1. #1
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    Default Quick question about mixing room/control room shapes

    Can someone describe to me(like I'm a child) what the reasoning/physics is behind the way the front of a control room is shaped. Specifically, having a high(er) ceiling up front, that angles down to a more normal ceiling towards the back.
    It seems like the common/right thing ... I just don't understand what function that design serves.

    Thanks!!

    -r
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Quick question about mixing room/control room shapes

    While there definitely are some acoustical considerations, I personally think it is because most of the times control room front is adjacent to a recording space which MUST have high ceiling.
    When in doubt, mumble!

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Quick question about mixing room/control room shapes

    Actually, ceilings that slope down from front to back - compression ceilings - are not the most desirable.

    The word 'distortion' gets thrown around a lot when discussing compression ceilings, but I'm not cluey enough to know about the science behind that.

    The control rooms that I've always felt most comfortable in have either flat ceilings, or "expansion ceilings" where the ceiling rises from front to back.

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    Default Re: Quick question about mixing room/control room shapes

    Mine is higher on the left then on the right, it was just a practical consideration. It would have been more difficult to have it raise front to back/back to front. I just knew I didn't want parallel ceilings, and that was the simplest design.
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    Default Re: Quick question about mixing room/control room shapes

    I guess the like a baby explanation is "it's an easy way to get rid of flutter echo." The particulars of why it should go in which direction are beyond me.
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    Default Re: Quick question about mixing room/control room shapes

    So maybe it's more about not being parallel to the floor than the direction in which it runs?

    -r
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    Default Re: Quick question about mixing room/control room shapes

    So maybe it's more about not being parallel to the floor than the direction in which it runs?

    -r
    That was true in my case, but probably their is more going on that I don't know about.
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    Default Re: Quick question about mixing room/control room shapes

    Actually most of my most favourite rooms were compression ceiling rooms.
    Fwiw

    my least fave are always LEDE
  9. #9
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    Default Re: Quick question about mixing room/control room shapes

    The problem with parallel walls is they have a tendency to promote nodes, standing waves.

    It's pretty easy to get rid of room flutter with a bit of absorbtive and refractive material. If you're building a room scratch you can build it without parallel walls. Many of us don't have that option.

    To me, my room sounds pretty good if I'm in the middle of the room, regardless if I'm sitting by the monitors or the middle or back of the room.

    But ther is a corner I call "jukebox corner" -- If I stand there it sounds like there's an extra 2 dB of low shelf added. I use it to my advantage; since I don't have subs, it will reveal the low end detail in a useful way. I just tailor the sound so that it sounds similar to the way professionally mixed and mastered program material sounds when I'm standing there. Bass ackwards, perhaps, but that's how we do things at nobby road

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    Default Re: Quick question about mixing room/control room shapes

    What's LEDE?
    I'm a fan of cheese!
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    Default Re: Quick question about mixing room/control room shapes


    Live End Dead End
    One wall of the room is very reflective, the other is dead
    When in doubt, mumble!

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  12. #12
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    Default Re: Quick question about mixing room/control room shapes

    Live End Dead End
    One wall of the room is very reflective, the other is dead
    I was taught LEDE and DELE which were to mean: LEDE=live end in front and dead end at the back and DELE=reversed.

    Maybe I had too much Moroccan dope.

    The studio I got my formal training in was a LEDE (Studio Bohus) and, could it have been Westlake that designed it? (Can't find any info). What I know is that the studio was built by a swedish dance band that sold outrageous amounts of records and invited the soup de jour studio designer of the year (1976?) to build a top notch studio with almost unlimited budget.

    I found it - it was Tom Hidley of Eastlake that built it. It's a frigging beautiful studio and here's the link: The link!
  13. #13
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    Default Re: Quick question about mixing room/control room shapes

    Thanks guys. Reading around online some too. I'd found John Sayers sight some time back, but I was wondering if you guys were familiar or what you thought about the quality of information that comes out of there.

    In in my space I committed to a mostly absorptive ceiling this weekend. It's 12 inch joist spaced 16 inches apart. I put a 9 inch thick fiberglass insulation up in the joist and am covering it with fabric. In a fashionable way of course. Haha. The hope is it mostly sucks up everything that hits it. We'll see how it does.

    -r
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    Default Re: Quick question about mixing room/control room shapes

    Thanks guys. Reading around online some too. I'd found John Sayers sight some time back, but I was wondering if you guys were familiar or what you thought about the quality of information that comes out of there.

    In in my space I committed to a mostly absorptive ceiling this weekend. It's 12 inch joist spaced 16 inches apart. I put a 9 inch thick fiberglass insulation up in the joist and am covering it with fabric. In a fashionable way of course. Haha. The hope is it mostly sucks up everything that hits it. We'll see how it does.

    -r
    Like anywhere on the web, you have to parse the data and know your sources. John is reliable, and a respected designer, as are most of the mods there. Even the acoustics forum at the Purple Place has some excellent contributors, but you have to ignore the fibre merchants and the "tell me everything I have to do in an uncomplicated manner, because I don't actually want to learn anything, for free" crowd...

    As for your ceiling, 228mm of insulation isn't much. If you know the gas flow resistivity of the material, you can get an idea of your absorption coefficient here: http://www.acousticmodelling.com/multi.php

    You'll have to start thinking in Metric, but that's a good thing.

    If you're using fluffy insulation, it will likely look something like this: http://www.acousticmodelling.com/mlink.php?m=4&im=1&s11=2&d11=228&v11=5000

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  15. #15
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    Default Re: Quick question about mixing room/control room shapes

    I just got explained this to me barely a couple of weeks ago over at the John Sayers forum. Really nice people there. I've been trying to get the old studio off the ground again.

    Anyway the current trend goes for small ceiling up front, high ceiling behind you, and from narrow up front to wide behind you. Apparently this is to create what they call a RFZ around the mix position: Reflection Free Zone; your ears get bathed by your pure monitor sound, with any/all reflections (if at all) hitting your ears sufficiently late enough or quiet enough to not be able to confuse your decision-making ears.

    You literally encounter that same concept floating around across many of threads over and over again.

    Reminds me of things like "use your ears not your eyes", "get solid results from your DAWs plugins" or "track at low levels into your DACs" that one will eventually pick up from reading enough threads around this forum.


    best regards,
    -m
    Can someone describe to me(like I'm a child) what the reasoning/physics is behind the way the front of a control room is shaped. Specifically, having a high(er) ceiling up front, that angles down to a more normal ceiling towards the back.
    It seems like the common/right thing ... I just don't understand what function that design serves.

    Thanks!!

    -r
  16. #16
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    Default Re: Quick question about mixing room/control room shapes

    I was taught LEDE ...
    I found it - it was Tom Hidley of Eastlake that built it. It's a frigging beautiful studio and here's the link: The link!

    HIDLEY is a genius, but he was not a fan or proponent of LEDE.
    his rooms tend to be ultra symmetrical (a very good thing), with a fair amount of diffusion near the front, and lots of trapping at the rear, plus 'perimeter' trapping all round.
    he might have 'invented' (along with George Augspurger) the compression ceiling (his original designs had a V shape that was lowest over the mixer position and then rose again at the back) as well as bass trapping in control rooms that they did by hanging free swinging (on wires) batons of fiberglass on fiberboard in wall cavities with cloth 'entrances'.

    most of his rooms are incredibly good, and overbuilt to an incredible degree... so also, naturally, not cheap.

    the original Record Plant rooms were his very first.
    Last edited by weedywet; January 17th, 2017 at 06:46 PM.
  17. #17
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    Default Re: Quick question about mixing room/control room shapes

    Apparently this is to create what they call a RFZ around the mix position: Reflection Free Zone; your ears get bathed by your pure monitor sound, with any/all reflections (if at all) hitting your ears sufficiently late enough or quiet enough to not be able to confuse your decision-making ears.
    Dunno. Why not just make anechoic room then?
    I think the idea of having bigger space behind you is nice so that low frequency nulls and peaks would be there.

    "track at low levels into your DACs"
    I don't think tracking into DACs is a good idea
    When in doubt, mumble!

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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Quick question about mixing room/control room shapes

    LEDE is a trainwreck because it absorbs more highs and midrange than lows!

    What's important is that the reflections off the wall have a flat response and are well diffused to avoid flutter echo. Later Hidley rooms are this way although earlier ones were not great. You also need to worry about bass trapping if the room is really isolated and sound proof. Not so much if the lows can leak to the outside world.
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  19. #19
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    Default Re: Quick question about mixing room/control room shapes

    This probably applies to me also. Ive got the ceiling drywall out and the previous owner has roxul in there. Things are sounding good, but I wonder if once I finish the room if I'll be shooting myself in the foot by boarding up the ceiling.

    Seems like alot of lf info is getting a chance to breathe there. Would it be better to just do a slotted ceiling w/ various 6" boards? With 8' ceilings, I don't have many options for bas trapping in an isolated room.
  20. #20
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    Default Re: Quick question about mixing room/control room shapes

    meLo, great to read you again!
    hey don't shoot the messenger

    the way I would defend it would be something like this: we're talking about the Control Room here, not the Live Room, so y'know being too dead or too live ... isn't it a matter of taste as long as the freq response is flat if one mixes long enough in there one adapts, no? Like with the marketing-speak of Nearfields, the objective is "pure sound". NOT saying this is the best, the way it should be, my fav or anything, just trying to convey as truthfully as possible what was conveyed to me.

    best regards,
    -m
    Dunno. Why not just make anechoic room then?
    I think the idea of having bigger space behind you is nice so that low frequency nulls and peaks would be there.


    I don't think tracking into DACs is a good idea

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