Thread: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

Results 1 to 20 of 70

  1. #1
    Join Date Jan 2015
    Location Northern Colorado
    Posts 967
    Rep Power 536870972

    Default PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    I'm curious as to what some thoughts on this are, but I was watching some pro tools tutorials this evening and heard him say something interesting. He proposed that generally a mixer coming from a players perspective will opt for panning the drums from the drummers perspective. He didn't say exactly who the group was that would generally prefer panning them from the audience perspective, but I'll surmise that to be people like me, who come more from an engineer or FOH background?

    With a sample size of 1, me, he is accurate. I tend to think of the mix as someone sitting in the audience. I equate that to my time doing FOH. The little bit I've played with others, it was never in a performance setting, it was a basement or garage setting where we all sat and faced each other. It was interesting, so I thought I'd see what others thought.

    -r
    Sign Here

    X________________________________________________
  2. #2
    Roadside Outcast Dept. Short-rope candidate
    Join Date Nov 2006
    Location On location...
    Posts 5,062
    Rep Power 536871207

    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    To quote Slippy: "Drummer's perspective. There is no other perspective."

    Try both. Pan it the way it feels most "right" to you.

    However...if you are mixing to picture - say a concert DVD or something similar - then audience perspective is almost mandatory....so don't change perspective on each cut.

    Cheers,
    Tim
    Don't forget, we are all engaged in a battle to the death against mediocrity.

    The best radio mic system that money can buy is ALMOST as good as a $20 cable.

    One of the most important things to remember about sound is:
    'Sucks' is always conducted better than 'Rules'. - Pimp-X wisdom


    Never underestimate the power of stupid - Blackie C (RIP)

    Ego and talent seldom go hand in hand... Talent and humble on the other hand... - Zoesch

    Weedy ignores this simple bit of glaring obviousness because he is an "ELECTRIC BASS GUITARIST"(coughcough)
    and views the kick drum as a "bass riff rhythmic pattern suggestion generator" - Slipperman
  3. #3
    Join Date May 2013
    Location Ciderland, UK
    Posts 979
    Rep Power 536870992

    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    I used to do audience perspective, because that was how I always heard a drum kit when playing (though that's not actually true - they're pretty much mono in real life).

    Then I started breaking out in cold sweats at the thought of Slipperman breaking into my house with a balaclava and pliers if I didn't do drummer's perspective, so I switched around so that I could sleep at night.
  4. #4
    Join Date Oct 2011
    Location Baltimore, MD
    Posts 800
    Rep Power 184549529

    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    I like mono or audience perspective. I'm not a drummer.
  5. #5
    Little River Band on The Run Internet Meme
    Join Date Nov 2006
    Location State of Denial
    Posts 6,407
    Rep Power 536871252

    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    I like Otek's take on it: "Drummer's perspective since it makes air-drumming easier".
  6. #6
    Garden variety weasel...has ripped flesh. Studied for urine test
    Join Date Jan 2009
    Location Denver, CO, USA
    Posts 529
    Rep Power 536871030

    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    I used to do audience perspective every time, because that's how they did it at the studio where I interned/assisted for years and, like many things I learned there, I thought that was just the correct way to do it. These days I mostly do drummer perspective, for a few different reasons: it usually feels more right/complete to me...something about how one reads left to right... I also remember something iCombs wrote a while ago about how air drumming is way better when it's panned to the drummer's perspective so I figure the only people who actually care are people who favor drummer's perspective. Every once in a while I feel compelled by unknown forces to do audience perspective.
  7. #7
    Join Date Oct 2011
    Location Baltimore, MD
    Posts 800
    Rep Power 184549529

    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    ...so I figure the only people who actually care are people who favor drummer's perspective.
    I actually think the only people who really care are drummers, which might be the same as what you said...

    Maybe it's a superstitious thing, but in multiple mic scenarios I like to pan according to what the mic "sees/hears". Usually for me that's audience perspective, as in - is it looking left, right or center?
  8. #8
    Join Date Apr 2007
    Location nc
    Posts 1,503
    Rep Power 536871083

    Default PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    Drummers prospective or DEATH YOU FUCKING INFIDELS.
    I think that may also be a slipperman quote.
    I may have taken liberties.
    I'm a fan of cheese!
  9. #9
    Join Date Nov 2006
    Location Long Island, NY, USA
    Posts 11,595
    Rep Power 536871425

    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    I go with drummer's perspective because only a musician would notice or care. Doesn't the audeience at a live venue usually get some combination of mono and surround?

    That said, I think this topic has tapped into the least important part of production. The way the drums actually sound is infinitely more important IMO.
    Man! You have GOT to try a hit of this RANGE SUNSHINE!

    IMTBO = In My Thoroughly Biased Opinion
    CMIIW = Correct Me If I'm Wrong
    Never underestimate the amount of contempt a failed musician has for those of us who are still trying.
    If the party's good enough, you can actually suck to a remarkable degree.

    Greedle
  10. #10
    Former burger flipper turned Alshi expert Injured playing co-ed dodgeball
    Join Date Nov 2006
    Location Santa Cruz Mountains, CA
    Posts 1,060
    Rep Power 536871074

    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    I go with drummer's perspective because only a musician would notice or care.
    That there is a really good point.

    The way the drums actually sound is infinitely more important IMO.
    And that there is twice in one post.
    M
    http://deercathedral.net/index.html

    Look for the sunlight where it's shinin'.
  11. #11
    Join Date Jan 2015
    Location Northern Colorado
    Posts 967
    Rep Power 536870972

    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    This...
    To quote Slippy: "Drummer's perspective. There is no other perspective."
    ... and this ...
    Drummers prospective or DEATH YOU FUCKING INFIDELS.
    I think that may also be a slipperman quote.
    I may have taken liberties.
    ...make this a reasonable feeling.
    I used to do audience perspective, because that was how I always heard a drum kit when playing
    ...
    Then I started breaking out in cold sweats at the thought of Slipperman breaking into my house with a balaclava and pliers if I didn't do drummer's perspective, so I switched around so that I could sleep at night.
    Otek's thoughts here are genus. This may actually get me to flip the way I do it.
    I like Otek's take on it: "Drummer's perspective since it makes air-drumming easier".
    And
    That said, I think this topic has tapped into the least important part of production. The way the drums actually sound is infinitely more important IMO.
    Sure... I'd agree. I thought that'd go without saying, but maybe not.

    The spirit of the post was more about who preferred which perspective and why. Did being a drummer make a difference? Based on this sampling, the thought seems to hold water.

    -r
    Sign Here

    X________________________________________________
  12. #12
    Little River Band on The Run Internet Meme
    Join Date Nov 2006
    Location State of Denial
    Posts 6,407
    Rep Power 536871252

    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    I like mixer's perspective since it makes air-mixing easier! Wham!
  13. #13
    Join Date Oct 2011
    Location caprica
    Posts 1,551
    Rep Power 536871029

    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    audience perspective of a left-handed drummer
    TAP TO MASTER
  14. #14
    Join Date Jan 2015
    Location Northern Colorado
    Posts 967
    Rep Power 536870972

    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    audience perspective of a left-handed drummer
    That's funny...and also made me waste at least 5 minutes thinking through different scenarios and strategizing on how I'd approach this. lol.

    Maybe I'll just play it by ear for each song.

    -r
    Sign Here

    X________________________________________________
  15. #15
    Voice like Marcel Marceau Waiting for his millions from Nigeria
    Join Date Nov 2011
    Location Midlands UK
    Posts 255
    Rep Power 536870985

    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    I used to care but the existence of left handed drummers makes any philosophy moot. I don't think it matters at all. If anything it just highlights how artificial and unreal stereo is compared to real sound in 3d space.
  16. #16
    Little River Band on The Run Internet Meme
    Join Date Nov 2006
    Location State of Denial
    Posts 6,407
    Rep Power 536871252

    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    So - it all boils down to air-drumming and taste...
  17. #17
    Join Date Jan 2015
    Location Northern Colorado
    Posts 967
    Rep Power 536870972

    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    The way air drummers taste?

    -r
    Sign Here

    X________________________________________________
  18. #18
    Little River Band on The Run Internet Meme
    Join Date Nov 2006
    Location State of Denial
    Posts 6,407
    Rep Power 536871252

    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    Yes air drummer taste, bud!
  19. #19
    Join Date May 2013
    Location Ciderland, UK
    Posts 979
    Rep Power 536870992

    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    I like the taste of air drums.

    If I'm not having to blend kit piece mics with a stereo overhead image, then I quite like placing toms all over the shop in quite unrealistic positions.

    You'll notice that air drummers do all their tom fills left-to-right, no matter what the perspective of the mix.
  20. #20
    Join Date Nov 2006
    Location Long Island, NY, USA
    Posts 11,595
    Rep Power 536871425

    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    The spirit of the post was more about who preferred which perspective and why. Did being a drummer make a difference? Based on this sampling, the thought seems to hold water.
    guitar, keyboards, voice, a bit of bass guitar and occasionally mandolin but not drums.
    Man! You have GOT to try a hit of this RANGE SUNSHINE!

    IMTBO = In My Thoroughly Biased Opinion
    CMIIW = Correct Me If I'm Wrong
    Never underestimate the amount of contempt a failed musician has for those of us who are still trying.
    If the party's good enough, you can actually suck to a remarkable degree.

    Greedle

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts