Thread: Live sound mixers - recording shows for clients

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  1. #1
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    Default Live sound mixers - recording shows for clients

    Wanted to bring up the topic or recording shows.

    It's not uncommon for a group to want recording of their live shows. This seems to either be -

    stereo mics set up in the hall

    stereo board feed

    multichannel board feed (esp via digital boards which simplify this right to pro tools or via dante)

    split send from stage including possible mics added just for a record feed. perhaps separate remote.


    Your fees, your relationship with the act, and the gear on hand (or rented) are amongst the things that contribute to what happens next.

    I tend to think that recording a show is a whole different beast than mixing it live, and should include additional compensation. Also, if you are mixing it live you shouldn't be directing your attention to a multi track recording. If a separate person is brought in to do tracking and whatnot than this point is moot. I am simply considering the attention to the actual show as having your priority. Also, I am considering that acts that expect recordings of everything should have that expectation and budget built into the gig. House engineers probably shouldn't be expected to do tracking for free, but perhaps a stereo board mix might be part of the arrangement if the recording equipment is already in place. I am finding requests for recording shows are actually increasing recently. I can give them a stereo board mix to a cd burner in the house equipment pretty easily. I am probably going to suggest a modest fee (twenty bucks or something) to cover the CDRs, my extra effort, and eventually the cost of the cd recorder itself. No doubt anything multi tracked is a whole other conversation and fee. Engineers that are employed all the time by the band are likely to have that included in their contract or recording becomes part of a relationship that they grow together.

    Generally, I don't think that it should be assumed that the live sound engineer will also be recording the event, or that it should come at no cost. What does anyone else think about this?
  2. #2
    Silly Rabbit Underwater ceramic engineer
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    Default Re: Live sound mixers - recording shows for clients

    I have no problem recording the stereo feed to DAT, CD or even cassette. I have them in my FOH rack, so it's very minimal effort on my part. Any disk or tape costs are covered by them, and I cover this with them before hand.

    I have also done a few splits into my Digi 007 Rack into PT. As you said, it is much more involved requiring an additional tech to deal with that. I think the last time I did it for a local band I charged $100. No mixing involved on my part. I just burned the individual tracks to DVD and handed it over to them.
    The fact that no one understands you doesn't mean you're an artist.
  3. #3
    goes looking for thin ice to walk on Not as sentimental as those other silly valentines.
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    Default Re: Live sound mixers - recording shows for clients

    Recording the stereo feed is no problem, as long as itīs not a snapshot-show. If it is, I might be able to pull a recording feed from the system processor.

    If the client wants track by track recording itīs not really that difficult with todays digital boards. Iīm mostly on midas and our current solution is a klark network bridge going from aes50 to madi and then the digico ub-madi soundcard. Easy. When on digico I donīt even need the network bridge.
    When more mixers start having dante implemented, Iīll just need a network cable and a computer.

    Client pays extra for multitrack of course, as it requires extra equipment and preperation time.
  4. #4
    Ducked in here to avoid the paparazzi Dated Paris Hilton before she was a tramp!
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    Default Re: Live sound mixers - recording shows for clients

    Recording the stereo feed is no problem, as long as itīs not a snapshot-show. If it is, I might be able to pull a recording feed from the system processor.

    If the client wants track by track recording itīs not really that difficult with todays digital boards. Iīm mostly on midas and our current solution is a klark network bridge going from aes50 to madi and then the digico ub-madi soundcard. Easy. When on digico I donīt even need the network bridge.
    When more mixers start having dante implemented, Iīll just need a network cable and a computer.

    Client pays extra for multitrack of course, as it requires extra equipment and preperation time.
    Why not use the Klark Dante card and eliminate the Digico bit? Or the RPM Dynamics AES50 - Thunderbolt box?
  5. #5
    goes looking for thin ice to walk on Not as sentimental as those other silly valentines.
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    Default Re: Live sound mixers - recording shows for clients

    I would if I had the dante module
    The old dante card was only 32 channels, so that wasnīt really an option untill recently.

    RPM dynamics - boxes are definately interesting
  6. #6
    Spammer You ain't a beauty but hey you're alright.
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    Default Re: Live sound mixers - recording shows for clients

    The LR-16 live recorder from http://www.cymaticaudio.com/ looks quite a wheeze for recording live shows. Street price around €280, it records 16 tracks to a pendrive (for example from your mixer inserts) in 24bit without any bells or whistles.

    I might get one...
  7. #7
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    Default Re: Live sound mixers - recording shows for clients

    Killer, it's so professional that Sweetwater and Banjo Center have never even heard of it!

    http://www.vosgames.nl/
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Live sound mixers - recording shows for clients

    The LR-16 live recorder from http://www.cymaticaudio.com/ looks quite a wheeze for recording live shows. Street price around €280, it records 16 tracks to a pendrive (for example from your mixer inserts) in 24bit without any bells or whistles.

    I might get one...
    Killer, it's so professional that Sweetwater and Banjo Center have never even heard of it!

    Full Compass has it. They also have the 24 channel rack version which has much better specs. Price on the 24 is a grand.

    The big question, of course, is what are the converters like at that price?

    I just took a quick look at that site (maybe I missed something?) but it doesn't appear to be a hardware recorder - it looks like a specialized, Apple only, software solution for live recording that requires a conventional computer and interface.

    Originally Posted by vosgames
    Boom Recorder is a multitrack field recorder. It has been designed to be used during the high stress production of a tv/film shoot, a concert or a live stage performance. Boom Recorder has many metadata fields that are used during a film production, making it easy to keep track of the many audio files in post production. For concerts and live stage performances it is possible to record up to 256 (Boom Recorder Pro) tracks continuously for many hours.

    Once you have downloaded Boom Recorder you have a 30 day trial license which is equivalent to the Boom Recorder Pro license level. This will give you time to test the full production flow and decide which of the two license levels below you would like to order:
    Or perhaps they've invented some way to download hardware?
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    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  9. #9
    Spammer You ain't a beauty but hey you're alright.
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    Default Re: Live sound mixers - recording shows for clients

    Mr. Ohlsson wasn't answering my post, but rather making another suggestion.

    I've seen the Boom Recorder used often on my acting gigs. It certainly seems very stable, but I wan't involved with the sound, because I was, errrrr, acting...

    The quality of the Cytomic's converters does leave room for speculation. However, I have been told that the board is identical to that inside the Allen & Heath ICE-24, which does give grounds for optimism.

    Nevertheless, the proof of the pudding and all that...
  10. #10
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    Default Re: Live sound mixers - recording shows for clients

    That's a neat solution, you could just show up with that and a trs snake, as long as the board has outputs.
    And no, it's probably not million dollar conversion.
    But it looks a handy thing for only $400.
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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Live sound mixers - recording shows for clients

    I've often used the Zoom H4 for this. Takes a stereo feed from FOH and has onboard XY pair that is quite good sounding. You get the room plus the board. Assuming everyone did their job right, it sounds just like the gig, warts and all

    The Cymatic looks great, stereo line out for monitoring is a damn good idea. Cheaper than a JoCo Black Box too. Can they by synchronised for more tracks? Ya the outputs is always a problem. Direct outs can be a can of worms. Inserts similarly so. Plus stepping on FOH persons toes. Next up- splitters.

    The Behringer X32 is, I'm told, very good at many things, including multitrack recording.
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  12. #12
    Silly Rabbit Underwater ceramic engineer
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    Default Re: Live sound mixers - recording shows for clients

    I've always ignored everything Behringer except for the Shark, but I have had some engineers that I highly respect give it thumbs up over most mixers at that price point.
    The fact that no one understands you doesn't mean you're an artist.
  13. #13
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    Default Re: Live sound mixers - recording shows for clients

    Boom recorder is software but it turns a laptop into something more reliable than most hardware according to some film people whose opinions I trust. Combine that with one of those new MOTU AVB interfaces, Dante or the latest Avid Venue system and you're recording 64+ channels using just an Ethernet cable.
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  14. #14
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    Default Re: Live sound mixers - recording shows for clients

    Sure, if you've got budget. But if you're a band doing a gig at a small to medium venue and you want a recording of it that's probably out of your price range.

    The thing about the Cymatic stuff is that it's cheap - around $500 for 16 channels of record-only, around $1k for 24 channels of record and playback.

    Of course the thing about cheap is that you get what you pay for, but still, I'd rather have a multitrack I could mix than a badly bungled stereo board mix done by some monkey who spends most of the set at the bar. (Yes, I'm thinking of a particular gig where part of the deal was supposed to be a recording of the show.)
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  15. #15
    Ducked in here to avoid the paparazzi Dated Paris Hilton before she was a tramp!
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    Default Re: Live sound mixers - recording shows for clients

    We'll roll you a CDR for $10, or multitrack on a Tascam X-48mkII for $200 plus tax. All digital straight out of the PM1D.

    http://www.thetripledoor.net/Our-Stage/Backstage.aspx
  16. #16
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    Default Re: Live sound mixers - recording shows for clients

    We'll roll you a CDR for $10, or multitrack on a Tascam X-48mkII for $200 plus tax. All digital straight out of the PM1D.

    http://www.thetripledoor.net/Our-Stage/Backstage.aspx
    No.
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  17. #17
    Ducked in here to avoid the paparazzi Dated Paris Hilton before she was a tramp!
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    Default Re: Live sound mixers - recording shows for clients

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Live sound mixers - recording shows for clients

    An act assuming that FOH will be recorded at one of my gigs is in for a shock. Talk to me about it beforehand and we can come to an arrangement. Most of the time I'm on a CL or QL so a CAT5, DVS and Reaper is all I need for multitrack, and I would agree a fee with the act in advance. I wouldn't normally charge for a board feed unless it's recording onto my own personal gear. The business I work for would usually only charge for the gear unless it needs serious tomfoolery after the fact.
    I'm probably talking shit.

    "Mixing most 'heavy' records is like trying to find order and lucidity in a recording of a Cathedral Pipe Organ, all stops out, randomly veering between Handel's Messiah, Ginestera's 2nd and a coupla Bach Fugues, in a Titanium kitchenware foundry, while a gaggle of enraged PCP snorting gorillas with bullhorns conduct a demolition derby with cement mixers against the soothing cacophony of a nearby landslide/tsunami/heavy artillery exchange."- Slipperman
  19. #19
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    Default Re: Live sound mixers - recording shows for clients



    I just looked up your tech specs on the website. Pretty impressive, actually. Your "House feed" is actually a separate mix, not a house mix.
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????

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