Thread: Reamping bass through SVT into a Mesa cab?

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  1. #1
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    Default Reamping bass through SVT into a Mesa cab?

    I have a record (of my own!) in which I played everything but the drums. I'm considering renting an Ampeg SVT head so I can replace the UAD emulation I've been using on the bass, but logistically speaking, dealing with the 8x10 cabinet will be difficult and cost me an extra $50. I'm considering using my Mesa 4x10 guitar cabinet instead. Would this be a really stupid idea?
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    Default Re: Reamping bass through SVT into a Mesa cab?

    I don't know a ton about this, but I know you have to be careful, and to me it doesn't sound like a good idea. You definitely run the risk of blowing the speakers.

    If it were a guitar head through a bass cab, I think it would work fine, especially for a one time project. A bass head through a guitar cab sounds like asking for problems, but maybe somebody can clear this up and add some more details.
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    Default Re: Reamping bass through SVT into a Mesa cab?

    Sure, it can be done and you might come away from it happy. But think about this though, each speaker in that Mesa cab will cost $50 or more to replace when/if you shoot it out the front of the grill. So for the low cost of $50 you can be sure you're not replacing 4 speakers in your guitar cab.

    Plus, it sounds like your real goal here is to replace the emulation with an actual bass rig. Don't go halfway and record a bass amp and guitar cab... get a cab intended for the purpose you want.
    That said...I've got a 6x10 SVT cab that weighs more than my refrigerator and it's a bitch to get around. I feel for ya ... but suffer the burden of being a rokstr and get it done... or ask for a 1x15 cab?

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    Default Re: Reamping bass through SVT into a Mesa cab?

    I take it you can't rent a B-15?
    Man! You have GOT to try a hit of this RANGE SUNSHINE!

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  5. #5
    Frustrated Chick Rock singer...now doing jazz standards poorly! Never made a record...music forum mod!
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    Default Re: Reamping bass through SVT into a Mesa cab?

    The guy with whom I've been talking has several heads, but only the SVT810AV cabinet.

    Mainly I don't think I can get it into my car.
  6. #6
    Frustrated Chick Rock singer...now doing jazz standards poorly! Never made a record...music forum mod!
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    Default Re: Reamping bass through SVT into a Mesa cab?

    I could ask a neighbor if I could borrow her truck. It's not insane to spend $100 to avoid using a plugin amp sim on a bass is it?

    I know I wouldn't use a plug in to get my guitar tone.
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    Default Re: Reamping bass through SVT into a Mesa cab?

    Won't sound right. Might sound like something neat, but won't sound like you want it to.
    I'm a fan of cheese!
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    Default Re: Reamping bass through SVT into a Mesa cab?

    I'm not particularly fond of using 10s to record bass. It takes a few feet for the fundamental to really coalesce with such small speakers, as the wave fronts don't really couple up close.
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

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    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
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    Default Re: Reamping bass through SVT into a Mesa cab?

    Tecnically, it would depend on the speakers - I know Mesa used rebranded Electro-Voice (Black Shadow) for a time, but not sure if they ever used 10"s. Those speakers would very likely be able to deal with an SVT.

    It would also obviously have to do with the volume you run them at. I've reamped bass through small guitar amplifiers before, but admittedly, not usually through an over-dimensioned amplifier.

    In general, however, I would stay away from that solution because like John and others, I don't much care for 10" speakers when recording bass. Something like a Mesa 2x15" cab would be a whole lot nicer.

    It also deserves mentioning that Weedy's tour rig consists (or at least used to) of a Vox Foundation cabinet driven by a 100W Hiwatt head - the Vox cabinet was designed to be driven by an amplifier half that size.


    otek
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    Default Re: Reamping bass through SVT into a Mesa cab?

    It also deserves mentioning that Weedy's tour rig consists (or at least used to) of a Vox Foundation cabinet driven by a 100W Hiwatt head - the Vox cabinet was designed to be driven by an amplifier half that size.


    otek
    It should be noted that the Foundation bass cab uses an 18" speaker. Stock drivers were either Goodmans, Celestion, or Fane.

    Peavey also makes a good 18" bass cab (somewhat larger than the Vox) that employs their Black Widow driver which is quite a good speaker with a 4" voice coil, cast aluminum frame and field-replaceable basket.

    For some reason I've never understood, 18" bass cabs aren't common these days - I've always loved good 18s. (Note that not all 18s are not good ones - Cerwin Vega 18s are pretty horrible.) I have an Ampeg B-18N (big brother of the B-015) which currently has a JBL K-151 in it. I also have a spare (8 ohm) K151 if anyone needws one, as well as a 4 ohm Gauss 18.
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
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    Default Re: Reamping bass through SVT into a Mesa cab?

    I have actually been considering doing kind of the opposite - I've been thinking of picking up a bass cab to use for recording bass with a dual rectifier head. I've recorded bass through guitar amps before, which usually works fine for a lot of the acoustic music I do, but does anyone have any general opinions on this approach?
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    Default Re: Reamping bass through SVT into a Mesa cab?

    Peavey also makes a good 18" bass cab (somewhat larger than the Vox) that employs their Black Widow driver which is quite a good speaker with a 4" voice coil, cast aluminum frame and field-replaceable basket.
    I like Peavey cabs - they're damn near indestructible, and generally hard to beat in the bang-for-the-buck department.

    For some reason I've never understood, 18" bass cabs aren't common these days.
    That was about the first thing I thought when I read the first sentence of this post! It's a shame, there were some very good constructions out there. I also remember an American (?) company called Hartley that made some amazing big-diameter bass woofers.


    otek
    "Tube color is not the 'thing'. Why would the most linear amplifying device have a color?" - Jonte Knif
  13. #13
    Frustrated Chick Rock singer...now doing jazz standards poorly! Never made a record...music forum mod!
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    Default Re: Reamping bass through SVT into a Mesa cab?

    I have actually been considering doing kind of the opposite - I've been thinking of picking up a bass cab to use for recording bass with a dual rectifier head. I've recorded bass through guitar amps before, which usually works fine for a lot of the acoustic music I do, but does anyone have any general opinions on this approach?
    I'd say it depends on how clean you want it to sound; I'd predict the dual rec might break up a little more than you'd want.
  14. #14
    Frustrated Chick Rock singer...now doing jazz standards poorly! Never made a record...music forum mod!
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    Default Re: Reamping bass through SVT into a Mesa cab?

    Tecnically, it would depend on the speakers - I know Mesa used rebranded Electro-Voice (Black Shadow) for a time, but not sure if they ever used 10"s. Those speakers would very likely be able to deal with an SVT.

    It would also obviously have to do with the volume you run them at. I've reamped bass through small guitar amplifiers before, but admittedly, not usually through an over-dimensioned amplifier.

    In general, however, I would stay away from that solution because like John and others, I don't much care for 10" speakers when recording bass. Something like a Mesa 2x15" cab would be a whole lot nicer.

    It also deserves mentioning that Weedy's tour rig consists (or at least used to) of a Vox Foundation cabinet driven by a 100W Hiwatt head - the Vox cabinet was designed to be driven by an amplifier half that size.


    otek
    I really appreciate all the advice - especially from you and John.

    I was in a pretty big hurry because I wanted to get the record really close to being mixed and done before my next wave of client work hit, and I was actually going to rent the Ampeg the day after I started this thread. Then John's opinion plus (long story short) another song deciding to demand a place on the record caused me to reconsider rushing through the process, and the next wave of client work has just hit, so I will in the meantime see if I can figure out a way to use a cabinet with a 15" speaker when the time comes.
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    Default Re: Reamping bass through SVT into a Mesa cab?

    and the next wave of client work has just hit, so I will in the meantime see if I can figure out a way to use a cabinet with a 15" speaker when the time comes.
    Lure your clients into using it)
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    Default Re: Reamping bass through SVT into a Mesa cab?

    I will in the meantime see if I can figure out a way to use a cabinet with a 15" speaker when the time comes.
    The thing is not to use just any 15" speaker that claims to be good for bass - as with 18s, many of the common ones suck and do that ineptly.

    Eschew the common OEM speakers. You need a high sensitivity, high efficiency driver with extended frequency response that still can take the bass guitar signal with aplomb. Jbl 140 series (I prefer the D and K with the alnico magnet, the E series with the ceramic doesn't sound as good and is slightly less efficient, notwithstanding the higher power rating), the JBL 2220 (pro series), The Peavey Black Widow, the Electro-Voice EVM15B, are all good prospects. I do NOT like the Altec 421 or 418, they blow too easily although they do sound good.

    Many OEM 15" "bass guitar speakers" are lacking in efficiency and higher end (relatively speaking) and will not articulate well.

    I have a very strong bias towards the JBLs, but none of the ones I favor are currently in production, so you'll have to go Ebay or similar sources. It's not uncommon to find old Sunn cabs loaded with D series JBLs, tuck and roll Kustoms as well. Those are also quite comfortable to sit on...
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  17. #17
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    Default Re: Reamping bass through SVT into a Mesa cab?

    I'd say it depends on how clean you want it to sound; I'd predict the dual rec might break up a little more than you'd want.
    I tried bass guitar through a clean sounding guitar amp, (Fender Dual Showman head) and a 4x10 cab. Theoretically that should more-or-less work, but I found it lacking. Might have been the 10" speakers, I dunno.
    Man! You have GOT to try a hit of this RANGE SUNSHINE!

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    CMIIW = Correct Me If I'm Wrong
    Never underestimate the amount of contempt a failed musician has for those of us who are still trying.
    If the party's good enough, you can actually suck to a remarkable degree.

    Greedle
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    Default Re: Reamping bass through SVT into a Mesa cab?

    I tried bass guitar through a clean sounding guitar amp, (Fender Dual Showman head) and a 4x10 cab. Theoretically that should more-or-less work, but I found it lacking. Might have been the 10" speakers, I dunno.
    Or very likely the cab design, at least a factor.
    I'm a fan of cheese!
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    Default Re: Reamping bass through SVT into a Mesa cab?

    I'd say it depends on how clean you want it to sound; I'd predict the dual rec might break up a little more than you'd want.
    Yeah, that's true. Maybe I'll try splitting the signal and also use a DI for a cleaner sound with more low end to blend together.

    Sorry for getting off topic, I hope your situation works out, good luck!
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    Default Re: Reamping bass through SVT into a Mesa cab?

    I tried bass guitar through a clean sounding guitar amp, (Fender Dual Showman head) and a 4x10 cab. Theoretically that should more-or-less work, but I found it lacking. Might have been the 10" speakers, I dunno.
    The dual Showman head was a standard for bass in the '60s - the Bassman wasn't powerful enough. It was always used with 2 x15" JBLs though, nobody would even have considered using 10s. Was your cab fully enclosed or open back? Open back cabs have a problem with low end cancellation and shouldn't be used for bass - that was a problem with the original tweed Bassman amps and was why people never used them as bass amps after closed/bass reflex designs came out from companies like Ampeg and Standel.
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????

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