Thread: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

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  1. #61
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    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    I think it depends entirely on the arrangement and how everything else needs to be panned!
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  2. #62
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    Default PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    I think it depends entirely on the arrangement and how everything else needs to be panned!
    Being reasonable will get this thread nowhere.

    My name is Bob "I like the be flexible and adapt to the situation at hand" stinky pants Olhsson.
    I'm a fan of cheese!
  3. #63
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    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    Being reasonable will get this thread nowhere.

    My name is Bob "I like the be flexible and adapt to the situation at hand" stinky pants Olhsson.
    Bwahahahaha!
  4. #64
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    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    Being reasonable will get this thread nowhere.

    My name is Bob "I like the be flexible and adapt to the situation at hand" stinky pants Olhsson.
    HAHAHA!!!!

    Again, this thread was more about whether or not having a specific background(i.e. being a drummer or other stage player vs FOH guy, non stage person) influenced how you approached it.
    In the end, I think everyone agrees that ultimately what serves the song is what's right.
    But the different ideas on how and why were very interesting to read. The different opinions on how much it even mattered, verses how much effect it could have if you really smeared it across the spectrum.

    I love getting to hear the different perspectives. It's like getting a push start on my work.

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  5. #65
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    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    Jobs would still be alive if he didn't think he knew more about medicine than his doctors.
    I'd be dead if IU hadn't challenged the first two doctor's opinions when I came down with congestive heart failure and they misdiagnosed me (twice) as having walking pneumonia (but no boogie woogie flu...)
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    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
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  6. #66
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    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    HAHAHA!!!!

    Again, this thread was more about whether or not having a specific background(i.e. being a drummer or other stage player vs FOH guy, non stage person) influenced how you approached it.
    In the end, I think everyone agrees that ultimately what serves the song is what's right.
    But the different ideas on how and why were very interesting to read. The different opinions on how much it even mattered, verses how much effect it could have if you really smeared it across the spectrum.

    I love getting to hear the different perspectives. It's like getting a push start on my work.

    -r
    Actually, given some of the rather wacky panning choices I've heard on some famous records, I think that generally speaking the audience doesn't care as long as it complements the music.,
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  7. #67
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    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    It has to boil down to the sonic arc of the tom levels bending inwards or outwards.
  8. #68
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    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    I'd be dead if IU hadn't challenged the first two doctor's opinions when I came down with congestive heart failure and they misdiagnosed me (twice) as having walking pneumonia (but no boogie woogie flu...)
    In Job's case, it had nothing to do with the diagnosis and everything to do with treatment. Also a single anecdote doesn't impugn the entire medical community and suddenly make a lay person an MD. Granted, there are under-qualified doctors and even outright quacks out there.

    Actually, given some of the rather wacky panning choices I've heard on some famous records, I think that generally speaking the audience doesn't care as long as it complements the music.,
    That's the crux of it. And this thread caused me to try collapsing the drums on one song into mono. I think it's going to stay in mono -- it's punchier.
    Man! You have GOT to try a hit of this RANGE SUNSHINE!

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  9. #69
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    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    In Job's case, it had nothing to do with the diagnosis and everything to do with treatment. Also a single anecdote doesn't impugn the entire medical community and suddenly make a lay person an MD. Granted, there are under-qualified doctors and even outright quacks out there.
    The lesson is that for anything really important it's always a good idea to get another opinion, especially if the first one doesn't seem to be working. Too many doctors these days seem to work "by rote", rather actually paying attention to the patient's needs and symptoms. Doctors are human, too, and just as subject to making mistakes and sometimes subscribing to peculiar opinions as anyone else.
    That doesn't mean you should go to a faith healer or a crystal "therapist", but it's wise to double check your experts against each other.

    That's the crux of it. And this thread caused me to try collapsing the drums on one song into mono. I think it's going to stay in mono -- it's punchier.
    Yes, it quite often is... The older I get, the more I feel that more often than not the simplest way turns out to be the best sounding way. Complication just gets in the way on many things. (Not that everything should be recorded in mono with only one mic - one should practice moderation in all things especially moderation!) Adopting LCR panning was a revelation fore me - especially when I started noticing how much stuff was mixed that way that I'd never noticed (or paid attention to, or thought about) before. Before I'd just assumed that it was simply what people had to make do with before the invention of the pan pot and more or less a holdover from 3 track tape. Then I started thinking seriously about how people actually perceive the instruments in a performance.

    The drums are punchier because they form a cohesive entity to the listener, which is the way people perceive the kit in the context of the band most of the time. If the drummer takes a solo you can expand the kit over the field - that's fun and keeps the record sounding full - but afterwards they go back to a localized spot. The kit is really ONE INSTRUMENT and should treated as such most of the time.

    I read Glyn Johns book a few weeks ago - not a great deal of technical stuff in it but what there is is interesting and to the point.
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  10. #70
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    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    I always thought Ken Scott got it right.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTsF6-R3pWE

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