Thread: NFL wants artists to pay to play Super Bowl

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  1. #21
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    Default Re: NFL wants artists to pay to play Super Bowl

    If you are on the outside of the Industry looking in I can understand your frustration, but from my perspective from the inside I understand both the reason why the Super Bowl wants it that way, as well as how the artist could benefit. There are definitely people who haven't heard of those names (I probably wouldn't know any of those names, other than Blast Eyed Peas and maybe Bruce Springsteen, if I wasn't in the Industry). Most artist's popularity and fame resides within their specific genre of music. Black Eyed Peas are an exception because they crossed over into many different genres, primarily Pop. I am sure that if the Super Bowl's plan fails they will go back to the old way. But something tells me that, no matter how unfair it could seem to the artist, their plan Won't fail, because of the hundreds of premier artists they can definitely find a few that will say Yes, which is all they need to consider their plan a success. . . My thoughts on this could change upon hearing the exact fee they plan to charge.
    You've GOT to be joking.

    I play bar trivia every Monday night which features a music round in which you have to identify the artist and the song - you'd be AMAZED what the average punter can recognize.

    The Super Bowl only goes for maximum recognition, well known artists that are pretty much household names, whether the people in the household listen to them or not. There is ZERO recognition to be gained playing the Super Bowl. None.

    You're telling me you don't know The Who? You've never watched any of the CSI shows? You've never heard of Janet Jackson? Paul McCDartney? Prince? The Rolling Stones?

    The Super Bowel* simply does not book anyone who might actually benefit from the exposure - in fact they only book artists who might increase the viewership of their spectacle. Or justify an even more inflated ticket price.


    * - typo, but I'm leaving it stand.
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  2. #22
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    Default Re: NFL wants artists to pay to play Super Bowl

    "I" know who those people are, but that doesn't mean everyone does. Example, Kanye West and Paul McCartney recently linked up. Now Kanye is one of the biggest selling hip-hop artists, Paul McCartney is one of the biggest selling artists period. They posted some pics together, his fans were asking "Who's that guy" or "You're going to make that newcomer a star". McCartney has sold at least 5 times more than Kanye. You can't let Your personal Opinion blurr Facts. And no I don't watch CSI. If there is no recognition to be gained or no benefit to performing on the Super Bowl (in your 'non-professional' opinion), then let me ask You a question -> Why Do They Perform????????????

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  3. #23
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    Default Re: NFL wants artists to pay to play Super Bowl

    "I" know who those people are, but that doesn't mean everyone does. Example, Kanye West and Paul McCartney recently linked up. Now Kanye is one of the biggest selling hip-hop artists, Paul McCartney is one of the biggest selling artists period. They posted some pics together, his fans were asking "Who's that guy" or "You're going to make that newcomer a star". McCartney has sold at least 5 times more than Kanye.
    Yes, that's the music joke of the new year.

    Is it really going to help Sir Paul sell records? Probably not. More likely he's doing it because he remembers The Beatles being slighted by the likes of Frank Sinatra and Bing Crosby and doesn't want to make himself look like an out of touch old fool - which I can totally understand. Kanye's doing it to try to make himself look "legit" to those who don't regard what he does as being real music.

    And it's actually pretty amazing how one really stupid, ignorant comment made by some idiot can go viral and suddenly be "what the kids are saying"

    But none of that has anything to do with the Super Bowl, which is a hugely profitable cash cow for an organization that claims to be a "non-profit".

    You can't let Your personal Opinion blurr Facts.
    That's a double edged sword. Back atcha!

    And no I don't watch CSI.
    I generally don't either, but I'm aware that each of the 3 shows uses a different Who song for theme music and after they did the Super Bowl the same sort of ignorant young people that made the Sir Paul comment were talking about how cool it was for the SB to have "The CSI Band".

    If there is no recognition to be gained or no benefit to performing on the Super Bowl (in your 'non-professional' opinion), then let me ask You a question -> Why Do They Perform????????????
    That's a very good question. And yes, I do have an answer that makes sense. The NFL is legally a non-profit corporation. I think they're doing it for a tax write-off.

    If the movement in the liberal/progressive community to get the NFL stripped of their non-profit status succeeds I think we'll see a very different situation.

    And FWIW I'm been in the music business for somewhere in the neighborhood of 40+ years (mostly tech side), although I've never achieved the heights that a number of the denizens of this site have reached.
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  4. #24
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    Default Re: NFL wants artists to pay to play Super Bowl

    How does the answer "The NFL is legally a non-profit...." answer the question of "Why do the artists perform for no compensation"?? Now if you are saying that artists that pay to perform would write it off, you may have an argument, but they aren't writing something off that they are neither paying for nor being compensated for. . . . And I added the McCartney part to illustrate that fact that outside of an artist's particular genre (except Pop) the artist may not be as well known, By The Masses, as within his or her genre.

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  5. #25
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    Default Re: NFL wants artists to pay to play Super Bowl

    How does the answer "The NFL is legally a non-profit...." answer the question of "Why do the artists perform for no compensation"?? Now if you are saying that artists that pay to perform would write it off, you may have an argument, but they aren't writing something off that they are neither paying for nor being compensated for. . . .
    You don't read very well, do you?

    As I said, the one answer that makes perfect sense is that it's a tax write-off. A "contribution" to a registered non-profit.

    Pay to play is still noxious. Especially since the NFL is using the half-time show to justify vastly inflated ticket prices.

    I'd suggest you look up the Wikipedia listing of Superbowl half-time acts - until quite recently it was things like the US Airforce band.

    And I added the McCartney part to illustrate that fact that outside of an artist's particular genre (except Pop) the artist may not be as well known, By The Masses, as within his or her genre.
    That's a joke. (Maybe you don't get it?)

    Maybe an orphan with no parents wouldn't know who the Beatles were (especially if they were raised on a desert island). But it really doesn't matter much - those kids won't buy Paul's records anyway. Most of them don't buy anything at all.
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  6. #26
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    Default Re: NFL wants artists to pay to play Super Bowl

    Not sure exactly what you are saying now as far as her paying to help keep advertisement prices at premium.
    Ain't that a service worth paying for?
    Imagine what the break would be without professional entertainment.
    Old farts talkin tactics.
    More ads (though less profitable by far).
    Who would stay in front of the screen? Who would not zap around?
    Youre POV is only valid when artists have nothing to offer that can be monetized by the NFL, and that is a plainly wrong assumption.
    You have bought into devaluating what your clients offer.
    And you've bought into the meme that exposure could be regarded as compensation.

    I mean, I do get your point.
    It could turn out well for a pretty unknown act to buy into superbowl and pull off a terrific show.
    But pretty unknown acts would be a risk to let on stage, so this will never happen in reality, and you know that, don't you?

    all the best,
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  7. #27
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    Default Re: NFL wants artists to pay to play Super Bowl

    My point of view is based on industry standards not by personal opinion. My personal opinion is that anyone should be compensated for work. I get paid just to speak so why shouldn't they get paid to perform. But personal opinion, for me, doesn't matter when weighed up againts facts and past practice. And as a member of The Recording Academy (which puts on the Grammy Awards) it would be wrong of me to accept the fact that the Grammy's don't pay but then fault the NFL for not paying. I look forward to seeing how it all plays out...

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  8. #28
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    Default Re: NFL wants artists to pay to play Super Bowl

    My point of view is based on industry standards not by personal opinion. My personal opinion is that anyone should be compensated for work. I get paid just to speak so why shouldn't they get paid to perform. But personal opinion, for me, doesn't matter when weighed up againts facts and past practice. And as a member of The Recording Academy (which puts on the Grammy Awards) it would be wrong of me to accept the fact that the Grammy's don't pay but then fault the NFL for not paying. I look forward to seeing how it all plays out...
    What "industry standards"?

    The "industry standards" of sharks who base their business on ripping off artists?

    If you don't understand the difference between the RIAA and the NFL you probably shouldn't be in this business, as you can't properly represent your clients.

    BTW, I checked out your 3 websites. Not impressed.
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  9. #29
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    Default Re: NFL wants artists to pay to play Super Bowl

    Your impression of me is neither required nor desired. I don't want to come off as cocky by any means but I have been in the Industry far too long to be concerned with whether You are impressed or not. I am a member of most of the music industry trade organizations and have continued to meet their strict requirements for over a decade, I have nothing to prove or to gain from a debate. The discussion isn't about Me, it was about the NFL. Stick to That.

    Smooth
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  10. #30
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    Default Re: NFL wants artists to pay to play Super Bowl

    it's nice to see Madonna and Paul McCartney and those guys finally getting a little exposure so maybe they can make it big sometime.
  11. #31
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    Default Re: NFL wants artists to pay to play Super Bowl

    My point of view is based on industry standards not by personal opinion. My personal opinion is that anyone should be compensated for work. (blahblahblah) But personal opinion, for me, doesn't matter when weighed up againts facts and past practice.
    This bothers me. You represent artists, and hopefully their best interests. You and the artists are therefore a small part of the fabric that makes up the "industry standards". By conforming to what 'everyone else is doing' you are making the problem worse. If your personal opinion is that artists should be paid for their work, then that's what you should be promoting.

    This whole "that's just the way the industry works" thing is bullshit. You are the industry.
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  12. #32
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    Default Re: NFL wants artists to pay to play Super Bowl

    I know from having been at Motown and conversations I've had with the folks both in England and the United States who were behind the Beatles that we would never have heard of either one had they followed "industry standards." Every formula is doomed to failure because every artist has a unique audience.
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  13. #33
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    Default Re: NFL wants artists to pay to play Super Bowl

    The discussion isn't about Me, it was about the NFL.
    Well, actually, if you go back and reread your posts you did kinda make it about you, lecturing us "ignorant amateurs" from you putative pillar of superiority.

    And actually, the discussion is not so much about the NFL per se as about Artist's Rights/exploitation - which, if you'd done your homework you'd know is a major concern around here.

    Your impression of me is neither required nor desired.
    No? Then why are you even here? You're pretty evidently not a recordist, either professional or amateur, or are uninterested in discussing that subject. You would appear to be trolling for clients customers. In which case the impression you make would be pretty important, no?

    I don't want to come off as cocky by any means but I have been in the Industry far too long to be concerned with whether You are impressed or not. I am a member of most of the music industry trade organizations and have continued to meet their strict requirements for over a decade,
    Well, most of those "trade organizations" don't represent artists. In fact, some of them represent aspects of the industry whose interests are at odds with (if not diametrically opposed to) those of artists.

    I have nothing to prove or to gain from a debate.
    If you say so.
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  14. #34
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    Default Re: NFL wants artists to pay to play Super Bowl

    You have to look at the industry closer. Local artists pay to perform at local venues because it helps them get noticed, builds the awareness. In the majors, typically artists would get paid to perform because now their name is bigger than the venue and they use the artists name to get people in the club ($$)..
    I don't know if local artists paying to play at a venue actually helps the local artists, more than likely it only helps whatever 'promotion company' that set it up. Even if the show flops, they really have nothing to lose.

    Around here, some of the smaller venues offer a place for artists to play, and they may not pay them beyond tips and free drinks, but none of the good clubs actually make artists pay. That's called a scam.

    Good luck with your business model, I've had the misfortune of being involved with a company who promotes that type of thinking for one or two shows in the past, and it's a shitty way to operate. On the bright side, a lot of people are aware that those companies are a joke with nothing to really offer a local artist.
  15. #35
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    Default Re: NFL wants artists to pay to play Super Bowl

    This bothers me. You represent artists, and hopefully their best interests. You and the artists are therefore a small part of the fabric that makes up the "industry standards". By conforming to what 'everyone else is doing' you are making the problem worse. If your personal opinion is that artists should be paid for their work, then that's what you should be promoting.

    This whole "that's just the way the industry works" thing is bullshit. You are the industry.
    I'm not at all sure he represents their best interests. It doesn't seem that way to me. Charging more for the individual ISRCs for an album than it would cost the artist to join the issuing entity for life and issue unlimited ISRCs themselves is not what I call working in the artists' best interests. I suspect his position is that HE should be paid for his work and that if anybody else happens to make a little that's OK, too but not much of a concern.

    I've been looking for representation recently and I've seen a plethora of that sort of operation, some less egregious than others. So far nobody I'd want to sign with - they all seem to base their business model on "representing" as many artists as possible and extracting what they can from each one, while providing generic "promotion" and "services".

    The industry has always been full of operations where the "management" makes a profit while the artists lose money. I believe the colloquial terms for them is "sharks".
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  16. #36
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    Default Re: NFL wants artists to pay to play Super Bowl

    .
  17. #37
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    Default Re: NFL wants artists to pay to play Super Bowl

    I know from having been at Motown and conversations I've had with the folks both in England and the United States who were behind the Beatles that we would never have heard of either one had they followed "industry standards." Every formula is doomed to failure because every artist has a unique audience.
    That is Correct

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  18. #38
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    Default Re: NFL wants artists to pay to play Super Bowl

    This bothers me. You represent artists, and hopefully their best interests. You and the artists are therefore a small part of the fabric that makes up the "industry standards". By conforming to what 'everyone else is doing' you are making the problem worse. If your personal opinion is that artists should be paid for their work, then that's what you should be promoting.

    This whole "that's just the way the industry works" thing is bullshit. You are the industry.
    I do promote what "I" believe. But the post wasn't what I believe, it was about artists and the NFL. I am not involved in that. But my experience in the business makes me aware of the fact that That Does happen, whether I think it's right or not. If the artists accept then its on them. If they decide to come together and fight, the RIAA would look into it. If it didn't The Recording Academy would.

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  19. #39
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    Default Re: NFL wants artists to pay to play Super Bowl

    Well, actually, if you go back and reread your posts you did kinda make it about you, lecturing us "ignorant amateurs" from you putative pillar of superiority.

    And actually, the discussion is not so much about the NFL per se as about Artist's Rights/exploitation - which, if you'd done your homework you'd know is a major concern around here.



    No? Then why are you even here? You're pretty evidently not a recordist, either professional or amateur, or are uninterested in discussing that subject. You would appear to be trolling for clients customers. In which case the impression you make would be pretty important, no?



    Well, most of those "trade organizations" don't represent artists. In fact, some of them represent aspects of the industry whose interests are at odds with (if not diametrically opposed to) those of artists.



    If you say so.
    yes artists rights is a major concern, and the primary concern of both the RIAA and The Recording Union.

    Why am I here? Because i was searching for music blogs and came across this forum. I had never heard of it until the day I posted a reply. Trolling for customers and clients?? LOL. I need not do that. With several hundred releases to manage I am not trolling for anything. Anything I could say to expand on that You would call bragging so I wont. You come off as someone who is either really young or really old, you like to argue whereas I prefer a debate based on fact.

    The trade organizations represent the best interest of the majority, as in any union situation. They have represented individual artists, even with legal proceedings, introduce bills to legislatures. I cant speak on them All, but the 8 or so that I belong to I can definitely say they are For the artists. Some differ in that some are For the Independents and some are For the Majors, but the the overall goal is the same.

    I wont go any further cause you are a different kind of person and I don't come online to argue. I'll leave that to social media.

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  20. #40
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    Default Re: NFL wants artists to pay to play Super Bowl

    Thats laughable. Not sure why I am even responding to it, I must be in a good mood. Before you seek representation I suggest you learn the industry 1st, or you will be a headache for anyone to work with. Are companies like TuneCore, CD Baby (and my own distribution company for that matter) getting over on artists for charging for distribution? iTunes, Amazon and the other major stores don't charge us a cent to ingest our music so should the artists get it free too??

    I pay my artists far more than most labels or management companies. Artists can make up to 50% versus the Industry Standard of 15% or if using the point system maybe 5 points. I go to bat for my artists, I even operate some of their Facebook and Twitter accounts, run the fan clubs, the whole 9. You have no idea who you're talking to so I will blame your ignorance and not your heart.

    If you want to speak on the NFL and artist exploitation I'm game, but other than that the convo between You and I is about done.

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