Thread: The weedywet 4-5 mic drum technique

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  1. #361
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    Default Re: The weedywet 4-5 mic drum technique

    Isanyoneelsehavingthespacebarnotworkinguntilyoupre ssenterproblem?

    In a wee change of direction...

    What do we think about putting two mics on a kick drum? I've been mixing a project where I stuck an RE20 out front in a tent of blankets, and put the one mic I had left - an Audix I5 - in the drum close to the batter head to get more clicky transient.

    I don't like it.

    It took me a while to work it out, but I prefer the sound with just the RE-20. It sounds like a kick drum. When I use the two mics I'm having to EQ them both differently to get something usable and complimentary from each mic, and that seems to change the phase relationships and make it seem less real. With just one mic, it sounds real when I close my eyes. Even if I have to add 10dB at 8kHz to get the amount of click I want, I'd rather do that than even sneak in the I5, because for anything it adds it takes more away.

    Obviously there are a million variables that can generate this outcome from shit mic placement to bad mic choice to not tuning or dampening the kick right. But I'm just wondering what experiences you guys have had.
  2. #362
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    Default Re: The weedywet 4-5 mic drum technique

    I stopped the tents and other separation bs when I realized using a front of kit mike as the main pickup and the kick mikes as fills sounded better.
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  3. #363
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    Default Re: The weedywet 4-5 mic drum technique

    I've had cases where I wished the room mics had separation from the kick.
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  4. #364
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    Default Re: The weedywet 4-5 mic drum technique

    I stopped the tents and other separation bs when I realized using a front of kit mike as the main pickup and the kick mikes as fills sounded better.
    I'd be very interested in hearing more details about how you use this setup if possible. I don't record drums too often, but when I do, for the last few years I tend to rely mostly on one LDC FOK mic. Usually placed in between the top of the kick and cymbals as far as height, and also trying to align the diaphragm so that it makes a straight line across the center of the kick and snare.

    I feel like I've had better results that way than anything else I've tried, but I'm always open to experimenting and trying/learning new things.
  5. #365
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    Default Re: The weedywet 4-5 mic drum technique

    I've only been recording session drummers so I set up every mike I think I might want and sort it out after the fact.
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  6. #366
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    Default Re: The weedywet 4-5 mic drum technique

    Good advice!

    Lately I've found the under-the-snare mike to be a helpful addition.

    Sometimes it isn't desirable, sometimes it's a missing key ingredient that makes a definite, positive difference.
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  7. #367
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    Default Re: The weedywet 4-5 mic drum technique

    I've only been recording session drummers so I set up every mike I think I might want and sort it out after the fact.
    I think the key phrase there is "I think I might want"

    That's very different than the people who "mic everything", perhaps multiple ways, and then hope it all works later.

    But I find for my brain, that I need to hear it all working 'right' for me, with the whole rest of the band, in the moment, and know what I need to change, if anything, right then and there.

    Having said that, I will certainly decide after the fact to use the overhead or not, or how much room mic to use, etc.

    But I don't feel comfortable having wildly divergent "options' lurking somewhere (e.g. under tom mics, or second bass drum mics, etc.)
    Last edited by weedywet; November 5th, 2016 at 06:13 AM.
  8. #368
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    Default Re: The weedywet 4-5 mic drum technique

    Isanyoneelsehavingthespacebarnotworkinguntilyoupre ssenterproblem?

    In a wee change of direction...

    What do we think about putting two mics on a kick drum? I've been mixing a project where I stuck an RE20 out front in a tent of blankets, and put the one mic I had left - an Audix I5 - in the drum close to the batter head to get more clicky transient.

    I don't like it.

    It took me a while to work it out, but I prefer the sound with just the RE-20. It sounds like a kick drum. When I use the two mics I'm having to EQ them both differently to get something usable and complimentary from each mic, and that seems to change the phase relationships and make it seem less real. With just one mic, it sounds real when I close my eyes. Even if I have to add 10dB at 8kHz to get the amount of click I want, I'd rather do that than even sneak in the I5, because for anything it adds it takes more away.

    Obviously there are a million variables that can generate this outcome from shit mic placement to bad mic choice to not tuning or dampening the kick right. But I'm just wondering what experiences you guys have had.
    Chuck that shitty one out, if it sounds better with out it.
    Only problem is, adding that much high end to a kick out mic may make the cymbals sound like poo, especially if there is anything more then very mild compression involved.
    Ymmv
    A good kick out really is a much better, more natural sounding position.
    Again, ymmv.


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  9. #369
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    Default Re: The weedywet 4-5 mic drum technique

    Isanyoneelsehavingthespacebarnotworkinguntilyoupre ssenterproblem?

    In a wee change of direction...

    What do we think about putting two mics on a kick drum? I've been mixing a project where I stuck an RE20 out front in a tent of blankets, and put the one mic I had left - an Audix I5 - in the drum close to the batter head to get more clicky transient.

    I don't like it.

    It took me a while to work it out, but I prefer the sound with just the RE-20. It sounds like a kick drum. When I use the two mics I'm having to EQ them both differently to get something usable and complimentary from each mic, and that seems to change the phase relationships and make it seem less real. With just one mic, it sounds real when I close my eyes. Even if I have to add 10dB at 8kHz to get the amount of click I want, I'd rather do that than even sneak in the I5, because for anything it adds it takes more away.

    Obviously there are a million variables that can generate this outcome from shit mic placement to bad mic choice to not tuning or dampening the kick right. But I'm just wondering what experiences you guys have had.
    I hate clicky kick drums.
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  10. #370
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    Default Re: The weedywet 4-5 mic drum technique

    I like the click for some things, Rock specifically. If you're talking about the kind of Metal in which the kick is mostly click, I'm not crazy about that either, but it boils down to a matter of taste.

    And I can't listen to too much music that requires brushes on the snare -- so there!
    Man! You have GOT to try a hit of this RANGE SUNSHINE!

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  11. #371
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    Default Re: The weedywet 4-5 mic drum technique

    I think the key phrase there is "I think I might want"


    ...I find for my brain, that I need to hear it all working 'right' for me, with the whole rest of the band, in the moment, and know what I need to change, if anything, right then and there.
    In my case, we needed to nail four to six tracks in three hours. I started doing this working in studios where I didn't trust the monitoring but knew a 57 from across the room would sound better than most with the drummer we were using. I found much to my surprise that different setups worked better for different songs. I was also surprised to hear an overhead with just a touch of under-snare with the polarity flipped could sound incredible.

    This method is only practical in digital. Analog gets castrated by gap scatter so most of the drum mixing needs to happen in the console.
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  12. #372
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    Default Re: The weedywet 4-5 mic drum technique

    Also check your phase, and some times you need to face murder the 1.5khz (approx) area in an internal Kik mic.


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  13. #373
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    Default Re: The weedywet 4-5 mic drum technique

    Only problem is, adding that much high end to a kick out mic may make the cymbals sound like poo, especially if there is anything more then very mild compression involved.
    If

    Rarely compress kick mics much. Actually, the den cut out a phenomenal amount of spill, was quite surprised how effective it was. Started with a den of 3 seat cushions for structural stability, here's the first one in place along with mic position;

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    Then the duvet covered the gaps.

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    And the result is that cymbals just aren't much of an issue in the kick mic, which is nice.

    I hate clicky kick drums.

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  14. #374
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    Default Re: The weedywet 4-5 mic drum technique

    How does the den/tunnel affect your room mic or out front mic? Does it unbalance the overall kit sound? Is the cure for that just adding in the kick mic as needed, or does using a tunnle like that change what your options are for the other mics.

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  15. #375
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    Default Re: The weedywet 4-5 mic drum technique

    How does the den/tunnel affect your room mic or out front mic? Does it unbalance the overall kit sound? Is the cure for that just adding in the kick mic as needed, or does using a tunnle like that change what your options are for the other mics.

    -r


    To be honest, I don't think it's a major difference for this production. The kick is slightly muffled, but the low end goes straight through through the blankets anyway. Maybe the kick is diffused across in the stereo image, but since I'm getting most of its tone from the kick mic I don't think it matters too much.

    If I was mostly wanting the kick's tone as part of the overall capture from the kit/ room mics, I suppose I'd have to make a judgement call.
  16. #376
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    Default Re: The weedywet 4-5 mic drum technique

    maybe this musical instruments and very nice
    Sure...
  17. #377
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    Default Re: The weedywet 4-5 mic drum technique

    How does the den/tunnel affect your room mic or out front mic?
    I find that I often like the kick mic slightly attenuated/muffled in the room mics.

    otek
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