1. #1
    Owns and wears an Elvis jumpsuit Abstruse Absquatulater
    Join Date Apr 2008
    Location JHB, RSA
    Posts 2,385
    Rep Power 536871101

    Default JBL VTX V20/S25 vs multi-cellular arrays (MLA, ANYA)...still early days?

    I went to our local unveiling of the JBL VTX V20/S25 system last week and listened to our local distributor, Paul Bauman and other Harman reps go on about the revolutionary technology behind the D2 driver and their Differential Drive technology.

    I realise that the Vertec/VTX systems are probably the most requested systems on tech riders, which somewhat explains why JBL is sticking with and developing their existing technology, but I couldn't help but think that they're beating a dead a horse a little.

    Let me explain.

    To me the Vertec series was a decent line array but it had a tendency to get a bit harsh in the upper midrange to my ears. This was apparently due to the HF drivers breaking up somewhere around 8kHz at a higher SPLs, AFAIK. So, they came up with this new dual-diaphragm D2 driver that was so good they ended up also using it in their flagship M2 studio monitors. Now, that says a lot because it's not every day you see a driver designed for long throw applications being used in a studio monitor. The distortion characteristics are obviously very low and I commend JBL for their ingenuity.

    However, I can't help but think that companies like Martin Audio and EAW are driving line source systems into new, better territory. The MLA sounds very good and the fact that you can basically create any 3D wavefront you want (within reason) with it and other systems like the ANYA is obviously very advantageous. I haven't heard the ANYA but if reports are true, it's a revolutionary system, like the MLA.

    Are line arrays about to become old tech? Are they already old tech? Are systems like the MLA and ANYA not catching on yet because they're still too expensive?

    I dunno, I kind of expected JBL to come up with something a bit more interesting than a smaller version of the V25. Seems like old hat with a new bow.

    Any thoughts?

    Cheers
    Originally Posted by Slipperman
    Deny everything and claim it's all "Haas-Moeller and Graffenfrimitz" MICING techniques and CAN'T be removed from the tracks without damaging the stereo field due to the "Von Stauffenberg Effect".
    Pan Music Productions
    http://gregbester.xp3.biz
  2. #2
    Roadside Outcast Dept. Short-rope candidate
    Join Date Nov 2006
    Location On location...
    Posts 5,067
    Rep Power 536871208

    Default Re: JBL VTX V20/S25 vs multi-cellular arrays (MLA, ANYA)...still early days?

    I realise that the Vertec/VTX systems are probably the most requested systems on tech riders...
    Er...no.

    I'd say d+b, and L'Acoustics were way ahead.

    I think that JBL are probably the #1 "if you don't have my preferred system then a Vertec with the latest software and proper power will do" rig.

    Other brands required that you purchase the whole system, whereas you could buy Vertec by the box and power it with any old amps you had laying around.

    The problem with Vertec is there was some absolute cowboys out there who gave the system a bad name, but since the V4 software was released it has been a much less horrible sounding system..provided it is properly deployed and powered.

    In terms of these newer arrays, apparently the Martin is very good, but they are fighting against the established players in that league, and it may prove to be a hard sell just on brand awareness. I've read reports that the EAW Anya is amazing, but EAW have to deal with the fact that they lost a lot of friends in recent years after the Mackie buyout...parts became a huge problem at one point...so they are trying to re-establish themselves as serious contenders and overcome their own recent history and the attendant damage to their reputation.

    The cost of these new systems is obviously an issue, and I suspect many potential purchasers have a current rig which is still in demand, and not at the point where the depreciation makes a new system feasible yet...

    ...which leads to the problem of not enough touring BE's being exposed to the new rigs...which means they haven't started appearing on riders yet...so nobody wants to buy something that isn't being asked for...and it all gets very circular very quickly...

    Cheers,
    Tim
    Don't forget, we are all engaged in a battle to the death against mediocrity.

    The best radio mic system that money can buy is ALMOST as good as a $20 cable.

    One of the most important things to remember about sound is:
    'Sucks' is always conducted better than 'Rules'. - Pimp-X wisdom


    Never underestimate the power of stupid - Blackie C (RIP)

    Ego and talent seldom go hand in hand... Talent and humble on the other hand... - Zoesch

    Weedy ignores this simple bit of glaring obviousness because he is an "ELECTRIC BASS GUITARIST"(coughcough)
    and views the kick drum as a "bass riff rhythmic pattern suggestion generator" - Slipperman
  3. #3
    Join Date Nov 2006
    Location Bexley, OH
    Posts 2,346
    Rep Power 536871118

    Default Re: JBL VTX V20/S25 vs multi-cellular arrays (MLA, ANYA)...still early days?

    Tims post above echoes my thought on it as well. D&B and L'Acoustics are what I see getting asked for (and what I like best as well).
  4. #4
    Owns and wears an Elvis jumpsuit Abstruse Absquatulater
    Join Date Apr 2008
    Location JHB, RSA
    Posts 2,385
    Rep Power 536871101

    Default Re: JBL VTX V20/S25 vs multi-cellular arrays (MLA, ANYA)...still early days?

    Fair enough. I don't know where I came up with that but I swear that use to be the case at least? I also see L-Acoustics K1 being the rider PA of choice, even here. Not as much d&b but we don't have enough of that kit.

    But thanks, everything else you guys said makes sense.

    My whole thought behind this was basically that if JBL and Harman are the forerunners they project themselves to be, why aren't they and other companies putting R&D into technologies like MLA and ANYA that are clearly better from a coverage and even sound quality point of view?

    Do you know any other company doing anything like Martin and EAW? I can't think of any. It just feels like line array technology is getting seriously long in the tooth.

    Cheers
    Originally Posted by Slipperman
    Deny everything and claim it's all "Haas-Moeller and Graffenfrimitz" MICING techniques and CAN'T be removed from the tracks without damaging the stereo field due to the "Von Stauffenberg Effect".
    Pan Music Productions
    http://gregbester.xp3.biz
  5. #5
    Join Date Mar 2007
    Location Hellsinki, Finland
    Posts 134
    Rep Power 210570

    Default Re: JBL VTX V20/S25 vs multi-cellular arrays (MLA, ANYA)...still early days?

    Martin and EAW are the major players on that multicell blah blah thingie. There's nothing wrong in doing things different but here I think the problem is there's not enough pros to justify the price. D&B and L'Acoustics have very good line arrays and I know for, almost, sure that D&B will soon bring new features that will enhance not only their future products but also the older systems. So it all comes down to what is good enough and for what amount of money.
  6. #6
    Join Date Nov 2006
    Location Bexley, OH
    Posts 2,346
    Rep Power 536871118

    Default Re: JBL VTX V20/S25 vs multi-cellular arrays (MLA, ANYA)...still early days?

    Right on cue working with an MLA rig today with Steely Dan. Sounds great so far.
  7. #7
    Owns and wears an Elvis jumpsuit Abstruse Absquatulater
    Join Date Apr 2008
    Location JHB, RSA
    Posts 2,385
    Rep Power 536871101

    Default Re: JBL VTX V20/S25 vs multi-cellular arrays (MLA, ANYA)...still early days?

    Steely Dan???

    Mic up EVERYTHING with 57s and invite weedy.

    Chain him to the chair with eyeball retractors and these:



    Cheers
    Originally Posted by Slipperman
    Deny everything and claim it's all "Haas-Moeller and Graffenfrimitz" MICING techniques and CAN'T be removed from the tracks without damaging the stereo field due to the "Von Stauffenberg Effect".
    Pan Music Productions
    http://gregbester.xp3.biz
  8. #8
    Join Date Sep 2009
    Location Quake City
    Posts 11,780
    Rep Power 536871397

    Default Re: JBL VTX V20/S25 vs multi-cellular arrays (MLA, ANYA)...still early days?

    Steely Dan?

    Did they have an Osterizer at the console?

    What the heck - at least Toto wasn't there.
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  9. #9
    Frustrated Chick Rock singer...now doing jazz standards poorly! Drummer with a girlfriend...has home!
    Join Date Nov 2006
    Location Rochester, NY
    Posts 473
    Rep Power 536871055

    Default Re: JBL VTX V20/S25 vs multi-cellular arrays (MLA, ANYA)...still early days?

    When has JBL ever been at the R&D-y forefront of anything? They build solid and reliable cabinets with great drivers and eventually decentdecentprocessingoncetheyhiresomeonewhoknowsw hatthey'redoing.

    Vertec was not innovative at all. It's still kicking though
    Prior to that, the HLA's were not only late to the game, but not even the best late to the game Prism knock-off (EAW won that one if anyone had cared, with the 900's)

    Eons weren't innovative (or good)


    It's just not their game. But their game....they are VERY good at it.
  10. #10
    Join Date Nov 2006
    Location Birmingham, UK
    Posts 1,583
    Rep Power 536871092

    Default Re: JBL VTX V20/S25 vs multi-cellular arrays (MLA, ANYA)...still early days?

    Junk But Loud.
    I'm probably talking shit.

    "Mixing most 'heavy' records is like trying to find order and lucidity in a recording of a Cathedral Pipe Organ, all stops out, randomly veering between Handel's Messiah, Ginestera's 2nd and a coupla Bach Fugues, in a Titanium kitchenware foundry, while a gaggle of enraged PCP snorting gorillas with bullhorns conduct a demolition derby with cement mixers against the soothing cacophony of a nearby landslide/tsunami/heavy artillery exchange."- Slipperman

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts