1. #61
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    Default Re: things performers do on stage at shows - what works and what fails?

    they weren't windmilling, but the headshaking ooohs and the bows from the waist were every bit as much "just a show"
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    Default Re: things performers do on stage at shows - what works and what fails?

    they weren't windmilling, but the headshaking ooohs and the bows from the waist were every bit as much "just a show"
    Indeed - and every bit of footage from that era shows Ringo having the best time of his life.

    I suppose one could be jaded and say that it's all scripted but even today, when my bandmates and I play an early Beatles song for fun, it's pretty much expected of me slosh the hats in the same manner as Ringo.
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    Default Re: things performers do on stage at shows - what works and what fails?

    The "headshaking ooohs" might have initially been spontaneous. Once they discovered it was a sort of "secret weapon", it became staged, "part of the act". NTTAWWT

    But it only worked for the Beatles. They could count on it signalling large numbers of adolescent girls that it was the appropriated time for a group scream.

    One could make the argument that most of the rest of it, nodding one's head, tapping one's foot -- even shaking one's ass -- is behavior elicited by the mere act of playing Rock & Roll. Even if nobody's watching. It is the devil's music, lest we forget.

    Paul smiling and making eye contact with the audience does seem to be pure showmanship but it can be hard to separate that which is contrived from the performer having a good time and feeding off the energy of the crowd.
    Man! You have GOT to try a hit of this RANGE SUNSHINE!

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  4. #64
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    Default Re: things performers do on stage at shows - what works and what fails?

    One should never strut around the stage naked, smeared in goose fat with a green enamel bedpan strapped to his/hers right foot doing figure eights.

    Backward jellyfish, under-the-umbrella jay walk, sinister air hops or even doing double inward cleftstretches are ok.

    Just not any figure eights.

    Disgusting!

    Drenkmann-Kleivitz manouvres can work as well. In moderation. Diverted Lhasa jumps, too. If they're not unhealthily spaced apart. That's a deal breaker.

    If you substitute the bed pan with something large, placebo coloured, and shake your fist vigorously in a motion perpendicular to realty (as we know it)- it might work.

    On Thursdays.

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    Last edited by Knastratt; January 3rd, 2015 at 03:28 AM. Reason: Optional
  5. #65
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    Default Re: things performers do on stage at shows - what works and what fails?

    I think performers also need to adjust what they do to the size of the room and audience. It's about being for real and not a poser as opposed to any specific moves.
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    Default Re: things performers do on stage at shows - what works and what fails?

    In spite of being an excellent dancer (except when I have to haul around a girl) I feel no interest in moving to the music while performing. I need all my focus to let my emotion flow in order to create maximum impact performance. At rare occasions that might get expressed by way of spontaneous bodily contortions. But mostly - no.

    I'm more of a Miles Davis on this. I don't mind sitting in a sofa, face the back door, handstands, next town etc.

    If you get the feeling I cheated you of smart moves while you watched me - I'll gladly tap dance and recite Goethe afterwards.

    I hope by God (Allah, Bhagwan, Demiurg etc) my concerts won't be judged by the lack of double inward cleftstretches and such.

    NTTAWWT!
    Last edited by Knastratt; January 4th, 2015 at 08:20 PM. Reason: Optional
  7. #67
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    Default Re: things performers do on stage at shows - what works and what fails?

    I think authenticity is the most important part, and many flavors of successful showmanship arise from it. Successful doesn't have to mean high energy.
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    Default Re: things performers do on stage at shows - what works and what fails?

    I think performers also need to adjust what they do to the size of the room and audience. It's about being for real and not a poser as opposed to any specific moves.
    Perfect (again).

    You could apply this to drummers that can only seem to know how to play ffff in 30 seat-clubs.
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  9. #69
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    Default Re: things performers do on stage at shows - what works and what fails?

    I've been reading through this as it has wandered over its course, and I think maybe the biggest point was that there are no rules. What works? That depends.

    I was about to jump in and comment on the thread a while back and had to drop that and do something. I remember that I was about to say something to the effect that artifice wasn't a good thing, and then I immediately thought, hang on. That's not right, either. For some, maybe the whole thing is artifice, it's all crafted theater, carefully thought out and planned out, and for some things, that's exactly right, and some sudden spontaneity would ruin it.

    For other things, planning out some whole scripted choreography would ruin it.

    Some people make a real show, maybe a great show, while being pretty low key and even relatively still while performing, with the focus being on playing the music, which, in many cases, is disrupted by a bunch of moving around.

    Basically, I think it comes down to whatever makes you take it all in from the audience and think that what's happening just seems right. What "right" might be, for that, in that place and that moment, could be a hell of a lot different for something else.

    You could go to shows by A and then B, and think they're both perfect, and if you could then have A do everything onstage like B, and B do everything on stage just like A, it might not just fail to "work", it could seem comically stupid.

    You can probably make your own list of examples.

    From a slightly different angle... myself, I do think that it is alright, and maybe a good idea in terms of what's "right", to consider age, passing time, changes beyond aging. In other words... dude, you're 65... it really IS alright to not pretend you're still 25, in fact... it might be better if you didn't. It's alright, we understand.

    There was also the comment earlier about, what was it, appropriate for the room and so on.

    I mean, it's pretty comical to watch guys on stage in a club playing rockstar acting out projecting to the upper-deck crowd 200 feet away in the arena... except they're in a club where the back wall is 50 feet away, and they're looking (and waving, pointing, humping, whatever) at the ceiling that's 5 feet above their head.

    Which maybe takes me to what I might say is what doesn't work, in my book, which is when something is totally scripted and choreographed but trying to pretend it's wild and spontaneous. That can lose me pretty fast... but even that... well, it depends.


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    Default Re: things performers do on stage at shows - what works and what fails?

    I've been reading through this as it has wandered over its course, and I think maybe the biggest point was that there are no rules. What works? That depends...
    I just did the same, and came to the same conclusion. Nobby said it earlier, too, in terms of presentation appropriate to the music.

    But there is another factor:

    As demonstrated in this thread, no-one can agree on what makes a good show. It is also reliant on the audience. Entertainment is in the eye of the beholder.

    Some bands get away with lots of banter, some bands get away with sitting on stools and noodling, some bands get away with diving at the drum kit...

    The hardest one to pull off is looking awkward on stage, but even a rare few manage to make that compelling.

    Horses for courses, whatever floats your boat etc. blah blah...
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    Default Re: things performers do on stage at shows - what works and what fails?

    Horses for courses, whatever floats your boat etc. blah blah...
    I can go with tht for the most part

    I just CAN'T go with being any more critical of a band that 'misses the mark' by trying too hard or "being phony" than I can of a band that equally misses the mark by "sitting on stools and noodling" and not trying at all.
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    Default Re: things performers do on stage at shows - what works and what fails?

    I can go with tht for the most part

    I just CAN'T go with being any more critical of a band that 'misses the mark' by trying too hard or "being phony" than I can of a band that equally misses the mark by "sitting on stools and noodling" and not trying at all.
    Yeah, I wouldn't be more critical of that either.

    The one thing that I personally look for in a live performance is that it is different from the record. Like you said, if I wanted to hear the record then I that's what I'd do.

    Having said that, some people like concerts to basically be a mass karaoke session, and I wouldn't begrudge them that.

    The example Pounce gave in the OP of the singer spending the whole gig only visible to a few people in the front row is a different deal though: only a small proportion of the audience were entertained, so I'd call that a stagecraft failure.

    I do think that performance is largely ignored by many bands. Just playing your songs in front of people is not the same as giving them a performance. Even if the band never speak or move around, you can still bring an element of theatre to it.
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    Default Re: things performers do on stage at shows - what works and what fails?

    I do think that performance is largely ignored by many bands. Just playing your songs in front of people is not the same as giving them a performance. Even if the band never speak or move around, you can still bring an element of theatre to it.

    exactly.
    if you're going to stand still like a statue, then perhaps you need the videos and lights and smoke bombs and dancers and elephants...
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    Default Re: things performers do on stage at shows - what works and what fails?

    It's about engaging the audience and really no different than dating. A performer and their fans are a relationship.
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    Default Re: things performers do on stage at shows - what works and what fails?

    There’s a good sized middle ground between the overwrought flailing about that has become de rigueur for rock acts these days, and standing still like a stone statue.

    I never remember Stevie Ray Vaughan, Ella Fitzgerald, or Jeff Beck, being boring, or still life, but neither were they prancing around the stage, to prove their artistic angst, either.
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    Default Re: things performers do on stage at shows - what works and what fails?

    It's about engaging the audience and really no different than dating.
    Both about getting laid.
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    Default Re: things performers do on stage at shows - what works and what fails?

    I was messing around on Youtube yesterday and ran across this:

    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

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  18. #78
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    Default Re: things performers do on stage at shows - what works and what fails?

    I've decided to push my answers on the forum by one topic so: yes, the AT 5040 can be connected without too much hassle.

    Cheers - P
  19. #79
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    Default Re: things performers do on stage at shows - what works and what fails?

    I've decided to push my answers on the forum by one topic so: yes, the AT 5040 can be connected without too much hassle.

    Cheers - P
    Not if you forgot the mic cable.

    Cheers - E

    I dunno, Iggy Pop goes nuts, it seems as natural as your morning sit down. The Red Hot Chili Peppers pull it off, as do a lot of others. Perhaps because they're still bringing it so hard, musically.

    I'll forgive flailing and statue, if the music still has some magic.
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    Default Re: things performers do on stage at shows - what works and what fails?

    The Red Hot Chili Peppers pull it off
    As long as they don't pull their socks off.
    Man! You have GOT to try a hit of this RANGE SUNSHINE!

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    Never underestimate the amount of contempt a failed musician has for those of us who are still trying.
    If the party's good enough, you can actually suck to a remarkable degree.

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