Thread: UGH! Organ Failure!

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  1. #21
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    Default Re: UGH! Organ Failure!

    Believe me, I would have much rather played it.

    But I'm in all probability the worst keyboard player in history.


    otek
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  2. #22
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    Default Re: UGH! Organ Failure!

    Believe me, I would have much rather played it.

    But I'm in all probability the worst keyboard player in history.
    That's okay... if you play the same way twice, you can call it jazz.

    jord
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  3. #23
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    Default Re: UGH! Organ Failure!

    I think the Logic 10.1.1 update screwed things up so badly that the EVB3 has actually been working for me without issues.

    Crazee...

    jord
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  4. #24
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    Default Re: UGH! Organ Failure!

    Doesn't anyone use VB3 anymore? Sure it's still 32-bit, but it works well with 32 Lives. I use it, and then the Logic Leslie. Their Leslie is just as good as L'otary, and nowhere near as CPU-intensive.
  5. #25
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    Default Re: UGH! Organ Failure!

    Believe me, I would have much rather played it.

    But I'm in all probability the worst keyboard player in history.
    Yeah, but you know a guy...
  6. #26
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    Default Re: UGH! Organ Failure!

    Yeah, but you know a guy...
    Thanks - but I'm kinda busy right now.
  7. #27
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    Default Re: UGH! Organ Failure!

    Yes........ Er, no.

    Get a real hardware organ - Hammond B3, M3 spinet, Korg CX3, lots of alternatives.

    Why would anyone want software, which is unreliable and always needs upgrades/patches/whatever when you can get the real thing which also retains its resale value?

    Yeah, the initial investment is a bit more - but it lasts. And in the long run it's a much better investment.
    Tone wheel organs are some of the easiest to emulate digitally, which is why so many professional players have gone for the "clone wheel" versions.

    If one were going to invest in a real anything, with limited space, then a piano, Rhodes, analogue synth, harpsichord, or basically anything other than a tone wheel organ would be a better investment for anyone who doesn't want tone wheel organ on every song.

    A Leslie cabinet could be a good investment for re-amping though, as that is much harder to fake.

    This used to be the favourite B3 plugin: http://www.genuinesoundware.com/?a=showproduct&b=24

    But it's not been updated in years, so 32bit only and no guarantee of OS compatibility. The company has gone into making DSP boxes, maybe because they can't be pirated?
  8. #28
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    Default Re: UGH! Organ Failure!


    Tone wheel organs are some of the easiest to emulate digitally, which is why so many professional players have gone for the "clone wheel" versions.

    If one were going to invest in a real anything, with limited space, then a piano, Rhodes, analogue synth, harpsichord, or basically anything other than a tone wheel organ would be a better investment for anyone who doesn't want tone wheel organ on every song.

    A Leslie cabinet could be a good investment for re-amping though, as that is much harder to fake.

    This used to be the favourite B3 plugin: http://www.genuinesoundware.com/?a=showproduct&b=24

    But it's not been updated in years, so 32bit only and no guarantee of OS compatibility. The company has gone into making DSP boxes, maybe because they can't be pirated?
    you're you're
    Well, that's a pretty old post responding to, but...

    "Tone wheel organs are some of the easiest to emulate digitally, which is why so many professional players have gone for the "clone wheel" versions."

    Er, no.

    The reason that most professional players have opted for "clonewheel" instruments is that they're one hell of a lot easier to lug around. Like, maybe 30 pounds instead of several hundreds? And much, much less space. That's not really a consideration for a studio organ, unless you have a very small space.

    As far as the quality of the emulation is concerned, most of them aren't bad but they're still missing something. And a controller keyboard (or, dog forbid, a mouse and computer keyboard) just does not play like a real Hammond. Hardly any even have a full set of physical drawbars.

    "f one were going to invest in a real anything, with limited space, then a piano, Rhodes, analogue synth, harpsichord, or basically anything other than a tone wheel organ would be a better investment for anyone who doesn't want tone wheel organ on every song."

    With the exception of a real piano, the same argument could be made for any of those. Synth emulations in particular. And a real acoustic grand takes up more space, costs an order of magnitude more, and requires constant maintenance by a trainer piano tuner.

    You can get an electronic instrument like the Yamaha CP-300 we have at my place that will cover a "good enough" version of most of those instruments in one box. And with MIDI it's cover most synth sounds as well.

    "This used to be the favourite B3 plugin: http://www.genuinesoundware.com/?a=showproduct&b=24

    But it's not been updated in years, so 32bit only and no guarantee of OS compatibility. The company has gone into making DSP boxes, maybe because they can't be pirated?"

    I think you just made my point about software comparability, "upgrades", and obsolescence.
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  9. #29
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    Default Re: UGH! Organ Failure!

    you're you're
    Well, that's a pretty old post responding to, but...
    Oops, my bad. I didn't look at the dates.

    The reason that most professional players have opted for "clonewheel" instruments is that they're one hell of a lot easier to lug around. Like, maybe 30 pounds instead of several hundreds? And much, much less space. That's not really a consideration for a studio organ, unless you have a very small space.
    But if the clone wheels sounded appreciably different, those players would still be using real ones. The actual tone wheels are relatively easy to emulate because they produce close to a sine wave.

    As far as the quality of the emulation is concerned, most of them aren't bad but they're still missing something. And a controller keyboard (or, dog forbid, a mouse and computer keyboard) just does not play like a real Hammond. Hardly any even have a full set of physical drawbars.
    You can say that about many virtual instruments and controller keyboards. If you're an organ player it makes sense to buy a clone wheel organ, if you just need occasional Hammond, then there are better ways to spend your money and use your space.

    With the exception of a real piano, the same argument could be made for any of those. Synth emulations in particular. And a real acoustic grand takes up more space, costs an order of magnitude more, and requires constant maintenance by a trainer piano tuner.

    You can get an electronic instrument like the Yamaha CP-300 we have at my place that will cover a "good enough" version of most of those instruments in one box. And with MIDI it's cover most synth sounds as well.
    I find digital emulations of analogue synths easier to spot than clone wheel organs. YMMV. I also always preferred uprights to grands, but that's by-the-by.

    I think you just made my point about software comparability, "upgrades", and obsolescence.
    It would work on my system, but at the end of the day it's just €50. Again, you could say the same about any software instrument.
  10. #30
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    Sushi Re: UGH! Organ Failure!

    The reason that most professional players have opted for "clonewheel" instruments is that they're one hell of a lot easier to lug around. Like, maybe 30 pounds instead of several hundreds? And much, much less space. That's not really a consideration for a studio organ, unless you have a very small space.

    As far as the quality of the emulation is concerned, most of them aren't bad but they're still missing something. And a controller keyboard (or, dog forbid, a mouse and computer keyboard) just does not play like a real Hammond. Hardly any even have a full set of physical drawbars.
    Can't argue with the above, really.

    I would love to have a real organ (as well as electric piano, and a bank of synths) here. That's the one thing I do miss having. However, space won't permit it. Not to mention that I am not as young as I used to be, so lugging that stuff around is not too high on my list anymore.

    So, the ones I use in Logic (and NI) are good enough. The "missing" element is tonality that gives it life. You can dirty the crap out of it and emulate leakage all you want, but even when it's dirty, it's still sterile. Sometimes, throwing a couple of UAD plugs on it may take it up a notch, but it is not a B3.

    One thing that does help me go a step further with it is mapping the sliders on my keyboard to the drawbars in the plug-in. I also map the knobs and buttons to some of the other controls that I can turn on and off at will. This way, I can play everything in real time and record all of the movements.

    One nice feature that admittedly I do like on Logic's organ is the mod-wheel morph capability. I can then use the mod-wheel to transition from one drawbar setting to the next, up to twelve settings in a preset. Between that and using my sustain pedal for activating the leslie sim, at least it doesn't sound like a dead organ.

    jord
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  11. #31
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    Default Re: UGH! Organ Failure!

    Yeah. Dialed in "key click" just never quite sounds like real dirty contacts. And you can't do that "Al Kooper trick" (which is not very good for the organ) of flipping the motor switches on and off to bend the pitch. Also, you can't really get wild with slamming handfuls of drawbars in and out with the rather delicate sliders on a controller - they'll break. (and since drawbars are really switches these are stepped increments when you move them.) Also "mashing" the keys and sliding up and down the keyboard really doesn't sound the same.

    And sims don't smell like Hammond oil....
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  12. #32
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    Default Re: UGH! Organ Failure!

    Miss the little tube of Hammond oil fastened to the inside of the cabinet with bread bag tiers. It's a little hard to stand on the top of a virtual organ, playing the keys - backwards while rocking the piece furiously and at the same time lashing out a nine tailed whip during Dance Macabre.

    I still prefer the VSTi to the 265 kg beast I had to haul around.
    Last edited by Knastratt; December 28th, 2015 at 01:08 PM. Reason: Oberdirndlwurst
  13. #33
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    Default Re: UGH! Organ Failure!

    I lost count of the number of M-Audio Keystations I went through before I realised this was never going to work:

  14. #34
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    Default Re: UGH! Organ Failure!

    Makes me glad the missus never saw this video. The closest we ever came to this was when when she dumped an entire pot of spaghetti sauce on my keyboard during a fight.

    jord
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    Jordan%20L.%20Chilcott
  15. #35
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    Default Re: UGH! Organ Failure!

    Where did that last knife go?

    I like to imagine he threw it at his keys tech who was pointing a gun at him.

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