Thread: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

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  1. #41
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    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    If ya can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen, gramps

    What do you mean, "Hendrix in the late 1960s"? He died in 1970. The Hendrix of the late '60s is the only Hendrix most people know about.

    Anyway, "Manic Depression: Drums mono panned hard right, guitar panned left, bleed between the two. You can hear the snare responding to the guitar. Lead vocal panned hard right

    So help me, it sounds good. Must be the stronger acid
    Now it's "Love Or Confusion with the lead vocal panned hard left.

    They don't make records like that any more

    Audience or drummer's perspective seems like a rather 1st world problem compared to early stereo records. The 1st 10 years seemed pretty experimental.
    Seems like those examples are making my point, sonny. Drums are MONO, like they should be most of the time, drum solo recordings excepted. And the original recordings are pretty much LCR most of the time, except for some special FX.
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  2. #42
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    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    I don't think this would work without generous bleed (great playing and singing helps a lot):

    Drums panned hard right

    Bass guitar and bari sax, hard left

    The vocals were moved around quite a bit, but IMO to good effect. YMMV.

    I also like that it seems like it was originally meant to be faded out, but someone said, "Oh, no, we gotta keep this!"



    Sly had one studio in The Record Plant set up with plumbing for Nitrous installed...
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  3. #43
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    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective



    Sly had one studio in The Record Plant set up with plumbing for Nitrous installed...
    And probably a table made from a full length mirror... What's your point?

    And anyway, "Stand" was recorded at Pacific High Studios in San Francisco (12 tracks!).

    High is its middle name

    You were probably in an opium den a few blocks away at the time, doing the good acid
    Man! You have GOT to try a hit of this RANGE SUNSHINE!

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    Never underestimate the amount of contempt a failed musician has for those of us who are still trying.
    If the party's good enough, you can actually suck to a remarkable degree.

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  4. #44
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    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    Seems like those examples are making my point, sonny. Drums are MONO, like they should be most of the time, drum solo recordings excepted. And the original recordings are pretty much LCR most of the time, except for some special FX.
    So if you went to a gig and the drums were just coming out of one speaker, that would be cool with you?

    I like me some stereo on drums... on a record, not at a gig.
  5. #45
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    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    I don't follow a rule, but on the record I'm currently working on, the drums almost always 'shapen up' when I put the overheads in mono.

    I agree that 'gappy' drums sound weird - there's really something nice about having them sit in a specific spot instead of being all over the dang stereo field. But I don't know if mono is always the answer. It probably has more to do with relative level between the overheads and if you have room mics or not.

    With no room mics, I may print a mono drum mix and distort it a little or put a tubescreamer on it and run it up the center for dirty power. At least with rock drums. I kinda find that I like wide toms when the overheads are mono but not when they're panned hard.
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  6. #46
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    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    I personally find the debate kinda moot. I have a feeling that if anybody is bored enough to care about something like the drums panning then maybe my mix just sucks...

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  7. #47
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    Default PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    I personally find the debate kinda moot. I have a feeling that if anybody is bored enough to care about something like the drums panning then maybe my mix just sucks...

    Envoyé de mon HTC Desire 820 en utilisant Tapatalk
    Yeah I agree!
    C'mon folks, there's not ONLY ONE good way to mix drums.
    Sometimes they work great in stereo, sometimes not.
    It has more to do with taste than anything else imho, infact there are a number of great records made in very different ways.

    That being said, if you ask me, I like drummer's perspective and hard panned toms, but "heavy centered" drums.

    As a mixer, sometimes I change the way I usually pan things if it works better for the production.

    My Mixes on Soundcloud


    With great monitors its easy to hear and fix problems but hard to enhance things that already sound good.

    With hyped monitors, everything sounds good so you don't hear the problems.

    With bad monitors, it seems easy to make absolutely anything sound better because you are really fixing the sound of the monitors rather than the sound of the recording.
  8. #48
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    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    I personally find the debate kinda moot. I have a feeling that if anybody is bored enough to care about something like the drums panning then maybe my mix just sucks...
    Or the song does...

    Regardless, if people who aren't recording engineers or drummers notice, you're probably in deep shit.

    A lot of songs have few, if any, fills and it becomes which side is the hat on, because that may be balanced against another percussive element. The clean sounding guitar or tambourine might offset the hi hat nicely if panned to the other side.

    So the only thing really important is determining which way you're panning the drums (if in stereo) before you start mixing other elements in, right?

    Also, how the drums were miked makes a difference since some drum tracks are recorded more stereo than others.
    Man! You have GOT to try a hit of this RANGE SUNSHINE!

    IMTBO = In My Thoroughly Biased Opinion
    CMIIW = Correct Me If I'm Wrong
    Never underestimate the amount of contempt a failed musician has for those of us who are still trying.
    If the party's good enough, you can actually suck to a remarkable degree.

    Greedle
  9. #49
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    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    Or the song does...

    Damn right Sonny
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  10. #50
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    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    Man! You have GOT to try a hit of this RANGE SUNSHINE!

    IMTBO = In My Thoroughly Biased Opinion
    CMIIW = Correct Me If I'm Wrong
    Never underestimate the amount of contempt a failed musician has for those of us who are still trying.
    If the party's good enough, you can actually suck to a remarkable degree.

    Greedle
  11. #51
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    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    I personally find the debate kinda moot. I have a feeling that if anybody is bored enough to care about something like the drums panning then maybe my mix just sucks...
    I agree that most people would probably not care, but that's irrelevant to me. If panning things the way I want to hear them makes me more comfortable with the mix, then I will mix better, and THAT will probably not go unnoticed. I hope…


    otek
    "Tube color is not the 'thing'. Why would the most linear amplifying device have a color?" - Jonte Knif
  12. #52
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    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    I agree that most people would probably not care, but that's irrelevant to me. If panning things the way I want to hear them makes me more comfortable with the mix, then I will mix better, and THAT will probably not go unnoticed. I hope…


    otek

    That is precisely where I was getting at. The only person that should care about the panning is the mixer because what makes HIM feel good makes for a better mix. I truly believe that if the client starts fussing about the panning of stuff, then something's not feeling right in the mix and that maybe has nothing to do with panning
    Great, quick or cheap. Pick two
    It's vintage only if it works. Otherwise it's just an old piece of junk !
  13. #53
    Middle Handicapper...short game needs work Sqweels like a pig!
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    Default PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    I truly believe that if the client starts fussing about the panning of stuff, then something's not feeling right in the mix and that maybe has nothing to do with panning
    I agree...unfortunately there is one exception to this, at least in my experience.
    There are "nerdy" clients (to explain the character in just one word) who like to impose such decision as panning or a particoular compressor setting for those background vocals so low in the mix I almost forgot about them.
    Most of the times I tend to avoid those kind of clients, because they tend to make me unconfortable with my mix, but clients are clients...sometimes.

    My Mixes on Soundcloud


    With great monitors its easy to hear and fix problems but hard to enhance things that already sound good.

    With hyped monitors, everything sounds good so you don't hear the problems.

    With bad monitors, it seems easy to make absolutely anything sound better because you are really fixing the sound of the monitors rather than the sound of the recording.
  14. #54
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    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    Ah yes those fuckers 😄
    Fortunately they can be easily spotted and avoided before he gig. Like they will ask stupid questions like "will you compress the drums or put a 1.88363kHz notch on the bass?" etc even before they give you the multitrack 😂
    Of course if this client is the difference between a plate of pasta and an empty belly... Sure a client is a client

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  15. #55
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    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    I thought that'd go without saying.

    Hi Bartley and welcome.
    What, exactly, would "go without saying"?
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  16. #56
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    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    Hi Bartley and welcome.
    What, exactly, would "go without saying"?


    And stop calling me Shirley.
  17. #57
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    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    Ah yes those fuckers 
    Fortunately they can be easily spotted and avoided before he gig. Like they will ask stupid questions like "will you compress the drums or put a 1.88363kHz notch on the bass?" etc even before they give you the multitrack 
    Of course if this client is the difference between a plate of pasta and an empty belly... Sure a client is a client
    My mother used to paint portraits and she told me the worst clients were the ones who had taken art classes, which made them think they could make "helpful suggestions".

    After ruining the painting, the client would refuse to accept it.

    Well, at least there's the non-refundable deposit...

    But this sort of thing begs the question:

    If you think you are an expert at something, why are you hiring someone else to do it? If you aren't an expert, why are you advising someone who is?

    If you go to a tire store you can decide which type of tire you want but you don't wander into the shop and start giving the mechanic advice.
    Man! You have GOT to try a hit of this RANGE SUNSHINE!

    IMTBO = In My Thoroughly Biased Opinion
    CMIIW = Correct Me If I'm Wrong
    Never underestimate the amount of contempt a failed musician has for those of us who are still trying.
    If the party's good enough, you can actually suck to a remarkable degree.

    Greedle
  18. #58
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    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    "We don't hire experts to tell them what to do - we hire experts to tell us what to do" - Steve Jobs
  19. #59
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    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    Jobs would still be alive if he didn't think he knew more about medicine than his doctors.
    Man! You have GOT to try a hit of this RANGE SUNSHINE!

    IMTBO = In My Thoroughly Biased Opinion
    CMIIW = Correct Me If I'm Wrong
    Never underestimate the amount of contempt a failed musician has for those of us who are still trying.
    If the party's good enough, you can actually suck to a remarkable degree.

    Greedle
  20. #60
    Little River Band on The Run Internet Meme
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    Default Re: PAN - Drummers or Audience Perspective

    Jobs would still be alive if he didn't think he knew more about medicine than his doctors.
    You're never the prophet in your own head.

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