Thread: Avid or Adobe?

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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Avid or Adobe?

    I'm seeing GTX 1080’s in the $600 range and GTX 980's around $350 to $400. I'm leaning towards just spending the extra money and convincing myself it's piece of mind to have the "nice one". I read in the documentation that the 1080 goes to 11!


    Toonman,
    The they in this scenario is me. Me and a couple of highly qualified(a.k.a. reliable but not actually qualified) friends. I'm literally putting it all together for at least 3 episodes/shows. Filming and all that comes with it, recording, all the editing for both audio and video… all of it. So when I said I had no business pitching the idea, it was an accurate statement.
    I actually think I can pull it off, but it’s going to be a fairly rudimentary effort.
    I’m picking up 3 or 4 Canon 70d’s … which I think can shoot in RAW, but the more I’m reading and planning, I just don’t see that it would be worth the effort. Like I said, this will be pretty rudimentary. But I’m never opposed to future proofing/planning if I can. Since the 1080 is only a couple hundred bucks more it seems like a prudent choice. Though, $200 in lighting would probably be a good choice too.

    -r
    Here's some tips for cheap lighting:

    https://youtu.be/KabgSLyeVfQ
  2. #22
    Join Date Jan 2015
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    Default Re: Avid or Adobe?

    Black Magic just acquired Fairlight.

    I think they are going after Avid since I've been hearing mixed reviews of Adobe but they first need to have people learning Resolve.
    I guess offering a fairly well featured (from what I can tell) free version is a good way to make that happen.

    -r
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  3. #23
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    Default Re: Avid or Adobe?

    Thanks for the cheap light tip ... but more for introducing me to the Stupid Musicians Text videos. Got a good chuckle out of those.

    -r
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  4. #24
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    Default Re: Avid or Adobe?

    Thanks for the cheap light tip ... but more for introducing me to the Stupid Musicians Text videos. Got a good chuckle out of those.

    -r
    Ha! Yeah. I find that guy a bit much to sit through most of the time, but the stupid musician texts are gold
  5. #25
    Plays in Winger cover band Enjoys scratching self too much
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    Default Re: Avid or Adobe?

    Still using Sony although after taking a few VFX courses using it, I do so much of the work in Hitfilm Pro and all it's plugins work in Sony sort of supersizing Sony

    BTW Hitfilm has a free Express version that works well for most and inexpensive packs if you need more.
    HitFilm is pretty good too. Being a nodes kinda guy, I still lean more towards Fusion, but I've also been able to load the HitFilm plugins in Resolve (since it started supporting OFX plugins).
  6. #26
    Plays in Winger cover band Enjoys scratching self too much
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    Default Re: Avid or Adobe?

    I'm seeing GTX 1080’s in the $600 range and GTX 980's around $350 to $400. I'm leaning towards just spending the extra money and convincing myself it's piece of mind to have the "nice one". I read in the documentation that the 1080 goes to 11!


    Toonman,
    The they in this scenario is me. Me and a couple of highly qualified(a.k.a. reliable but not actually qualified) friends. I'm literally putting it all together for at least 3 episodes/shows. Filming and all that comes with it, recording, all the editing for both audio and video… all of it. So when I said I had no business pitching the idea, it was an accurate statement.
    I actually think I can pull it off, but it’s going to be a fairly rudimentary effort.
    I’m picking up 3 or 4 Canon 70d’s … which I think can shoot in RAW, but the more I’m reading and planning, I just don’t see that it would be worth the effort. Like I said, this will be pretty rudimentary. But I’m never opposed to future proofing/planning if I can. Since the 1080 is only a couple hundred bucks more it seems like a prudent choice. Though, $200 in lighting would probably be a good choice too.

    -r
    A GTX1080 will definitely be good for quite a while. They're getting some awesome performance reviews. If not, the 980 should definitely also be a good choice.
    As for the 7D's, you're definitely then going to be dealing with H.264-encoded MOV video files (same as my 5D MKII). I definitely suggest re-encoding them onto ProRes if you have the time.
    The only way you can get these cameras to generate RAW footage is by replacing the stock firmware with Magic Lantern. I haven't done it, although it's in my list of to-do's.
    Word of caution... RAW files are MASSIVE in comparison to H.264 video. Which means that you not only need MUCH bigger memory cards to shoot RAW, but they must support super-fast transfer speeds! Otherwise, you'll probably get dropped frames (or other problems). These cards tend to be a bit on the expensive side, so you might wanna factor that in into your budget if you really want to shoot RAW.
  7. #27
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    Default Re: Avid or Adobe?

    I'm looking at the 70D not the 7. It's much more price friendly and everyone seems to rave about it's auto focus (for the price point).

    I think what you are saying about shooting RAW on the 70 vs the 7 is true either way though. Magic Lantern seems to be a must have. I don't know that I'll know what to do with all that addition control over the camera, but I'll likely do it just because.

    As for storage, I just learned about the different classes of SD cards today. I mean I know there are read/write speeds for storage devices ... but man, for a "tech guy" I don't feel very technical anymore. Not at that level. Ask me what the US Gov strategy for Cloud Services is or Identity Proofing citizens who use government financial systems and I'm your guy!! I'm happy to give everyone an overview of the identity federation approaches used between NASA and USDA and DOJ or whoever. Anyone want to talk Homeland Security Presidential Directive 12?

    I'm trying to stay with simple first. So the native video format for now. No doubt I'll want to explore at a later time, but striking while the iron is hot is definitely in play on this project. I'll only get to hit the highlights so my end product will land somewhere between a WorldStar street fight on YouTube and the Matrix in terms of quality/fancifulness. I've prepared myself to swallow my pride on that front.
    But my goal is to get the idea picked up by someone who can fund it a little better. Then I'll make the decision as to whether I outsource, keep learning and doing it myself, or some combination of the two.

    This past couple weeks has been an incredible crash course in everything film making. I'm just scratching the surface of something that seems very kin to record making. There are some very interesting similarities in their creative and concrete/technical components. A couple weeks and a credit card can get you smack in the middle of it. But it takes years of learning to actually know what you're doing. And even then you may still suck!

    I can't help but think my guidance counselor swung and missed when she helped me decide what I wanted to be when I grew up.

    -r
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  8. #28
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    Default Re: Avid or Adobe?

    Reno - on one of my computers I'm using a Quadro K620 but what I consider my main graphics computer I'm using the 980 and for the most part renders non cad projects faster than the k620
    Rednecks call me a Tree Hugger and Tree Huggers call me a Redneck...I must be doing something right to piss everyone off.
  9. #29
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    Default Re: Avid or Adobe?

    Reno - on one of my computers I'm using a Quadro K620 but what I consider my main graphics computer I'm using the 980 and for the most part renders non cad projects faster than the k620
    Thanks Sue. The 980Ti seems like the sweet spot. I think the 1080 is probably overkill.

    -r
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  10. #30
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    Default Re: Avid or Adobe?

    Thanks Sue. The 980Ti seems like the sweet spot. I think the 1080 is probably overkill.

    -r
    My understanding is the 10 series is more a 4k thing and to me that's a 3d TV thing ... more a bragging point than actual improvement. Technically it will be a big improvement but I doub't most people have the vision to really appreciate it. On the other hand I am a visual snob having once had 20/10 and passed the military flight eye exam (few can actually pass it even with 20/10). Still am 20/25 at age 70
    Rednecks call me a Tree Hugger and Tree Huggers call me a Redneck...I must be doing something right to piss everyone off.
  11. #31
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    Default Re: Avid or Adobe?

    I'm looking at the 70D not the 7. It's much more price friendly and everyone seems to rave about it's auto focus (for the price point).

    I think what you are saying about shooting RAW on the 70 vs the 7 is true either way though. Magic Lantern seems to be a must have. I don't know that I'll know what to do with all that addition control over the camera, but I'll likely do it just because.

    As for storage, I just learned about the different classes of SD cards today. I mean I know there are read/write speeds for storage devices ... but man, for a "tech guy" I don't feel very technical anymore. Not at that level. Ask me what the US Gov strategy for Cloud Services is or Identity Proofing citizens who use government financial systems and I'm your guy!! I'm happy to give everyone an overview of the identity federation approaches used between NASA and USDA and DOJ or whoever. Anyone want to talk Homeland Security Presidential Directive 12?

    I'm trying to stay with simple first. So the native video format for now. No doubt I'll want to explore at a later time, but striking while the iron is hot is definitely in play on this project. I'll only get to hit the highlights so my end product will land somewhere between a WorldStar street fight on YouTube and the Matrix in terms of quality/fancifulness. I've prepared myself to swallow my pride on that front.
    But my goal is to get the idea picked up by someone who can fund it a little better. Then I'll make the decision as to whether I outsource, keep learning and doing it myself, or some combination of the two.

    This past couple weeks has been an incredible crash course in everything film making. I'm just scratching the surface of something that seems very kin to record making. There are some very interesting similarities in their creative and concrete/technical components. A couple weeks and a credit card can get you smack in the middle of it. But it takes years of learning to actually know what you're doing. And even then you may still suck!

    I can't help but think my guidance counselor swung and missed when she helped me decide what I wanted to be when I grew up.

    -r
    Ah, okay. Thanks for clarifying.
    So, from what I was able to gather on the 70D, the main things to consider are that, first, you have a smaller sensor (ASP-C), which is not necessarily anything bad, but you'll need to read a bit on the relationship between the sensor size and the camera lens to better understand the view cropping you'll get, and thus, your actual framing. Second, this camera seems to generate more noise at higher ISO values. Which means you need to be REALLY careful when lighting your scenes (something you need to do anyway when shooting with DSLRs, no matter the camera). Make sure everything is well lit and readable at low ISO values. If you need to make a scene look like it's dark, you can grade it later that way. Try to create dark moods by using lighting contrast, instead of lighting levels. It's easier to later create a darker mood by grading the shot. Which brings me to the third point... it also seems to have a slightly lower dynamic range, which makes my last comment also important.

    If you want to have the greatest latitude during post for color correction/grading, I REALLY suggest you shoot with a color curve that allows for this. Most cameras come with settings that make "pretty pictures", but that are pretty useless, if not outright terribly, for any post work. I personally always use Technicolor's Cinestyle profile for Canon, and then transcode my files over to ProRes using a LUT that preserves the latitude in my footage as much as possible. If you've never worked with these kind of color profiles, you might thing that the footage comes out looking pretty washed out and flat, and that's EXACTLY what you want. This allows the artist doing post work to have a LOT more range to work with. It's actually the same as recording audio pretty hot vs at nominal levels... if the audio was recorded taking all of the available dynamic range, that limits a lot your options when mixing/mastering.

    Let me know if I can help you understand any of this further. Good luck man!
  12. #32
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    Default Re: Avid or Adobe?

    great info toon
    Rednecks call me a Tree Hugger and Tree Huggers call me a Redneck...I must be doing something right to piss everyone off.
  13. #33
    Plays in Winger cover band Enjoys scratching self too much
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    Default Re: Avid or Adobe?

    No problem!
  14. #34
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    Default Re: Avid or Adobe?

    Yes... thank you as well.
    The technicolor Cinestyle profile is something I've been seeing a lot. LUT is next on my list of "need to understand". But I haven't even gotten as far as Googleing it yet.

    -r
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  15. #35
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    Default Re: Avid or Adobe?

    Thanks for the cheap light tip ... but more for introducing me to the Stupid Musicians Text videos. Got a good chuckle out of those.

    -r
    Gotta love glen! I get a laugh out of those every time!
  16. #36
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    Default Re: Avid or Adobe?

    Yes... thank you as well.
    The technicolor Cinestyle profile is something I've been seeing a lot. LUT is next on my list of "need to understand". But I haven't even gotten as far as Googleing it yet.

    -r
    Be careful. Color science can be a deep rabbit hole to fall into. Just remember the whole point is to make a movie ;-)
    (Kinda like getting into acoustics and the physics of sound vs making music).
    Cheers man!
  17. #37
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    Default Re: Avid or Adobe?

    Yeah. I recognized that pretty quickly. There are lot of potential distractions. I'm still pretty surface level. Trying to google terms when I see them. Get some idea of the definition. Then maybe read some of the debates/discussions around them. Then get the hell out of there! haha.

    -r
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