Thread: micing an orchestra with choir

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  1. #1
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    Default micing an orchestra with choir

    Soo.... new thing for me.
    I'm going to mic a orchestra with coir.
    approx 40 orch and 50 coir.
    the space is described as "not the best" which i also interpret as "not the worst"

    mics i have to work with
    pair of modified mk-012's with cardi or hyper caps.
    pair of earthworks tc20k
    pair of at pro 37r's that i probably wont use.
    at4033 (which i will buy another of if i have to, as they are reliable and inexpensive.
    Blue blueberry
    rode nt2a
    slew of dynamics and a few other condensers that i'm not bothering to mention.

    3 stands that will reach approx 13' in height.
    one stereo bar.
    A slew of "standard" mic stands.

    12 channels of decent pre. (not that i anticipate using that many)

    i was thinking mk-012's in ortf front and center 9ish feet up (as a starting point)
    with the earthworks spaced wide (how wide?)
    and possibly a pair of cardi ldc's placed back on the sides of the coir as possible fills?
    possible spot mics, as needed.

    Good news: there is a dress rehearsal that i will be able to be there for, so i can play around and listen back before the real thing.

    Suggestions, comments, question, criticism all welcome as this is out of my usual stomping grounds.

    Thanks!
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: micing a orchestra with choir

    for an recording?
    or for live sound reinforcement?

    it's difficult to say without SEEING how the group needs to be set-up, which is almost certainly not within your control

    generally, in a not so good sounding room, I stay away from simple stereo pairs.
    the less "bad" room you hear, the better.
  3. #3
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    Default Re: micing a orchestra with choir

    For a recording. There is no reinforcement.
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: micing a orchestra with choir

    I suppose the biggest question is where the choir is in relation to the orchestra. If they're "stacked" on each other, you're in luck. If they're next to each other, i'd get myself another set of earthworks mics...those will be your best bets considering your other choices.
    "...but ma, audio engineering IS gainful employment!..."

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  5. #5
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    Default Re: micing a orchestra with choir

    Is a stereo directional pair over the conductor a good start? Or is that too close?
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    Default micing a orchestra with choir

    They are stacked *i believe*. I can confirm that.

    Another pair of earthworks would be out of budget.
    I might be able to swing omni caps for the oktavas. But omnis = room which again, has been described as "not great".
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    Default micing a orchestra with choir

    My contact says stacked, on risers. but she will double check.

    And correction, the orch is only 20.
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: micing a orchestra with choir

    One thing you have to consider is the knowledge/understanding of the person who told you the room was "not so great."

    That person might base their assessment on any number of factors totally unrelated to actual sonics/acoustics...such as the area for the orchestra is cramped, the audience area is not optimal for their anticipated audience size, there's limited off-stage area, etc.

    It might be a totally sweet room to record! You don't know. Yet.
    "...but ma, audio engineering IS gainful employment!..."

    "...If I wuz at that club where Miles played one note I would have bounced ONE BOTTLE off his shiny fucking coconut. What? He's Phil Glass now?..." -Slipperman

    "...never attribute to magic, that which can be explained by conspiracy."
  9. #9
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    Default Re: micing a orchestra with choir

    Is there any way you could advance the room so you have an idea what it's actually like?

    Oh, and the word "choir" contains an "h".
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

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  10. #10
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    Default Re: micing a orchestra with choir

    Is there any way you could advance the room so you have an idea what it's actually like?

    Oh, and the word "choir" contains an "h".
    that bothered you, but not 'a orchestra'?

    I considered it an toss up



    you could start with stereo pair at the conductor position,
    but the truth is you won't know until you stand there and listen whether that's going to be useful.
    It can be anywhere from 'all you need' to 'completely useless'.

    Does the concert NOT use any sound reinforcement for the audience in that hall?
    That would be a major hint in your favour.

    If you can hear the choir over the orchestra in the audience, then you have a shot your mics will 'hear' a decent balance.

    otherwise, I'd start to think about spot mics on sections and mostly mic'ing the choir.
    Last edited by weedywet; November 11th, 2014 at 05:20 AM.
  11. #11
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    Default Re: micing a orchestra with choir

    Had to leave something for you!

    And my hat is always useful.
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  12. #12
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    Default micing a orchestra with choir

    Happy to keep you guys in side work.......

    Anywho..,,
    Yes, I'm told there is to be no reinforcement.

    The room is close to me, and it will be no problem to get in there one day and have a look/listen.
    (By listen I mean clapping, talking out loud and other such contextless nonsense.)

    (*wow, it sure sounds awesome in here, I hope they all clap and say "HEY" kinda loud*)
    I was in there once many years ago to see a speaker. The stage is raised. I remember nothing about the acoustics.
    I'm a fan of cheese!
  13. #13
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    Default Re: micing a orchestra with choir

    I know as a rule this forum is very adverse to generalizing, and I understand and agree.
    However:
    Please generalize.


    Ortf over the conductor, and omnis to the side?
    Does that sound like a good starting point?
    About how high? About how wide for the omnis?
    I understand these questions lack proper context, but I won't be afraid to move them around.
    I have a 3 hr dress rehearsal, in the (all be it empty) space to play around.
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  14. #14
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    Default Re: micing a orchestra with choir

    crossed pair (more or less Blumlein) in front of conductor or over his head

    spaced mics in the corners

    spot mics on each section of the choir, and quieter aspects of the orchestra
  15. #15
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    Default Re: micing a orchestra with choir

    Bump for any other suggestions.
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  16. #16
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    Default Re: micing a orchestra with choir

    Get your stereo pair in the vicinity of the conductor. Place a spot mic in front of each section of the orchestra. Rinse, lather, repeat with the choir.
    The fact that no one understands you doesn't mean you're an artist.
  17. #17
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    Default Re: micing a orchestra with choir

    Get your stereo pair in the vicinity of the conductor. Place a spot mic in front of each section of the orchestra. Rinse, lather, repeat with the choir.

    it's almost as though I heard that somewhere already
  18. #18
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    Default Re: micing a orchestra with choir

    it's almost as though I heard that somewhere already


    Oops!
    The fact that no one understands you doesn't mean you're an artist.
  19. #19
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    Default Re: micing a orchestra with choir

    Last edited by madtheory; November 19th, 2014 at 02:27 PM.
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  20. #20
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    Default micing an orchestra with choir

    So I'm here at the rehearsal, and it's not at all what I thought she meant when she said the room was "not so great" what she meant by that was, "dead as hell".
    To the point where I may consider adding some artificial ambiance. (I don't believe they are going to let me get away with an audience mic, not that it would amount to an awful lot of help) but so far, easy enough. Things sound good and are moving along swimmingly.
    Last edited by giraffe; December 6th, 2014 at 11:22 PM.
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