Thread: Listening position

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  1. #1
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    Default Listening position

    I've read/watch a lot about the triangle you want to set your monitors and listening position in, but would someone be able to explain what negative effects start to happen when you move your listening position close in to the monitors? That's to say you're monitors stay out wide, you just start moving in closer, without changing their angle or anything.

    I hear the soundscape widen out a little more. More like what I hear when I put on headphones. I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing. But I also get better input on the low end. This could be that I don't have a good low end representation in the equilateral triangle set up??
    I'm fiddling around, listening to some albums today and noticing things.

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Listening position

    If you're hearing more bass as you move closer, you're likely moving out of either a modal or SBIR induced null at your mix position.

    When moving closer, or by spreading your speakers wider than an equilateral triangle, you will likely damage your phantom centre image, where most of the important stuff sits.
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Listening position

    The sweet spot should be obvious.

    The phantom middle becomes clear, the bass and low mids become focused, the stereo image doesn't sound wider than your speakers (unless you're very good).
  4. #4
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    Default Re: Listening position

    The sweet spot should be obvious.

    The phantom middle becomes clear, the bass and low mids become focused, the stereo image doesn't sound wider than your speakers (unless you're very good).
    In an ideally treated room.

    In my room, the stereo image always sounds wider than my speakers (when I want it to :p ). The real challenge is to do that with headphones.
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Listening position

    I have a null right where the primo listening position is, so I end up having to put my speakers further towards the wall than I would like in order to keep from accidentally gravitating towards this spot.

    I could flip the room 90 degrees but I would end up in roughly the same spot...

    As fun as it is to listen to, I try not to do any mixing while the speakers are shooting sound past either side of my head. I wonder if changing the angle of the speakers towards my head would help with that.

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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Listening position

    Non-ported speakers as mains here so they are right up against the front wall. They sound pretty good. They don't image quite as well as the near fields do. The mains excel at EQ where the near fields excel at placement. The sweet spot is small, but good.

    Room is smallish, but has good dimensions, and a reasonable amount of treatment.
    "I'd say ALWAYS think of yourself as the listener!" - Bob Olhsson
  7. #7
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    Default Re: Listening position

    If you're hearing more bass as you move closer, you're likely moving out of either a modal or SBIR induced null at your mix position.
    More bass or less treble?

    Not the same thing.

    High frequencies are very directional - the higher you go, the more directional they are. If you more forward of the sweet spot without changing the angle of the monitors the highest frequencies will be aimed behind your head, missing your ears.
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Listening position

    More bass or less treble?
    Jesus Christ, John... you've just sent me into an some sort of existential crisis!!

    I'm not sure!?!? I understand what you're saying but I hadn't considered it I guess. I want to say it's the bass pushing through, not the treble going away. But that might not be true. When I say "more bass" I really mean more definition in the bass. I hear the texture of the finger on the string of the bass... rather than a sort of dull thud of a string.

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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Listening position

    Jesus Christ, John... you've just sent me into an some sort of existential crisis!!

    I'm not sure!?!? I understand what you're saying but I hadn't considered it I guess. I want to say it's the bass pushing through, not the treble going away. But that might not be true. When I say "more bass" I really mean more definition in the bass. I hear the texture of the finger on the string of the bass... rather than a sort of dull thud of a string.

    -r
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  10. #10
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    Default Re: Listening position

    More bass or less treble?

    Not the same thing.

    High frequencies are very directional - the higher you go, the more directional they are.
    Perhaps.

    And yet, a cricket that finds its way into your house in the Northeast in autumn can throw its "voice" like a professional ventriloquist to the point that you are looking at an invisible cricket in the corner of your bathroom.

    It is laughing at you.

    Either that, or it's another one of your hallucinations, in which case, carry on.
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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Listening position

    Jesus Christ, John... you've just sent me into an some sort of existential crisis!!

    I'm not sure!?!? I understand what you're saying but I hadn't considered it I guess. I want to say it's the bass pushing through, not the treble going away. But that might not be true. When I say "more bass" I really mean more definition in the bass. I hear the texture of the finger on the string of the bass... rather than a sort of dull thud of a string.

    -r
    Play something like double bass while moving your head around. You'd get a good idea of what is happening in the low end.
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  12. #12
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    Default Re: Listening position

    Perhaps.

    And yet, a cricket that finds its way into your house in the Northeast in autumn can throw its "voice" like a professional ventriloquist to the point that you are looking at an invisible cricket in the corner of your bathroom.

    It is laughing at you.

    Either that, or it's another one of your hallucinations, in which case, carry on.
    I think that might have something to do with the somewhat unique physiology of the cricket's sound producing mechanism, which does indeed produce sound in all, or at least many, directions, unlike a typical tweeter, which is highly directional.

    Also, I'm not sure how high the frequencies of a cricket actually go and what the low frequency cutoff actually is. IIRC it actually starts somewhere in the midrange.

    EDIT: It seems that while cricket song can go much higher than we can heart the fundamental is generally around 2-3 kHz, upper midrange.
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  13. #13
    Former burger flipper turned Alshi expert One of those things you've never really used.
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    Default Re: Listening position

    EDIT: It seems that while cricket song can go much higher than we can heart the fundamental is generally around 2-3 kHz, upper midrange.
    Sure, but that tells us nothing about the dispersion patterns. How do we mic it properly to capture the full balanced spectrum?
    I would go so far as to say that pop art is the ultimate reflection of society.

    Donít think about that too much. Itís too painful.

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  14. #14
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    Default Re: Listening position

    How do we mic it properly to capture the full balanced spectrum?
    And which preamp sounds best for crickets?
  15. #15
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    Default Re: Listening position

    And which preamp sounds best for crickets?
    The best I could come up with was the ANT V676b ...

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  16. #16
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    Default Re: Listening position

    There are a couple of good things about recording a cricket.

    First, it doesn't matter which mic you use -- whether you use an ELA M 250 or an SM57, it will still sound like a recorded cricket.

    Another thing is after you've set up your one microphone, which is one more than I'd recommend, as soon as you've got the proper level, you're done.

    2 seconds of recorded cricket is more than anough to make a loop, and no one will ever know.
    Man! You have GOT to try a hit of this RANGE SUNSHINE!

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  17. #17
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    Default Re: Listening position

    While we've hijcked the thread to critter noises, you may have heard the old saw that a duck's quack doesn't produce an echo.

    I'm guessing that this got traction because one typically encounters ducks quacking where there isn't a nearby surface capable of reflecting their quacking.

    I live in an area where there are a lot of ducks and I have heard a duck quacking and a slapback echo come from a nearby building.

    Or should I say quackback
    Man! You have GOT to try a hit of this RANGE SUNSHINE!

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  18. #18
    Surfing the net at work every day! Naked Hang-glider
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    Default Re: Listening position

    If crickets are chirping it's a sign you should probably cease recording, and go do something productive or sleep.
    "I'd say ALWAYS think of yourself as the listener!" - Bob Olhsson
  19. #19
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    Default Re: Listening position

    The best I could come up with was the ANT V676b ...

    -r
    Ha!

    Not bad
  20. #20
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    Default Re: Listening position

    If crickets are chirping it's a sign you should probably cease recording, and go do something productive or sleep.
    Generally speaking. But there are exceptions.
    So you may say "That'll Be the Day" when you record crickets, but remember...

    Before the Beatles, there were the Crickets

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    Man! You have GOT to try a hit of this RANGE SUNSHINE!

    IMTBO = In My Thoroughly Biased Opinion
    CMIIW = Correct Me If I'm Wrong
    Never underestimate the amount of contempt a failed musician has for those of us who are still trying.
    If the party's good enough, you can actually suck to a remarkable degree.

    Greedle

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