Thread: Pomplamoose touring

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  1. #1
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    Default Pomplamoose touring

    Nicely written article that explains tour money nicely to the uninitiated.

    https://medium.com/@jackconte/pompla...s-67435851ba37
    Last edited by pounce; November 25th, 2014 at 05:19 AM.
  2. #2
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    Default Re: Pomplamoose touring

    Tour what?....
    Bob's room 615 562-4346
    Georgetown Masters 615 254-3233
    Interview
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Pomplamoose touring

    I see what you did there

    It's hard to explain how in this century you essentially don't get to sell your music, you don't make it on streaming, and the reality is that touring isn't the magic answer either. It's a little depressing actually.

    All of that and my taste in gear and synthesizers has gotten more expensive than ever before. crap.

    The live shows I work on, theatre and concerts, cost a LOT of money. People would be astounded at the cost of putting on the shows I work on. Simpletons discussing making a living on live shows and giving away the music otherwise clearly don't have a handle on the real numbers involved in all of that. It's nice to see that size of a band talking about it's earnings and expenses.
  4. #4
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    Default Re: Pomplamoose touring

    Interesting article, thanks for posting.

    Also interesting: whatever "Medium" is, it's the only site (other than an actual forum, of course) where I have seen comments that aren't a shameful and putrid waste of bytes. I even read one that was thoughtful and polite. What is this, Bizarro Internet? (Wow, spell check knows "Bizarro.")

    Here's my question: Wouldn't you want to hire a manager before putting together a tour with that level of complexity? OMG, I sure would. I'm pretty sure I would much, much rather have a manager than a light show if it meant I could think about music instead of trying to get all the publicity to happen right.
  5. #5
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    Default Re: Pomplamoose touring

    Interesting article, thanks for posting.

    Also interesting: whatever "Medium" is, it's the only site (other than an actual forum, of course) where I have seen comments that aren't a shameful and putrid waste of bytes. I even read one that was thoughtful and polite. What is this, Bizarro Internet? (Wow, spell check knows "Bizarro.")
    Then again you've got comments like this, which might restore your conception of internet manners.

    By the way, I really think this guy has a point, in spite of his vitriolic way to put it.
    My fist thought was: OK, you're selling noteworthy tickets and merch, and don't break even,
    what are you guys and gals doing wrong?

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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Pomplamoose touring

    It's their costs.

    I wonder if it would have been more cost effective to go with tour buses and travel overnight, rather than accommodate everyone in motels overnight.

    I imagine they crunched those numbers, and looked at cheaper motels, but for sanity's sake there is a limit to how cheap you can go and not end up with diseases or bed bug bites.

    Cheers,
    Tim
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    Default Pomplamoose touring

    It's their costs.

    I wonder if it would have been more cost effective to go with tour buses and travel overnight, rather than accommodate everyone in motels overnight.

    I imagine they crunched those numbers, and looked at cheaper motels, but for sanity's sake there is a limit to how cheap you can go and not end up with diseases or bed bug bites.

    Cheers,
    Tim
    I also get the impression that they were just "doing it big". Possibly only aiming to break even.

    Either; tickets undersold, they grossly overestimated the merch they would sell, or they said "fuck it, let's go do it like we want".
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    Default Re: Pomplamoose touring

    Then again you've got comments like this, which might restore your conception of internet manners.

    By the way, I really think this guy has a point, in spite of his vitriolic way to put it.
    My fist thought was: OK, you're selling noteworthy tickets and merch, and don't break even,
    what are you guys and gals doing wrong?

    All the best,
    the keks
    His whole post read like sour grapes grousing from somebody who has spent a decade playing in shitty punk bands who make ends meet on "tour" by crashing on the floors of their fellow shitty punk bands and eating at Jack In The Box.

    And sniping at the band because he doesn't like their music? Really? Granted, Pomplammose isn't exactly my cup of tea either, but there are thousands of people who love them.

    Come on, Spencer, some people try to approach this from a level maybe a bit higher than crappy kiddie band level. Some people believe in paying their employees. Some people believe in giving their fans a good show and not relying on the club's "technical crew" to meet the standards of their performance.

    I think Spencer needs to grow up.
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Pomplamoose touring

    I kinda love that they chose to bring a proper band and do it as big as they could. That's great. As far as the money goes this is a reminder that the whole thing is a crap shoot. You never know how many tickets and how many shirts and cd's and such will get sold until it's all over. Things like this could go either way. This could have been a financial windfall and going big could have paid off. In this case it's what made it worth doing but ultimately prevented them from profiting.

    I am not impressed with the armchair critics who can tell you after the fact what they would have done differently. I've seen bigger shows than theirs both reap in profits and lose tons of money. If people truly knew in advance how it would work out this would be a different conversation. Every day someone wanting to do shows goes to some amount of risk to make it happen. Peeking at their rough numbers helps instill a little bit of reality into the conversation that starts with "artists should give away their music and make up the money at live shows".
  10. #10
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    Default Re: Pomplamoose touring

    His whole post read like sour grapes grousing from somebody who has spent a decade playing in shitty punk bands who make ends meet on "tour" by crashing on the floors of their fellow shitty punk bands and eating at Jack In The Box...
    Now, I don't agree with Mr. Eppstein very often, but he pretty much nailed this.
  11. #11
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    Default Re: Pomplamoose touring

    That's pretty cool (although the story details are not all that cool, I mean, just the glimpse of reality).

    God knows how many of us have inevitably, at maybe more than one point, run into the sorts of halfwits who say something along the lines of "well, like, dude, even if a band's not real huge n'stuff, like, if they play 500 seat theaters, and sell tickets for only 20 dollars, they're making 10,000 bucks a show! how awesome is that!".

    One other thing, to Halligan's point... I have no clue... what are the costs of renting a decent tour bus? Does it stack up to where it really ends up being slightly better in the ledger to just do cheap hotels and pile into the gear truck and a rental car early the next morning to schlep to Nextshowville?

    (INcidentally, I didn't notice anything about transportation in the article, other than "van rental", so I guess it was all 6 of them piled into the truck.)


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  12. #12
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    Default Re: Pomplamoose touring

    Pretty good sized tour for a mediocre cover band.

    Fortunately for them, it's just publicity for their real cash cow, Patreon:

    Patreon, based in San Francisco, is a crowdfunding platform created by musician Jack Conte and developer Sam Yam. [1] It allows artists to obtain funding from patrons on a recurring basis or per artwork. [2] It is popular with YouTube content creators, musicians, and webcomic artists and has been featured in Forbes, Time, and Billboard magazines.
    Patreon was founded in May 2013 by artist Jack Conte, who was looking for a way to make a living from his popular YouTube videos.[3] Together with Sam Yam he developed a platform that allows patrons to donate a set amount of money every time an artist creates a work of art. The company raised $2.1 million in August 2013 from a group of venture capitalists and angel investors. In June 2014 the company raised a further $15 million in a series A round led by Danny Rimer of Index Ventures.[6]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patreon
    Follow the money, not the lack thereof.
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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Pomplamoose touring

    Good looking out - it's a bit disingenuous of Mr Conte not to have mentioned that connection in the piece.
  14. #14
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    Default Re: Pomplamoose touring

    A few little problems I have with his blog....

    First,
    We also knew that once we hit the road, we would be paying our band and crew on a weekly basis. One week of salaries for four musicians and two crew members (front of house engineer and tour manager) cost us $8794. That came out to $43,974 for the tour.
    Nataly coordinated the logistics of the tour, herself
    Isn't that something a tour manager does? Just what the fuck did you pay him for? And, it is quite commonplace anymore for the FOH engineer to take on tour managing duties as well, except on much much larger shows. A bit more pay for him and one less person on the road to pay, feed and house.

    Attachment 12806

    That's more like 30 foot worth of van and trailer, not the 42 feet mentioned in the blog. I'm thinking his parking costs were a bit exaggerated.

    While we're on that subject, that's not just some "van". Those sprinters set up for hauling people around like that are pretty damn nice. I'm guessing they're into that for $1k per week with a month lease agreement. A tour bus from a reputable company is going to run $17.5K to $20K for a month, plus driver. A touring band would consider what they would be getting for that amount of money just adequate. However, it would be the Taj Mahal to these guys. There are going to be some hotel expenses, because even heathens are going to start demanding a shower after a few days of riding around in a bus.

    They damn sure didn't haul around very many lights in that 10 foot UHaul.
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    Default Re: Pomplamoose touring

    Good looking out - it's a bit disingenuous of Mr Conte not to have mentioned that connection in the piece.
    Why is it disingenuous? If I own, e.g a corner liquor store does that have anything to do with my tour finances?

    No, it does not. They are separate businesses.

    I think it's great the Mr Conte saw fit to make public the truth about the finances of touring as a mid level act. If only more artists would have the balls to do so.
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
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  16. #16
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    Default Re: Pomplamoose touring

    Yes, I agree. While he was always forward about his role with Patreon, I think the gist of the post as it relates generally to the costs and cash related to touring are useful information. We can after the fact quarterback this all we want, I think it's a useful general indicator of that level of touring. I have no opinion of the band or those folks personally.

    Some people do turn a profit touring. Some don't. It's a crapshoot, and it's more expensive to tour than most non touring people realize. Touring isn't a magic all profit avenue for musicians.
  17. #17
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    Default Re: Pomplamoose touring

    Yes, I agree. While he was always forward about his role with Patreon, I think the gist of the post as it relates generally to the costs and cash related to touring are useful information. We can after the fact quarterback this all we want, I think it's a useful general indicator of that level of touring. I have no opinion of the band or those folks personally.

    Some people do turn a profit touring. Some don't. It's a crapshoot, and it's more expensive to tour than most non touring people realize. Touring isn't a magic all profit avenue for musicians.
    Your right. I guess I shouldn't have nitpicked. Their tour does, however, seem to have been not much more than an ego trip. A rather expensive one.

    It is a good example to show that 1/2 million Youtube subscribers, several million views and who how knows how many iTunes downloads does not necessarily equate to enough people willing to part with their money to come see you live. I would like to see their advertisement budget. Perhaps if they had put more $$$ there than into something else they might have had more asses in the seats.
    Last edited by nitronick; November 29th, 2014 at 08:34 AM.
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    Default Re: Pomplamoose touring

    Your right. I guess I shouldn't have nitpicked.


    NITPICKED?????

    Is that what you call it?

    To me it looked a lot more like a vicious attack on a band trying to publicize the realities of touring (you don't make any money unless you're AC/DC) in these
    days of the "noo model".\

    Their tour does, however, seem to have been not much more than an ego trip. A rather expensive one.

    Who the fuck are YOU to say that? That seems pretty fucking presumptuous to me. Tell you what - why don't you go out on tour, try to bring in enough to support a band and crew and not have them come back home broke and owing rent on their apartments and report to us about it?

    Been there, done that, lost my beloved '58 J-200 behind it.


    It is a good example to show that 1/2 million Youtube subscribers, several million views and who how knows how many iTunes downloads does not necessarily equate to enough people willing to part with their money to come see you live. I would like to see their advertisement budget. Perhaps if they had put more $$$ there than into something else they might have had more asses in the seats.
    No.

    It's an illustration that the techie propaganda about making your money touring because they fucking steal you record sales is BULLSHIT!

    And I think it's utterly AMAZING that Pomplamoose, the former darling of the techie ripoffs saying that you can make enough off Yootoob plays to survive has the balls to come out and tell the truth.

    Kudos to Pomplamoose!
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  19. #19
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    Default Re: Pomplamoose touring

    NITPICKED?????

    Is that what you call it?

    To me it looked a lot more like a vicious attack on a band trying to publicize the realities of touring (you don't make any money unless you're AC/DC) in these
    days of the "noo model".\

    Yea nitpicked. I didn't attack anybody. I only pointed out a couple of anomalies in his blog.

    Who the fuck are YOU to say that? That seems pretty fucking presumptuous to me. Tell you what - why don't you go out on tour, try to bring in enough to support a band and crew and not have them come back home broke and owing rent on their apartments and report to us about it?

    Been there, done that, lost my beloved '58 J-200 behind it.
    I stand by my ego statement. I know many touring bands. From regional to national acts. I can guarantee you they aren't stepping out of their door only to go in the hole. There's plenty of information and people with decades of experience out there to not have to take such a risk.


    No.

    It's an illustration that the techie propaganda about making your money touring because they fucking steal you record sales is BULLSHIT!

    And I think it's utterly AMAZING that Pomplamoose, the former darling of the techie ripoffs saying that you can make enough off Yootoob plays to survive has the balls to come out and tell the truth.

    Kudos to Pomplamoose!
    Again, all of those youtoob watching techies didn't come out to watch them. That what I was addressing.
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  20. #20
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    Default Re: Pomplamoose touring

    Why is it disingenuous? If I own, e.g a corner liquor store does that have anything to do with my tour finances?

    No, it does not. They are separate businesses.

    I think it's great the Mr Conte saw fit to make public the truth about the finances of touring as a mid level act. If only more artists would have the balls to do so.
    Dunno, let me be the devil's advocate here for a minute.
    First question: Is group of people who keep their online audience entertained with highly arranged and extravagantly produced music videos necessarily a real world mid level touring band? OK, the Fillmore was kinda packed (not sold out, though), how about the other shows?
    Second question: If the tour is side business or even potential loss leader, does it make Pomplamoose a good example for expenses and accounting on the road?


    Yes, I agree. While he was always forward about his role with Patreon, I think the gist of the post as it relates generally to the costs and cash related to touring are useful information. We can after the fact quarterback this all we want, I think it's a useful general indicator of that level of touring. I have no opinion of the band or those folks personally.

    Some people do turn a profit touring. Some don't. It's a crapshoot, and it's more expensive to tour than most non touring people realize. Touring isn't a magic all profit avenue for musicians.
    You're right.
    Sadly it looks a bit like the right information from the wrong people.
    Youtube hits not necessarily equal street cred, and as much as I think their numbers are not way off, and their planning was not too optimistic,, I think they did their cause a disservice.

    All the best,
    the keks
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