1. #21
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    Default Re: Actual Cost To Launch An Artist Career / Promote An Album?

    I don't know about easier to like but certainly easier to hear.

    Word of mouth is king but you can't tell your friends about music you've never heard.

    Yes, exactly.
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  2. #22
    Most friends are "on the inside". Skank Muffin
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    Default Re: Actual Cost To Launch An Artist Career / Promote An Album?

    So given that, it's almost (or probably) better for an artist to promote themselves the old fashioned way; get out there and play your ass off. Talk with people, make connections face to face. If your plan consists of only Facebook or going to a marketing agency/etc, you're looking for an easy (or expensive) way out.

    Advertising on fb doesn't make anyone stand out except to their girlfriends and family.
  3. #23
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    Default Re: Actual Cost To Launch An Artist Career / Promote An Album?

    Also, try to do something that makes you stand out from the thousands of other people who are doing all those things.
    Man! You have GOT to try a hit of this RANGE SUNSHINE!

    IMTBO = In My Thoroughly Biased Opinion
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    Never underestimate the amount of contempt a failed musician has for those of us who are still trying.
    If the party's good enough, you can actually suck to a remarkable degree.

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  4. #24
    Most friends are "on the inside". Skank Muffin
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    Default Re: Actual Cost To Launch An Artist Career / Promote An Album?

    And without coming across gimmicky/soft core porongraphic lol. I guess the variable is money after all...

    Itd be interesting if satellite radio did something similar to FM stations, but for a fraction of the cost. Say instead of $50k, maybe $100 and get your song on their station for a weeks rotation or something. Maybe this already exists, I'm not sure.

    That said, so far the satellite stations I've heard all sound like badly transcoded mp3s...
  5. #25
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    Default Re: Actual Cost To Launch An Artist Career / Promote An Album?

    Itd be interesting if satellite radio did something similar to FM stations, but for a fraction of the cost. Say instead of $50k, maybe $100 and get your song on their station for a weeks rotation or something. Maybe this already exists, I'm not sure.

    That said, so far the satellite stations I've heard all sound like badly transcoded mp3s...
    They had some channels dedicated to podcasters who were "up and coming" so to speak. But it would be interesting to to allow for some other kinds of stations. Doesn't seem like it would cost them much.

    As for the shit sound of SiriusXM ... I agree completely. It's typically really bad quality. You can stream at a "high quality" rate, but its still suspect.

    -r
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  6. #26
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    Default Re: Actual Cost To Launch An Artist Career / Promote An Album?

    And without coming across gimmicky/soft core porongraphic lol. I guess the variable is money after all...

    Itd be interesting if satellite radio did something similar to FM stations, but for a fraction of the cost. Say instead of $50k, maybe $100 and get your song on their station for a weeks rotation or something. Maybe this already exists, I'm not sure.

    That said, so far the satellite stations I've heard all sound like badly transcoded mp3s...
    There might be something like that but a fraction of the cost would probably mean a fraction of the exposure.

    Someone with a satellite hookup would presumably be able to choose between hundreds of "stations" to listen to as opposed to a few/ several stations with terrestrial radio. It's a pretty balkanized situation.

    I think there is supposedly some 'payola' type situations regarding popular playlists on Spotify, but to what end, I don't know.
    Man! You have GOT to try a hit of this RANGE SUNSHINE!

    IMTBO = In My Thoroughly Biased Opinion
    CMIIW = Correct Me If I'm Wrong
    Never underestimate the amount of contempt a failed musician has for those of us who are still trying.
    If the party's good enough, you can actually suck to a remarkable degree.

    Greedle
  7. #27
    Most friends are "on the inside". Skank Muffin
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    Default Re: Actual Cost To Launch An Artist Career / Promote An Album?

    Gotta love that. Payola, something that is supposed to be illegal yet still the main factor in artists getting played. As if ad revenue wasn't enough to make them money. Its probably just as bad as TV in terms of the ratio of music to advertising, at least for FM. I find that the ads get stuck in my head more than the music does.
  8. #28
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    Default Re: Actual Cost To Launch An Artist Career / Promote An Album?

    Also, try to do something that makes you stand out from the thousands of other people who are doing all those things.
    The simplest but scariest way is to simply be 100% yourself!
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  9. #29
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    Default Re: Actual Cost To Launch An Artist Career / Promote An Album?

    I find that the ads get stuck in my head more than the music does.
    That doesn't say much for the music, especially in an audio-only fortmat.
    Man! You have GOT to try a hit of this RANGE SUNSHINE!

    IMTBO = In My Thoroughly Biased Opinion
    CMIIW = Correct Me If I'm Wrong
    Never underestimate the amount of contempt a failed musician has for those of us who are still trying.
    If the party's good enough, you can actually suck to a remarkable degree.

    Greedle
  10. #30
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    Default Re: Actual Cost To Launch An Artist Career / Promote An Album?

    They had some channels dedicated to podcasters who were "up and coming" so to speak. But it would be interesting to to allow for some other kinds of stations. Doesn't seem like it would cost them much.

    As for the shit sound of SiriusXM ... I agree completely. It's typically really bad quality. You can stream at a "high quality" rate, but its still suspect.

    -r
    What's needed is stations with live DJs who are accessible to artists who pass some sort of vetting process.

    The big problem is what kind of vetting? The internet had made the pool of potential artists so big there's no way to vet6 them all (or even a reasonable percentage.) Perhaps require that all submissions be made on hard copy media - phonograph record or CD. That should weed out most bedroom wannabees.

    In the old days a band that cut a 45 and humped it up to the local radio station could be pretty much assured of getting someone to listen to it and probably play it on the air - now there are just too many.

    Another example of how the internet has killed music.
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  11. #31
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    Default Re: Actual Cost To Launch An Artist Career / Promote An Album?

    What's needed is stations with live DJs who are accessible to artists who pass some sort of vetting process.

    The big problem is what kind of vetting? The internet had made the pool of potential artists so big there's no way to vet6 them all (or even a reasonable percentage.) Perhaps require that all submissions be made on hard copy media - phonograph record or CD. That should weed out most bedroom wannabees.

    In the old days a band that cut a 45 and humped it up to the local radio station could be pretty much assured of getting someone to listen to it and probably play it on the air - now there are just too many.

    Another example of how the internet has killed music.
    Agree for the most part. I think the idea of a more independent, maybe indie label driven...at least not huge label driven station (set of stations) would be cool. Vetting would be tough... but then again, what's good and easy.

    As for who or where they make their music, that's of less importance to me generally. And getting a physical CD made isn't that hard either. Especially in smaller quantities. I'll burn you one of your favorite hits and mail it to you tonight, John. Records, maybe a little harder. But costing someone out of the business seems like the wrong way to go about vetting.
    I get what you're going for, but without actually listening to the music, I don't know how else you fairly credit or discredit it.

    So you'd need to make it worth the peoples while to vet the music. And since there apparently isn't enough money to pay the artist to make it, how do you pay the people to vet it? So, back to the drawing board...which is covered with a bunch of fairly useless music.

    -r
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  12. #32
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    Default Re: Actual Cost To Launch An Artist Career / Promote An Album?


    As for who or where they make their music, that's of less importance to me generally. And getting a physical CD made isn't that hard either. Especially in smaller quantities. I'll burn you one of your favorite hits and mail it to you tonight, John. Records, maybe a little harder. But costing someone out of the business seems like the wrong way to go about vetting.
    No, it's really the ONLY way to see if people are serious.

    And by "CD" I did not mean a home burned CD, I meant a professionally replicated CD with cover art.

    If totally broke punk bands could get their shit together to do it in the '70s (and some of those guys had difficulty getting their shit together to get up in the morning for their first shot) and high school bands in Norman, Oklahoma could do it in the '60s, people could do it now. It's pretty easy with CD baby.

    The record would need to be professionally manufactured to meet the standards for commercial airplay. And anyone who can't do that doesn't deserve to be taken seriously

    It's all about raising the bar back out of the muck and keeping the dreck out.

    Nobody has a RIGHT to have their mewlings forced on the public, and that's a roadmap to failure for any outlet that goes that route. You have to make the artists show a certain level of dedication and commitment.

    You wanna be "DIY", then you gotta BE diy.
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  13. #33
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    Default Re: Actual Cost To Launch An Artist Career / Promote An Album?

    I hear you. And I hear reason in what you're saying. I just can't quite get over the hump to completely buy into it. I don't have a good alternative either, so no real argument to be made from my side.
    I think because I want there to be a better way I'm reluctant to accept that forcing money into the process is the only way. But I get your point and think it's valid.

    I'm going to go back to trying to solve for world peace. Seems easier.

    -r
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  14. #34
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    Default Re: Actual Cost To Launch An Artist Career / Promote An Album?

    probably cheaper anyways.

    I guess its fairly inexpensive to replicate through a 'CD baby' type place and get a decent looking product, but it still doesn't solve the 'weeding out' problem since everyone has access to it. Looks a hell of a lot better than giving someone a CDR, tho.

    I guess there's always college stations. I think many years ago a mutual friend was nice enough to play something of ours and do a quick interview for free. That said, it was about midnight on a weeknight, so...
  15. #35
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    Default Re: Actual Cost To Launch An Artist Career / Promote An Album?

    I hear you. And I hear reason in what you're saying. I just can't quite get over the hump to completely buy into it. I don't have a good alternative either, so no real argument to be made from my side.
    I think because I want there to be a better way I'm reluctant to accept that forcing money into the process is the only way. But I get your point and think it's valid.

    I'm going to go back to trying to solve for world peace. Seems easier.

    -r
    There is a viable alternative, which is to have the government pay every artist a subsidy adequate for a decent living wage plus production costs for their music. Don't hold your breath. Also, who wants the government to decide who is and isn't worthy?
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  16. #36
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    Default Re: Actual Cost To Launch An Artist Career / Promote An Album?

    probably cheaper anyways.

    I guess its fairly inexpensive to replicate through a 'CD baby' type place and get a decent looking product, but it still doesn't solve the 'weeding out' problem since everyone has access to it. Looks a hell of a lot better than giving someone a CDR, tho.

    I guess there's always college stations. I think many years ago a mutual friend was nice enough to play something of ours and do a quick interview for free. That said, it was about midnight on a weeknight, so...
    Well, it does solve the "weeding" problem to some degree, because it eliminates everyone who isn't sufficiently committed to their art to invest a couple thousand bucks in it, give or take.
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  17. #37
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    Default Re: Actual Cost To Launch An Artist Career / Promote An Album?

    There is a viable alternative, which is to have the government pay every artist a subsidy adequate for a decent living wage plus production costs for their music. Don't hold your breath. Also, who wants the government to decide who is and isn't worthy?
    I was actually discussing this idea with a friend a few weeks ago. I told him that, in my view, given that piracy of digital media is just unavoidable, maybe the best thing to do would be to have people in a country unrestricted access to all digital media (I'll forego the details, but let's say you start with media created inside said country, just to keep things simple). Everything would be available for free (again, for simplicity, let's say that'd be books, music, movies, and TV series). In exchange, the entire working population gets a new federal tax. Let's call it the "Digital Media Access Tax" (amount TBD). The revenue collected from said tax get redistributed to the creators.
    Now, you ask, how do you define which creators are worthy of said revenue? What would prevent my neighbor's 15-year old from claiming that since his band has put out an EP on YouTube then they were entitled to a piece of the cake? I think that's where Labels/Publishers could go back to what they were before. Gatekeepers. Only "signed" artists could be eligible.

    Trying not to tear many holes on my idea (since there are no details for it, really), what do you think, in principle?
    Discuss.

    P.S. My friend actually told me "Okay... so, basically, you want to nationalize culture..."
    Yeah, I made that face.
  18. #38
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    Default Re: Actual Cost To Launch An Artist Career / Promote An Album?


    And by "CD" I did not mean a home burned CD, I meant a professionally replicated CD with cover art.

    If totally broke punk bands could get their shit together to do it in the '70s (and some of those guys had difficulty getting their shit together to get up in the morning for their first shot) and high school bands in Norman, Oklahoma could do it in the '60s, people could do it now. It's pretty easy with CD baby.

    The record would need to be professionally manufactured to meet the standards for commercial airplay. And anyone who can't do that doesn't deserve to be taken seriously
    The 20 ton, multi-warhead thermonuclear missle in the room that you seem to be ignoring is that in the '60s and '70s there was no digital replication or internet distribution so there is a much better chance that fans would buy your record at a gig (or anywhere else).

    So you're basically going to a lot of trouble and expense making something you are far less likely to sell when every fan knows that if you put physical media out, it will be available for free if it's popular enough for people to know about. And if it isn't, it won't matter.

    Nobody has a RIGHT to have their mewlings forced on the public
    Actually, it's your right to publish your own stuff, regardless of whether it's great or crap.

    And rights are spat upon in the internet age anyway. Nobody has the legal right to violate your copyrights and publish your music without compensation and/or permission, but they do it anyway, with impunity.
    Man! You have GOT to try a hit of this RANGE SUNSHINE!

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    Never underestimate the amount of contempt a failed musician has for those of us who are still trying.
    If the party's good enough, you can actually suck to a remarkable degree.

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  19. #39
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    Default Re: Actual Cost To Launch An Artist Career / Promote An Album?

    I was actually discussing this idea with a friend a few weeks ago. I told him that, in my view, given that piracy of digital media is just unavoidable, maybe the best thing to do would be to have people in a country unrestricted access to all digital media (I'll forego the details, but let's say you start with media created inside said country, just to keep things simple). Everything would be available for free (again, for simplicity, let's say that'd be books, music, movies, and TV series). In exchange, the entire working population gets a new federal tax. Let's call it the "Digital Media Access Tax" (amount TBD). The revenue collected from said tax get redistributed to the creators.
    Now, you ask, how do you define which creators are worthy of said revenue? What would prevent my neighbor's 15-year old from claiming that since his band has put out an EP on YouTube then they were entitled to a piece of the cake? I think that's where Labels/Publishers could go back to what they were before. Gatekeepers. Only "signed" artists could be eligible.

    Trying not to tear many holes on my idea (since there are no details for it, really), what do you think, in principle?
    Discuss.
    DOA

    There is no need to tear more than one hole. How many direct torpedo hits is required to sink a rowboat?

    And you provided the torpedo in your question:

    Now, you ask, how do you define which creators are worthy of said revenue?
    I don't have to ask. It all boils down to public opinion, each and every time.

    If you think you can find any other criteria that matter, I'll be in the torpedo room

    Where will the money come from?

    From people who like the music, as it always has. There is no other viable possibility. This idea has been thrown around for the past 15 years and never got any traction because it is a non-starter.
    Man! You have GOT to try a hit of this RANGE SUNSHINE!

    IMTBO = In My Thoroughly Biased Opinion
    CMIIW = Correct Me If I'm Wrong
    Never underestimate the amount of contempt a failed musician has for those of us who are still trying.
    If the party's good enough, you can actually suck to a remarkable degree.

    Greedle
  20. #40
    Most friends are "on the inside". Skank Muffin
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    Default Re: Actual Cost To Launch An Artist Career / Promote An Album?

    I don't know if its "making a wage", but in Canada there's a program called factor (foundation for assisting creative talent on records, or something like that). You submit a demo and fill out a form, the decision comes from a panel of " industry professionals". Basically, it's just another loan you'll have to pay back. I think they also give out grants, but the criteria for that is greater.

    From what I've heard, you basically have to prove to them you can pay back the loan in order to get one, or show that you're established enough. Good, because it weeds out the riff Raff, bad because even if your music's good and need help but nobody on the panel has heard of you, you're on your own.

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