Thread: so, who's using subs?

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  1. #1
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    Default so, who's using subs?

    just curious. Used systems in the past with subs, ones without, but the one I own doesn't. Have bm5-a mk2 and seems to translate decently even with a 5" woofer. Been toying with the idea of a sub, but not sure just how necessary it is for rock-centric stuff.

    Just wondering how many of you guys prefer subs when monitoring/mixing and why. thanks guys!
  2. #2
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    Default Re: so, who's using subs?

    I prefer subs. Had the Genelec 1029A and 7050B. Loved it.
  3. #3
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    Default Re: so, who's using subs?

    do you find your stuff translates differently if you mix the same song with/without? or only in the sub frequencies?
  4. #4
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    Default Re: so, who's using subs?

    do you find your stuff translates differently if you mix the same song with/without? or only in the sub frequencies?
    Never really thought about if more than the subs differ. And since the studio is long gone - there is no way for me to find out.
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    Default Re: so, who's using subs?

    I don't have one, but a poorly set up sub is 1000X worse then no sub at all. Mine are 8's though, so they're not crazy off the mark.
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    Default Re: so, who's using subs?

    The US Navy has a number of subs, some atomic powered.
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  7. #7
    Plays in Winger cover band Enjoys scratching self too much
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    Default Re: so, who's using subs?

    Never really thought about if more than the subs differ. And since the studio is long gone - there is no way for me to find out.
    what happened to your studio? and agreed. I think i could go either way at this point.

    I don't have one, but a poorly set up sub is 1000X worse then no sub at all. Mine are 8's though, so they're not crazy off the mark.
    yeah, i guess a sub isn't really necessary if you've got 8" drivers. Its not like I'm using ns-10's, so i still have somewhat decent low end info, just not quite to the extent that 8" would give. I also agree that you could potentially screw things up using one. seems like you wouldn't work at it as much if you were monitoring through it the whole time. But then again, maybe thats one of the upsides...im on the fence.

    The US Navy has a number of subs, some atomic powered.
    hmm, atomic subs. I see you've been catching up on your war documentaries. so what are the "others" powered by then? coal? solar? sea horses? please keep me posted.

    so, in keeping with the topic, I'm guessing you don't use one then?
  8. #8
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    Default Re: so, who's using subs?

    I couldn't stay in the house where it was situated. Long story but sold everything but a travel rig and moved to Latin America.

    The sea horse powered subs are kinda good but I prefer BLT.
  9. #9
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    Default Re: so, who's using subs?


    hmm, atomic subs. I see you've been catching up on your war documentaries. so what are the "others" powered by then? coal? solar? sea horses? please keep me posted.
    Diesel, I believe. Not sure how many are still in use though.....

    I understand that the Colombians have quite a number of small, diesel powered subs currently in use...

    so, in keeping with the topic, I'm guessing you don't use one then?
    I have one, a large Klipsch with (I believe an EV) 15 in it that's currently in use as a table under an outboard rack - I'm trying to get it out so I can sell it to a carpenter friend for his home stereo, but lack a properly sizerd cabinet to replace it with. It's a great sub but subs generally lie to you as mix tools in my experience.

    I have another, smaller (10"? 8"?) medium high-end hi-fi sub that was part of a street find, along with some matching satellite speakers that were discarded by some techie with more money than brains (he ditched about $4k-$5k of speakers and an amp that sells for around 3 grand. Amp was claimed by said carpenter friend...) that I'd like to set up if I had the room, but not for mixing. People in "upwardly mobile" SF throw away the damnedest things sometimes.

    No, I don't use a sub in the studio. For one thing, as I said, they tend to lie to you, for another thing (as I believe was discussed in a thread here a few years ago) you need two of them to really make it work right (assuming that the subs were properly designed to go with the main speakers in the first place) and the subs need to be correctly placed with the main speakers, otherwise odd things can happen. A single sub is fine for an end-user entertainment system, but not for monitoring.
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  10. #10
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    Default Re: so, who's using subs?

    What's your favorite toppings for the sub?
    When in doubt, mumble!

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  11. #11
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    Default Re: so, who's using subs?

    Diesel, I believe. Not sure how many are still in use though...
    Sweden has two diesel-powered subs. One of them, HMS Gotland (with two crew complements), was lent to the US. Navy a few years ago to conduct "cat-and-mouse" games in US Waters. HMS Gotland was later recruited by both Canadian and Australian naval forces for the same purpose, after the US had extended their initial "loan" of boat and crew - apparently due to some very real problems even acquiring the target under realistic conditions.

    Old-school technology, but as is often the case, not to be underestimated...

    As for the actual "sub" question, I don't use them. The closest I've gotten to something usable was a large Genelec system in a well-designed control room, but in truth, it's not for me.


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  12. #12
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    Default Re: so, who's using subs?

    I have MM27s which have subwoofers built in. I find them quite helpful. First (and some would no doubt argue foremost), clients love them. Personally I believe they allow me to let about as much low end live in the mix without going overboard, because I can actually hear it.

    On the other hand, I used to use a Adam S3a's, and I found trying to use a subwoofer with them did not help at all. I think placing and calibrating them (setting phase and crossover) optimally are crucial, not to mention the characteristics of your room as well as treatment (or lack thereof). Perhaps it could have been done right, but I never figured it out.
  13. #13
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    Default Re: so, who's using subs?

    Bob Olhsson said something about the importance of setting up a pair of subs. Indeed, I think that although diectional clues are becoming less and less detectable the lower the frequency goes, the idea that they are not important at all is greatly exaggerated.
    When in doubt, mumble!

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    Default Re: so, who's using subs?

    In case I didn't make it clear, my objections to subwoofers only apply to the "add-on" type, not to systems that have a low frequency driver incorporated in the basic design. For example, the Trident monitors have a low frequency section incorporated in the system and I like those quite a lot. Many, if not most mastering monitors also have low frequency sections that might be considered "subwoofers" by some - I don't, I just regard them as an integral part of the system.

    OTOH, there's THIS THING, which could be useful if you mix a lot of cinema FX audio...
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  15. #15
    Frustrated Chick Rock singer...now doing jazz standards poorly! Never made a record...music forum mod!
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    Default Re: so, who's using subs?

    That would be great for any elephants in the audience.
  16. #16
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    Default Re: so, who's using subs?

    That would be great for any elephants in the audience.
    Actually, you've never experienced it. It's fucking AMAZING, but of no real use for music.
    The demo I attended at AES around 5 years ago was jaw dropping, but of little musical usefulness - however for r cinema it was obviously a whole quantum leap ahead.

    The helicopter scene ( really Oberheim synths) in Apocalypse Now was jaw dropping. When they played back a seismograph recording of the Loma Prieta earthquake people started heading for the door.

    For music it might be useful to tell you when you need to highpass steeply at 25-30Hz.
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  17. #17
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    Default Re: so, who's using subs?

    The helicopter scene ( really Oberheim synths) in Apocalypse Now was jaw dropping.
    Interesting. Was the audiotrack original or was it enhanced? I think it raises a point about the need of extra frequency extension on monitoring equipment. No doubt they had some amazing speakers when they did sound FX for the movie, but I don't think it compared to this new rotary technology.
    Likewise, it is entirely possible to create music with extended sub response on speakers which rolloff on the low end if one knows what he's doing.
    When in doubt, mumble!

    EVERYTHING SOUNDS LIKE SHIT IF YA LISTEN LONG AND HARD ENOUGH.
  18. #18
    Frustrated Chick Rock singer...now doing jazz standards poorly! Never made a record...music forum mod!
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    Default Re: so, who's using subs?

    Actually, you've never experienced it. It's fucking AMAZING, but of no real use for music.
    The demo I attended at AES around 5 years ago was jaw dropping, but of little musical usefulness - however for r cinema it was obviously a whole quantum leap ahead.

    The helicopter scene ( really Oberheim synths) in Apocalypse Now was jaw dropping. When they played back a seismograph recording of the Loma Prieta earthquake people started heading for the door.

    For music it might be useful to tell you when you need to highpass steeply at 25-30Hz.
    I stand corrected. There was some research done just last year that indicates we can hear a full octave below what conventional wisdom has taught: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0710123506.htm
  19. #19
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    Default Re: so, who's using subs?

    Interesting. Was the audiotrack original or was it enhanced? I think it raises a point about the need of extra frequency extension on monitoring equipment. No doubt they had some amazing speakers when they did sound FX for the movie, but I don't think it compared to this new rotary technology.
    Likewise, it is entirely possible to create music with extended sub response on speakers which rolloff on the low end if one knows what he's doing.

    As far as I know the tracks they used were all original.

    The rotary is a true sub woofer, which most "subs" are not; its HF cutoff is around 30 Hz and it goes down to 0Hz.
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  20. #20
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    Default Re: so, who's using subs?

    This thread is making me hungry. I'm thinking that a good meatball sub would go really nicely about now.... Extra parm........
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????

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