    this womb is your womb, this womb is my womb drinks tea in coffeehouses
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    I'm aware of those softwares.
    They won't make me buy they couldn't built it natively.
  4. #4
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    Default Re: Logic Pro X : One Year Review

    I agree that the GUI is to dark. Would have been nice to have the option to change it.
    Then again, Cubase has also gone dark.
  5. #5
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    Default Re: Logic Pro X : One Year Review

    I felt like this might be a long reply so I've avoided it.

    After thinking about it, I like it. GUI is a love hate thing.

    Lots of things I wish would've been addressed. Oh well...it works.
    Mike
  6. #6
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    Default Re: Logic Pro X : One Year Review

    For the people not liking the GUI colors : Apple has been so nice (I think since logic 7) to reference the actual GUI as images in the actual app (as you may know, a Mac app is just some kind of packaged folder, right click on an app and you'll see a "Show Package Contents option).

    Agreed, it's not as easy (un-Apple-like some would say) as twiddling some options in Logic itself, but someone with some decent image editing skills (and some taste) can knock something up pretty easily.

    Luckily for you, some sites have a collection of "skins". I think there's even an app called Logic Theme switcher to make it easier.

    http://logicxinterfaces.wordpress.com/ has a selection of user made themes. Some of them are atrocious (you know, taste...) but some of them can address the too dark problems nicely. There are probably other resources floating around on the net.

    Or you know, you could make your own if you wanted
  7. #7
    this womb is your womb, this womb is my womb drinks tea in coffeehouses
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    Thanks!
    In fact I've already seen this site before, but I found the themes are pretty ugly (yeah. Taste... )
    I said to myself that I will make one for myself one day...
    But I think I'd rather be mixing than "designing"
    Just a little wheel of colors in the settings would have been great!
    But yeah what we got is better than nothing
  8. #8
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    Default Re: Logic Pro X : One Year Review

    Yeah, the way Apple is going now with their software doesn't inspire me much confidence.

    Just look at what they did with Aperture (dropped it) and Keynote (removed most of the functions, hey it's free now...).

    Yes I understand it's a company, and they need to make profit, but come on, the dumbing down of their software or outright abandoning stuff just gets on my nerves. Kinda denying all what they stood for before (and I'm not a fanboy in the least, it's a tool like any other).

    I'm all for unifying interfaces, but not if it's in the detriment of features and workflow.

    The sad thing is, they all have their flaws. From the DAWs I work(ed) with those are my findings :

    Cubendo: pretty good package, but a lot of bugs, they prefer releasing new features (gadgets I call them) instead of fixing what doesn't work. Pretty abysmal support.

    Alsihad: lags behind the rest regarding features, editing is still as great as ever, but the way Avid is going, I fear they're not going to last long anymore, unless they change their plan big time (kinda like focusing on the pro high end or post only). It might be me only, but I feel like they lost their focus when they tried to tackle the bedroom producer market.

    Reaper: lots of flexibility, lots of potential, but I feel like I'm spending more time configuring the thing than actually working with it. Too much flexibility can be detrimental too. Then on the other hand, some things are mindboggingly stupid. Ever tried to set a timecode grid for post???
    Somebody once told me Reaper is for people that have time to spare, not for people that want to make a living. Kinda agree.

    Ableton (and to some extent Bitwig): cool if you're doing loop based music, but kinda one trick pony. You either get the interface or you don't.

    Kinda makes you wonder we made any progress since we "left" tape...
  9. #9
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    Default Re: Logic Pro X : One Year Review

    Wow, I could agree with a lot of that.
    Mike
  10. #10
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    Default Re: Logic Pro X : One Year Review

    Except that Cubendo mafia rinsed their act with 7/7.5.

    I mean really.
  11. #11
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    Default Re: Logic Pro X : One Year Review

    It's getting there, after version 7.5.20 it's starting to perform as it should (although I find the Mac version still has problems with performance vs PC version). But cmon, we're at version 7.5.xx for god's sake, does it have to take so long to fix a solo/mute bug (oh yes they solved one, they introduced another one)?

    It's not a blame to Steinberg only, but we're gradually becoming paying beta testers for sofware now.
  12. #12
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    Default Re: Logic Pro X : One Year Review

    It's getting there, after version 7.5.20 it's starting to perform as it should (although I find the Mac version still has problems with performance vs PC version). But cmon, we're at version 7.5.xx for god's sake, does it have to take so long to fix a solo/mute bug (oh yes they solved one, they introduced another one)?

    It's not a blame to Steinberg only, but we're gradually becoming paying beta testers for sofware now.
    This is the first time since a very long time I've not felt like an unpaid beta tester!
  13. #13
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    Sushi Re: Logic Pro X : One Year Review

    Yeah, the way Apple is going now with their software doesn't inspire me much confidence.

    Just look at what they did with Aperture (dropped it) and Keynote (removed most of the functions, hey it's free now...).
    It was delusional in the first place for Steve Jobs to believe that Apple could unseat Adobe from the imaging business and Microsoft from the enterprise. Tim Cook is showing a little more sensibility as to where he wants to invest his company's money.

    Logic still has a huge significance for one main reason: iTunes. The easier they can make it for people to market their music, the more Apple comes out winning for many reasons.

    IMHO, Apple put in quite the effort in leveling out the music playing field and were it not for this, there may have been a lot of music that would have gone undiscovered.

    Yes I understand it's a company, and they need to make profit, but come on, the dumbing down of their software or outright abandoning stuff just gets on my nerves. Kinda denying all what they stood for before (and I'm not a fanboy in the least, it's a tool like any other).

    I'm all for unifying interfaces, but not if it's in the detriment of features and workflow.
    Don't know what you're talking about. Many of the workflows that I have been using in Logic since 1988 are still there. In fact, if you dig a little deeper, you will find that Apple has added a whole lot more geekery under the hood. There's quite a lot of shit that you do with Logic once you decide to get your hands dirty. Many of the these are thing that make Logic stand out from other DAWs.

    People just don't read the help section... there's a lot of useful nuggets in there.

    Kinda makes you wonder we made any progress since we "left" tape...
    Anyone who has played with razor blades and a cutting block already knows the answer is yes. What really fills me with wonder is with all of these power tools, making music production faster, has everyone gotten lazy to the point where they believe that music should be made at the touch of a button as opposed to putting in some actual thought and a bit of elbow grease?

    The problem is more of people expecting instant gratification as soon as they install the application. The unfortunate afterbirth of the discovery of new music is the overly deluded state of 15-year old zit farms that now believe that they are grammy winning producers as soon as they buy the application. it was no different in the desktop publishing and web design fields, and having witnessed it for the past 3 decades, you notice the difference between cream rising to the top and shit floats.

    jord
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  14. #14
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    Sushi Re: Logic Pro X : One Year Review

    So it's already been a year since Logic Pro X came out (it was in July if I recall well).
    After several updates (more or less usefull, more or less working),
    What do you think of Logic Pro X?
    Is it just a fancy design update or does it worth it?
    Considering that the proof is in the output and the productivity, I say it is. As it was already stated, it's a tool. I've been using it to make music because that is what it does. Warts and all, it still does things the way I like it. Otherwise, I would have dumped it last century and put it with all of the other apps I used.

    Are we losing time with this new version that doesn't bring anything new? (At least, from mixing engineer perspective, whom I don't think are using smart control, drummers and midi processing a lot)
    Very myopic to believe that Logic is only a mixing tool. Yes, it has bunch of mixing features, but its strength is on creating music, and not simply audio production. MIDI and everything MIDI related will always be one of Logic's strengths. It has been its strength since 1988 and to this day is unbeatable for the things that it does. It's not perfect, but I have yet to see other DAWs compare in this field.

    Let's start with Smart Controls. These are the macro knobs and buttons that I have been complaining about Logic missing for the past 5 years or so. In fact, Apple went above and beyond with this one because not only can I attach one knob to many controls on various items in a channel strip and control them both proportionally and inversely proportional, I can now tie that knob to either my control surface, my keyboard controller, or my foot pedal controller and automate the shit out of it in a mix. Tell me no Logic user who mixes music has any use for this and I'll be the first to call bullshit!

    MIDI Processing is something that many Logic users have been crying for for the past 15 years mostly because they have been way too lazy to open the Environment window and wire things together. In other words, they have been trying to force Apple to dumb things down because of their own willingness to understand how Logic was working eleven years prior. Luckily for many of us longtime users, Apple delivered something that only appeared dumbed down but was really a huge step forward from the Environment: MIDI Scripting. Again, this is the tool of a Logic user and is very much what makes Logic what it is. And, when applied on a channel strip, you get far more possibilities than simple fader pushing and knob twisting.

    And last, there's the Drummer. As a Logic user, I will go as far as to say that this is one of my more favorite features. Why? Because I can focus on writing music first, which is Logic's primary focus. Even throughout the years from when I first worked at Apple, there's one thing that has never changed in their mantra: focus on the task... not the tool. Drummer allows me to do just that: create music. If you think otherwise, look at the direction other companies are now heading, such as ToonTrack with EZDrummer2. That thing is a monster for creating drum tracks now. They may not sound like BFD, Slate or Abbey Road Drummers, but that doesn't matter because I can take the tracks and refine them after while putting in these sounds.

    What does Logic Pro X bring you new? What would you miss returning to Lp9?

    Track Stack is a great feature, I use it quite often and I miss it when I get back to Lp9.

    Inserts are "simpler" to manage (you don't need to press Opt key to bypass one, and you can move them without Cmd, wooow, revolution !)
    You also seem to forgot a few new tools for the modern day mix engineer, such as Flex Pitch. It's not Melodyne, but it definitely works once you apply the same principles of pitch correction (even though I still feel dirty after using it).

    I find that the theme is too-dark. Too much contrast for me, it tires my poor eyes very quickly.
    You might find yourself in the minority. Most users I know have often complained of interfaces that are too bright and getting in the way. In fact, I saw it recently when BFD3 was released. Most tools that I use, musical or otherwise, use a grey background because it stays out of the way. Don't think that Apple is no longer listening to the pro community... in fact, they are listening more than ever now that Jobs is rotting in the ground.

    Tracks can now go until +30dBFS, blowing away the law of electronic and common sense!
    What law?? There is no "law"! It's just floating point math. Nothing more. Logic's audio handling abilities has always far exceeded the the fixed 24-bit 144db limits. It's up to you as to how you use them. You're the mix engineer. You know your equipment and how far you can push things. If you sum things past digital zero on your audio interface without proper processing or even a basic understanding of what you are doing, you're going to get crap. Don't put this one on Apple.

    No support for 32bits plugins ! No really, they couldn't design it in a way it would accept 32bit plugins. It was impossible. Thank you apple, you're great, what would I do with my old plugins without you?
    No, they cannot. If you understood the plug-in architecture of CoreAudio, which is an operating system level framework, you would know that a 64-bit app cannot host a 32-bit plug-in internally. The bridge was nothing more than another application run by Logic. However, this was a very unstable way of doing things and was also limiting as far as core handling. Picking one platform, namely 64-bit, has allowed them to focus where it is really necessary, as opposed to scattering their resources and continuing to produce the same old unstable product.

    Considering that software developers have had 5 years to go to 64-bit, blame them for staying 32-bit. For once, Apple has done the right thing here.

    And in the end, what does Logic Pro 9 really add to Logic Pro 8?
    64-bit to start... I could go on, but I want to play guitar on this lovely Canada Eh! holiday.

    And not to mention that I wasn't going to put my head through a brick wall because BFD worked going to 9 (totally wasn't the case going to 8).

    Let's get back to the roots!
    As a 25+ year Logic user, i look forward to this enlightenment. :P

    jord
    Last edited by jord; July 1st, 2014 at 07:54 PM.
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  15. #15
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    Default Re: Logic Pro X : One Year Review

    Don't know what you're talking about. Many of the workflows that I have been using in Logic since 1988 are still there. In fact, if you dig a little deeper, you will find that Apple has added a whole lot more geekery under the hood. There's quite a lot of shit that you do with Logic once you decide to get your hands dirty. Many of the these are thing that make Logic stand out from other DAWs.

    People just don't read the help section... there's a lot of useful nuggets in there.
    Oh I wasn't talking about Logic in particular here, but for Apple apps in general. Some of them went down the drain big time lately (like I said, I'm mainly looking at FCPx, Aperture and Keynote here), where you could say they had pretty able platforms, and suddenly decided to remove functionalities only god knows why. Sure, you can still work with the programs and get jobs done, but sometimes I wonder what went through their minds when they made some decisions (Hey, the possibility exists that I'm the weirdo here )

    Anyone who has played with razor blades and a cutting block already knows the answer is yes. What really fills me with wonder is with all of these power tools, making music production faster, has everyone gotten lazy to the point where they believe that music should be made at the touch of a button as opposed to putting in some actual thought and a bit of elbow grease?

    The problem is more of people expecting instant gratification as soon as they install the application. The unfortunate afterbirth of the discovery of new music is the overly deluded state of 15-year old zit farms that now believe that they are grammy winning producers as soon as they buy the application. it was no different in the desktop publishing and web design fields, and having witnessed it for the past 3 decades, you notice the difference between cream rising to the top and shit floats.

    jord
    Yeah but this is the crux of the problem I think. And to be honest, Apple isn't the only guilty party in this.
    It's getting into a vicious circle. On paper, the tools have evolved beyond anything we could imagine even 20, no, even 10 years ago.
    Yes, I worked with tape and razors, and yes I was happy the first time I saw what computer editing could do, but again, human nature caught up.
    For a lot of people, those tools turned the promise of faster workflow and easier decision making into just the opposite: delaying decisions, because there is too much choice, or people rely on the tools too much.
    People get complacent because they know some tool exist or will exist soon that can make them look competent with the push of a button.
    And then you get companies trying to cash in on this by trying to offer even more tools that promise to do awesome stuff just by looking at them, and the cycle starts again.

    In the end, the software is just a tool, if it works for you, it works for you, but it might not be pleasant for someone else. If someone asks me to drive a nail into a wall, I'll use a hammer. I'd gladly say any hammer would do, but you know, I'd prefer one that has a comfortable grip and fits my hands well. In the end, if I manage to hit the nail right, I'm happy. I'd be pretty pissed though if I swung it, they head would fly off right onto my foot (sorry, we know about this bug, it will be fixed in Hammer v1.1 )

    I'll never write software off completely (yes, I legally own Logic, Cubase and Alsihad and even others, they each have their own uses to me. It's not like I don't support the developpers with my hard earned cash ). Every soft has it's pro and cons. Bugs are a part of our life, and so be it.
    It's just a little sad to see that sometimes there's too much time spent on proposing extra features instead of fixing existing ones.
    I guess the only viable solution would be to program my own...
  16. #16
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    Sushi Re: Logic Pro X : One Year Review

    Now we're talking the same language.

    Everyone wants instant results without the effort. They have, what my old Sensei referred to, as a drive-thru mentality.

    You're right... everyone and their pet monkey are putting out tools that greatly simplify a lot of processes, and it's backfiring against people. What is happening is that people are using these tools without learning what the tools are about and all of a sudden they are relying on the tools, again as you stated.

    The tool has become a crutch.

    I've got nothing against having power tools to make things easier, but I know that owning a nail gun and a circular saw doesn't make me qualified to build a house. I see the same thing with people owning all of the channel strip plug-ins and don't know the first thing about a compressor or EQ.

    It's rather sad sometimes to go on forums to find the many that are deluded into believing that their next hit record is just one plug-in or preset away.

    Every piece of software indeed has bugs. What some people don't realize is that some bugs are harder to fix than others. Not because of the bug itself, but because of the implications of fixing the bug. Logic used to be that way... I remember being in chat forums with some of the developers years ago. A lot of things wound up re-written from the ground up because of this, starting with the audio engine.

    jord
    Last edited by jord; July 1st, 2014 at 09:42 PM.
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