1. #21
    Join Date Sep 2009
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    Default Re: Forget AT&T. The Real Monopolies Are Google and Facebook

    Last first... you certainly got that wrong. Companies like Google aren't the target market for my employer. AT&T, Verizon, Sprint, T-Mobile etc are. I've explained this to you before, for example:
    http://thewombforums.com/showthread....826#post340826

    As for living in the "real world", I certainly live in a different world than most of the folks here. It's as real as yours, and has a much larger population, so labelling me as out of touch won't wash.

    You're telling me that the company with the most, biggest server farms in the world isn't a customer for your employer?

    I guess it depends on what you mean by "real" and what you mean by "larger". Your world has certainly concentrated more wealth into the hands of fewer people while exploiting the hell out of huge numbers of people, not only the creative classes but also, to a large extent, their own lesser employees, not to mention the collateral damage to the rest of the population. I was just forced out of my beloved flat in San Francisco where I had lived and operated my studio for the last 10 years. My old landlord died and his heirs took a look at the tech boom and jacked my rent from $2000/month, which I had been splitting with a flatmate (a programmer, as it happens) to $6000/month - for what is legally a 2 bedroom flat. Turns out they found a loophole and the rent control we'd always believed we were protected by was void. My flatmate took a look at the increase and moved to Dallas, Texas, leaving me holding the bag. If it goes like things usually do in that neighborhood they'll do some cheapie remodeling and rent the place out to probably 6 techies, living 2 to a room like peons in a Hong Kong tenement. It's that way all over the Bay Area - I had to move 6 miles north of town to find a place, which totally disrupted studio operations, broke up my band, and cost me nearly 10 grand in moving expenses and incidentals, which I may never recover from. The album that we'd been working on for over 2 years had to be shelved indefinitely.

    The few people left in the Bay Area arts scene have largely been forced into illegal warehouse artists complexes in Oakland and other East Bay locations, like the one that was recently devastated by a massive fire - maybe you've heard about it? - with massive loss of life. In SF even most of those places are gone, replaced by condo development by building speculators.

    My world is a good deal more REAL than your idyllic South Pacific island and it has a hell of a lot more people in it. But we don't count to your data tycoons and those in the industries - like the one you work in - that support them.
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  2. #22
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    Default Re: Forget AT&T. The Real Monopolies Are Google and Facebook

    Define a monopoly. My definition is where you have a dominant market share, and you're abusing it, and customers have no reasonable alternative.
    Just follow the money -- who has grown amid all the downfall?
    And monopolies have changed -- Google permeates a whole lot of related markets, it's the combined impact that matter.
    When in doubt, mumble!

    EVERYTHING SOUNDS LIKE SHIT IF YA LISTEN LONG AND HARD ENOUGH.
  3. #23
    Astrological sign is "Feces"! Prefers Epiphone to Gibson
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    Default Re: Forget AT&T. The Real Monopolies Are Google and Facebook

    Originally Posted by John Eppstein
    The few people left in the Bay Area arts scene have largely been forced into illegal warehouse artists complexes in Oakland and other East Bay locations, like the one that was recently devastated by a massive fire - maybe you've heard about it? - with massive loss of life. In SF even most of those places are gone, replaced by condo development by building speculators.
    This is why so many music folk have moved to the Nashville area -- Reasonable living costs.
    Rednecks call me a Tree Hugger and Tree Huggers call me a Redneck...I must be doing something right to piss everyone off.
  4. #24
    D minor, the saddest of keys! Wing Commander!!
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    Default Re: Forget AT&T. The Real Monopolies Are Google and Facebook

    I thought you lived in NZ. Did you move?

    My world is the one with the people who don't make music, just listen to it.
    "We hear what we see." - Doris Day
  5. #25
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    Default Re: Forget AT&T. The Real Monopolies Are Google and Facebook

    This is why so many music folk have moved to the Nashville area -- Reasonable living costs.
    Yes and no. When I went out to check out Nashville I was shocked by the lack of transportation (in an urban area covering 19 counties) and the absurd amount of money I had to spend on Uber to go relatively nowhere. Saw some really nice houses, fairly reasonably priced. Had no desire to become a human jukebox, begging for $20 tips from tourists to play the same songs as everybody else playing $20 requests from tourists. Might have helped if any of the people I know there online had been willing to show me around. Wasted about $1500 (that I could in no way afford) on the trip, wasn't very productive.
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  6. #26
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    Default Re: Forget AT&T. The Real Monopolies Are Google and Facebook

    My world is the one with the people who don't make music, just listen to profit by it.
    Fixed it for you.
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  7. #27
    D minor, the saddest of keys! Wing Commander!!
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    Default Re: Forget AT&T. The Real Monopolies Are Google and Facebook

    ...
    Including other people's content which they don't have the rights to.
    ...
    No, you're stonewalling.
    ...
    You asked how much of the article I disagreed with. I said "most of it". You said "do tell", so I am.
    I'm dealing with it piece by piece because the article writer tries to tie all the pieces together to make his case. Untie the pieces, his case falls apart.
    If all you're actually interested in is the copyright infringement, feel free to come back later. While you're waiting, go find out just how much of Youtube's music content is actually unauthorised. That is, there without the permission of the copyright holders.
    "We hear what we see." - Doris Day
  8. #28
    D minor, the saddest of keys! Wing Commander!!
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    Default Re: Forget AT&T. The Real Monopolies Are Google and Facebook

    You're telling me that the company with the most, biggest server farms in the world isn't a customer for your employer?
    How many times do I have to tell you? My employer doesn't sell server farms, or their supporting infrastructure. It sells the hardware to build the telco networks that carry the data from the farms (and every other content provider's farms) to your PC / phone. (Actually, most of the networking hardware in Google's data centres is Google-built.)
    "We hear what we see." - Doris Day
  9. #29
    D minor, the saddest of keys! Wing Commander!!
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    Default Re: Forget AT&T. The Real Monopolies Are Google and Facebook

    Just follow the money -- who has grown amid all the downfall?
    And monopolies have changed -- Google permeates a whole lot of related markets, it's the combined impact that matter.
    True, Google has a lot of money. But following the money trail back doesn't lead to the record companies' pockets. It leads to advertisers' pockets. Every service they develop is to further that income.
    "We hear what we see." - Doris Day
  10. #30
    D minor, the saddest of keys! Wing Commander!!
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    Default Re: Forget AT&T. The Real Monopolies Are Google and Facebook

    Another argument in the article is that traditional news sources feel that Google and Facebook are robbing them of visitors. Visitor numbers to traditional news sites are declining, and in some cases / countries the proprietors managed to get laws passed preventing Google from linking to their stories. But they found that visits to their sites promptly dropped even further. I'm not a marketing person, but even I can see that reducing your visibility in this age of information overload isn't going to work.
    "We hear what we see." - Doris Day
  11. #31
    D minor, the saddest of keys! Wing Commander!!
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    Default Re: Forget AT&T. The Real Monopolies Are Google and Facebook

    Only in your world, John.
    "We hear what we see." - Doris Day
  12. #32
    Join Date Nov 2006
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    Default Re: Forget AT&T. The Real Monopolies Are Google and Facebook

    If all you're actually interested in is the copyright infringement, feel free to come back later.
    I can see you don't want to discuss it. No need to be disingenuous.

    While you're waiting, go find out just how much of Youtube's music content is actually unauthorised. That is, there without the permission of the copyright holders.
    Most of it. Only a select few big players are eligible for Youtube's Content ID system. And those that do, Major Labels and a few big Indies, aren't happy with the extortionate terms in the contract which, of course, are on Google/ Youtubes terms. But what can you do against a monopoly? There isn't anything else the scope of Youtube and people will upload your stuff whether you like it or not.

    https://musictechpolicy.com/2016/06/03/five-lies-in-youtubes-spin-on-content-id/

    .
    Man! You have GOT to try a hit of this RANGE SUNSHINE!

    IMTBO = In My Thoroughly Biased Opinion
    CMIIW = Correct Me If I'm Wrong
    Never underestimate the amount of contempt a failed musician has for those of us who are still trying.
    If the party's good enough, you can actually suck to a remarkable degree.

    Greedle
  13. #33
    D minor, the saddest of keys! Wing Commander!!
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    Default Re: Forget AT&T. The Real Monopolies Are Google and Facebook

    I can see you don't want to discuss it. No need to be disingenuous.



    Most of it. Only a select few big players are eligible for Youtube's Content ID system. And those that do, Major Labels and a few big Indies, aren't happy with the extortionate terms in the contract which, of course, are on Google/ Youtubes terms. But what can you do against a monopoly? There isn't anything else the scope of Youtube and people will upload your stuff whether you like it or not.

    https://musictechpolicy.com/2016/06/03/five-lies-in-youtubes-spin-on-content-id/

    .

    I'll see your spin doctor and raise you someone with less of an axe to grind:

    http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2016/08/02/98-youtube-music-videos-authorized/


    "We hear what we see." - Doris Day
  14. #34
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    Default Re: Forget AT&T. The Real Monopolies Are Google and Facebook

    True, Google has a lot of money. But following the money trail back doesn't lead to the record companies' pockets. It leads to advertisers' pockets. Every service they develop is to further that income.
    Yeah,absolutely.
    And there's the catch -- how many people visit a site, or use a service which is only advertisement? There are TV shops, but their impact and audience is incomparable to, say, a major sport event.
    So Google/Facebook DESPERATELY needs content in which to embed it's ads. Furthermore, it's in the interest of Google/Facebook that content is devalued. By devalued I mean -- more content (good, but up to a point) and the quality is pretty much irrelevant (bad).
    There's absolutely no point for Google/Facebook to back up artist development, or pay more to writers if anybody can put their product for free and give up advertising space. There's pretty much zero overhead for them and million of clicks is a million had it come from one page or million of pages.
    When in doubt, mumble!

    EVERYTHING SOUNDS LIKE SHIT IF YA LISTEN LONG AND HARD ENOUGH.
  15. #35
    Join Date Nov 2006
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    Default Re: Forget AT&T. The Real Monopolies Are Google and Facebook

    I'll see your spin doctor and raise you someone with less of an axe to grind:

    http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2016/08/02/98-youtube-music-videos-authorized/


    In the future, avoid embarassing yourself by not responding to an in-depth article you either didn't bother to read or cannot understand with simplistic propaganda that includes no details by a guy trying to sell advertising by parroting info fed to him by Google.
    Man! You have GOT to try a hit of this RANGE SUNSHINE!

    IMTBO = In My Thoroughly Biased Opinion
    CMIIW = Correct Me If I'm Wrong
    Never underestimate the amount of contempt a failed musician has for those of us who are still trying.
    If the party's good enough, you can actually suck to a remarkable degree.

    Greedle
  16. #36
    Astrological sign is "Feces"! Prefers Epiphone to Gibson
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    Default Re: Forget AT&T. The Real Monopolies Are Google and Facebook

    Seeeeee you should have given me a call. For years the old coot and I got around town via bus. They have a weird system but it somehow works. Even where our new soon to be digs are out in Springfield TN has 2 commuter bus runs.
    Sorry about the Uber thing. Being retired I would have been happy to run you around town (for the occasional Krystal fill up)
    The real problem with Nashville living has been here forever... "you live in Nashville -- but make your money on the road"
    Rednecks call me a Tree Hugger and Tree Huggers call me a Redneck...I must be doing something right to piss everyone off.
  17. #37
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    Default Re: Forget AT&T. The Real Monopolies Are Google and Facebook

    This is why so many music folk have moved to the Nashville area -- Reasonable living costs.
    It's also why a lot of real estate developers are going to lose their shirts as housing costs rise.
    Bob's room 615 562-4346
    Georgetown Masters 615 254-3233
    Interview
    Artists are the gatekeepers of truth!- Paul Robeson
  18. #38
    Has Many Personal Intergritys Expensive Boat Anchor
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    Default Re: Forget AT&T. The Real Monopolies Are Google and Facebook

    Why, Bob?
    are you saying the creative community will exodus as the place gets increasingly gentrified?
  19. #39
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    Default Re: Forget AT&T. The Real Monopolies Are Google and Facebook

    Actually it's the young computer programmers who will leave. They can live literally anywhere because of the internet. Nashville is full of dead shopping malls caused by developers tripping over their manhood.
    Bob's room 615 562-4346
    Georgetown Masters 615 254-3233
    Interview
    Artists are the gatekeepers of truth!- Paul Robeson
  20. #40
    Astrological sign is "Feces"! Prefers Epiphone to Gibson
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    Default Re: Forget AT&T. The Real Monopolies Are Google and Facebook

    You could fool me here in the Belmont area. Lots of building going on here and in the Green Hill area. Also the 8th ave area. The shops and malls are doing well. Maybe too well. Green Hill Mall is now a traffic nightmare. All cities are organic with some areas growing as some areas shrink.
    Rednecks call me a Tree Hugger and Tree Huggers call me a Redneck...I must be doing something right to piss everyone off.

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