Thread: Drumheads that won't fit

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  1. #1
    Frustrated Chick Rock singer...now doing jazz standards poorly! Yknee cnut
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    Default Drumheads that won't fit

    Hey folks

    So, after about 10 years of playing evans heads (and being quite happy) I decided to buy a shitload of remo heads.
    Ambassador clears, coateds, Ambassador X's, Powerstroke 3's, Dots, Emperors, yadda yadda etc.
    The reason, you ask? Boredom probably.

    Anyway.

    None of those suckers will fit the bearing edge of my DWs.
    Note the plural form there - one kit is from 2003, one is brand spanking new. Both top of the line collector's, perfect edges, perfectly round - Sir Cumference would be proud.

    Here's the problem:
    None of the heads will sit flat on any of the toms.
    Evans Heads sit flat. DW Heads (made by REMO!!) sit flat.
    Standard Remos will rock back and forth on the edge like crazy!
    Seems like the bearing edge sits somewhere on the inside of the collar.

    Let me try to illustrate it:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    As a result, all of my toms make a buzzing sound unless they are
    tuned ridiculously high!

    I checked the edges, checked for flatness, checked for roundness, did the CPR-Stylee thing to seat the heads, tuned them up high and then backed off, contacted DW who of course "never heard of that", tried different heads, threw a tantrum, sacrificed small animals to mithra, etc.

    Did any of you guys ever have that happen?

    Frank
    Drummers perspective or death. -Slippy
  2. #2
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    Default Re: Drumheads that won't fit

    Yep.

    Remo QC is notoriously shit.

    Comes and goes.

    Has for 3 decades.

    SM.
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  3. #3
    Silly Rabbit Underwater ceramic engineer
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    Default Re: Drumheads that won't fit

    Don't buy Remo heads.

    Problem solved.
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Drumheads that won't fit

    Don't buy Remo heads.
    Problem solved.
    Only works if yer willing to settle for something less(or at least different) sonically.

    The paradox has always been:

    Remos can often sound better than any of the alternatives.

    Totally inconsistant QC make it a crapshoot to find out.

    Case in point.

    BA0014 has NO EQUIVALENT(if you want THAT sound) for snare recording(Say Genera and I'll stab you).

    Period.

    However: As many as 2 out of 3 of them can be fucked in a given batch.

    As I noted in my earlier post: 3 decades of this nonsense at this point.

    There was a time(70-80's) when Remos QC was golden and Evans was a fucking nightmare.

    Funny that.

    SM.
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  5. #5
    Has Many Personal Intergritys Expensive Boat Anchor
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    Default Re: Drumheads that won't fit

    Only works if yer willing to settle for something less(or at least different) sonically.

    The paradox has always been:

    Remos can often sound better than any of the alternatives.

    Totally inconsistant QC make it a crapshoot to find out.

    Case in point.

    BA0014 has NO EQUIVALENT(if you want THAT sound) for snare recording(Say Genera and I'll stab you).

    Period.

    However: As many as 2 out of 3 of them can be fucked in a given batch.
    FWIW I agree
    although I'm not sure it's as bad as 1 out of 3 being useable, generally.
  6. #6
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    Default Re: Drumheads that won't fit

    Drummerboy: I've noticed the same thing - Remo heads on my 2004 DW Collector's studio kit = higher tuning than I want sometimes. (I hate that it's called "Collector's," btw - collectors can bite me.)

    On a possibly related topic, I dunno if I love those 45 degree bearing edges as much as I thought I would.
  7. #7
    Frustrated Chick Rock singer...now doing jazz standards poorly! Yknee cnut
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    Default

    Wow, seems like I've been lucky and a bit spoiled by the evans fit. To me, the remos sound a bit "tighter" for lack of a better term. Love the sound, hate the QC.

    Jesse: other than with the remo's I've been very happy with my collector's. So much that I had to visit their factory twice in a year ;-)
    The classic line comes with a much rounder bearing edge, if that's something you'd be interested in.
    They would also cut you any edge you'd want on a custom order.

    Btw - does anyone know what the Ross Garfield (drumdoctors) dw-treatment to their bearing edge is?
    Drummers perspective or death. -Slippy
  8. #8
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    Default Re: Drumheads that won't fit

    Don't get me wrong - I love my DW kit. I've spent a lot of time getting to know it and I can tune it up pretty damn good, and when it's on it's ON… it's pretty rare that a drummer comes to my place and isn't stoked to use my kit over his/her own. But what I've noticed is that, compared to kits with the older style bearing edges, the DW is very unforgiving, especially the toms. The interval between the resonant and batter heads has to be juuust right, or shit gets ugly.

    Or maybe I'm hallucinating here, 'cause it's not like I'm actually a drummer.
  9. #9
    Frustrated Chick Rock singer...now doing jazz standards poorly! Yknee cnut
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    Default

    You're spot on to what I observed with my deedubbs. Especially on the 12": Get one lug wrong and it sounds like booowowowow from hell. Get it right and it's a dream. It's much better on my new kit which has 12x8 instead 12x9. Also, it's maple/mahogany which are a bit more forgiving in tuning as well.
    Drummers perspective or death. -Slippy
  10. #10
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    Default Re: Drumheads that won't fit

    Get one lug wrong and it sounds like booowowowow from hell. Get it right and it's a dream.
    To me, this describes all drums.

    I've never personally had a problem with Remo fitment, but I have had to tune Evans heads on a Sonor kit, and that is an exercise in futility.
  11. #11
    Frustrated Chick Rock singer...now doing jazz standards poorly! Yknee cnut
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    Default Re: Drumheads that won't fit

    You're right Podgorny, but dw 12's seem to be uber-sensitive in those regards.

    What were your problems with the evans head on the sonor?
    Jojo doesn't seem to have any issues. Was that some time ago?

    Frank
    Drummers perspective or death. -Slippy
  12. #12
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    Default Re: Drumheads that won't fit

    You're right Podgorny, but dw 12's seem to be uber-sensitive in those regards.
    My DW 14" rack and 16" floor toms also act like divas in this regard. In contrast, I have a mid-1970s Ludwig floor tom with uneven, 1/4" wide, rough, entirely shitty-looking bearing edges and it sounds like a million bucks even if you let a xanax-addicted spider monkey tune it with one of those cordless drill bit drum keys.
  13. #13
    Frustrated Chick Rock singer...now doing jazz standards poorly! Yknee cnut
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    Default Re: Drumheads that won't fit

    I found my 14 and 16 always easy to tune, 10 is no problem either.
    Do you tune the bottom head higher, lower or same as the top?
    I tend to like bottom higher.
    Drummers perspective or death. -Slippy
  14. #14
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    Default Re: Drumheads that won't fit

    Were they this inconsistent back in the '70s and early '80s?
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  15. #15
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    Default Re: Drumheads that won't fit

    Were they this inconsistent back in the '70s and early '80s?
    Hey Bob.

    Short answer: No.

    Problems started in the mid 80's and it's been a roller coaster ride ever since.

    Got better for a while in the late 80's.

    Tanked again in the mid 90's. Just horrible.

    On and off since.

    Mostly hoop adhesion and shoulder form issues.

    It's bedlam.

    Still my favorite SOUNDING heads in many ways.

    Absolute CRAP SHOOT as far as QC.

    Grain of salt, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

    Best regards,

    Slippy
    Kill me. No really. Just fucking kill me.
  16. #16
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    Default Re: Drumheads that won't fit

    Is there any easy way to tell what you got when you're in the shop [store]? I've heard of people opening the boxes and tapping each head with a finger, listening for anomalies.


    I also noticed with my last remo snare head that the coating doesn't seem to be what it used to.
    Shoulda saved that for my therapist
  17. #17
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    Default Re: Drumheads that won't fit

    I'd definitely return any bad ones for a refund. Screwing up needs to be made very expensive for them.
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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Drumheads that won't fit

    The only time I ever ran into an issue where I couldn't get a Remo head to seat properly was on an old set of Premier drums that were metric…..the problem wan't the drum or the head, the problem was me. I bought the wrong head.

    DW has never really done it for me; too thumpy and one-dimensional for my tastes. However, YMMV.
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  19. #19
    Frustrated Chick Rock singer...now doing jazz standards poorly! Yknee cnut
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    Default Re: Drumheads that won't fit

    DW has never really done it for me; too thumpy and one-dimensional for my tastes
    Yeah, well... You probably had a couple of those bad remo's on them

    So then, I will return 600 bucks worth of drumheads to my store tomorrow. Then I will get the same amount of DW factory remo heads (the crimped style which sit absolutely flat on dw shells).

    Everybody seems to hate those heads. Can't wait for all the reactions
    Drummers perspective or death. -Slippy
  20. #20
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    Default Re: Drumheads that won't fit

    I'd definitely return any bad ones for a refund. Screwing up needs to be made very expensive for them.
    Wouldn't it be nice for those of us who notice(and care), if manufacturers had an educated enough clientele that they actually had to adhere to somewhat higher standards?

    The unfortunate reality is that the vast majority of drum heads NEVER get changed until they are utterly UNUSABLE on yer average "no really, I play the drums too!" drummers kit. And those guys probably still represent the statistical MAJORITY of head sales in any given year.

    Even accomplished players with expensive kits routinely come through my shop with the original 'brand stamped' bottom heads on 5 or even 10 year old drum kits.

    "You gotta change those?"

    Yes. You gotta change doze.

    Ahh me. And we wonder where "Drummer Jokes" come from...

    Anyhoo.

    I suspect that Remo counts on majority of user ignorance and customer service finesse(blow smoke and send 'em a new head if it's REALLY obvious) trumping QC because it's CHEAPER in the long run.

    Plain and simple 'bottom line' thingie is the vibe I got from Remo YEARS ago when I first started seeing this.

    WhattaSurprize huh?

    SM.
    Kill me. No really. Just fucking kill me.

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