Thread: Listening position

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  1. #21
    Most friends are "on the inside". Skank Muffin
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    Default Re: Listening position

    Oh boy, they just opened up a vynil record store near me. Can't wait! Lol

    Fwiw, ive got mine approx 4' apart and 4' off the ground with about just under 2' from the rear wall. They're also not pointing to the listening position in a perfect triangle...I guess more of a rhombus, facing out a little.

    Can't remember who, but I remember someone saying if the monitors are too wide, it'll give you a false sense of stereo spread. If I recall, any bigger studio ive been to, they always had the near fields pretty close together.
  2. #22
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    Default Re: Listening position

    What's funny is that most of the classic albums people use as their reference were mixed and mastered with monitors that were closer together than an equilateral triangle! My square, LP-lined womb forces me to have an almost but not quite equilateral listening position.
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  3. #23
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    Default Re: Listening position

    It was a big weekend for my room... lots of moving things in and moving things out.
    A buddy that's moving back to CA gave me (one of) his home theater setups. It's not a well known brand but the story behind the designer is interesting... I think he's in jail here in Colorado for embezzlement or fraud. lol. Onix is the company and I have the Rocket 760. They are geared towards music listening and home theater. I don't think they would be considered "flat", but I'm excited to have a decent second option to reference on.

    Back to the thread ... I adjusted my monitors and my listening position this weekend. I was re-reading articles talking about where in the triangle my head should be. Some said the triangle should hit you in the center of your head, some said it should hit about 18 inches behind your head. With a little experimenting I found that moving inside the triangle anywhere from 12 to 18 inches immersed me in the sound a little better. I'm going to have to keep an eye on how it affects my perception of the stereo field.
    Opposite of that, when I moved back from the triangle things shifted for the worse almost immediately. I became detached from the sound, if that makes sense. Rather than feeling like I was in the music, it very much felt like the music was up there in front of me, but I could hear the rest of the room around me too. Sort of distracting and hard to focus on the music. I think that's the nature of nearfields?

    I know I'm fighting some fundamental flaws with my basement, and yes a well built room combats that and gives you better listening across the room. But I feel like I took some steps forward in learning my room and speakers.

    By happenstance, my speakers are within an inch of being smack in the middle of the floor and ceiling. I'm wondering though, my ceiling is mostly absorptive. 9in roles of pink stuff between the joist covered with fabric. Will that help offset where the "center" is between the ceiling and floor?

    Lastly... I wish U.S. television aired more Cricket. There was some "smash tournament" from Australia on NBCSN this weekend and I enjoyed it.

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  4. #24
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    Default Re: Listening position

    What's funny is that most of the classic albums people use as their reference were mixed and mastered with monitors that were closer together than an equilateral triangle! My square, LP-lined womb forces me to have an almost but not quite equilateral listening position.
    I thought about this last night while mixing. I have a commercial workstation desk that has a monitor bridge on it. If I'm sitting at the desk, I've got an equilateral triangle.

    But during the course of listening I get out of my chair, stand behind the chair, then 3 feet behind the chair, then from the doorway in the wall behind the chair, then the next room.

    Then I'll turn down one channel and listen in mono.

    I figure that, at least for popular musical genres, on the one hand, you have a lot of people listening with headphones getting a well defined stereo image.

    But other than that, people don't usually get a balanced stereo image. In your car, your leg is blocking the left speaker. At any kind of party or bar-b-que almost no one will be listening in the sweet spot.
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  5. #25
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    Default Re: Listening position

    All of this is why LCR panning is what's happening.
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  6. #26
    Most friends are "on the inside". Skank Muffin
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    Default Re: Listening position

    I recently got a copy of audioslaves first album on vynil (after losing the CD a long time ago). I found that most of the stuff was panned dead center, with only the chorus guitars panned hard left and right. But when I switched it to mono, I barely noticed a difference in the balance at all. Almost as if they tracked a 3rd guitar just for the center.
  7. #27
    Highway to Hell is for Children Allen Bean to the Moon
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    Default Re: Listening position

    I recently got a copy of audioslaves first album on vynil (after losing the CD a long time ago). I found that most of the stuff was panned dead center, with only the chorus guitars panned hard left and right. But when I switched it to mono, I barely noticed a difference in the balance at all. Almost as if they tracked a 3rd guitar just for the center.
    Maybe they did?
    It's amazing how hard-panned guitars behave. Sometimes they would dissapear, sometimes they won't.
    I remember reading John Frusciante saying that for Dani California they deliberately tracked guitars over several days, so that L and R takes would be at different ambient conditions.
    Maybe there's a method in it.
    Dunno.
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  8. #28
    Most friends are "on the inside". Skank Muffin
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    Default Re: Listening position

    That's interesting, I wish I had the luxury of time to try that. Unfortunately, its very much 'get up and go' right now. I have heard that it plays an impact not only on guitars, but drums as well.

    To my memory, rich costey mixed that. So I also listened to mars Volta's first album, same deal. Got some ear training to do lol.

    I usually double track the main rhythm left and right. Noticed they don't exactly sit in the same spot in mono as the examples above. Guess I'll be tracking a center guitar in the next 5. Well we how that goes.

    On a side, that audioslave record is probably the loudest vynil I have. Could be Andrew schepps, couldve been rick Rubin. Either way, loud, but still good to my ears
  9. #29
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    Default Re: Listening position

    Maybe they did?
    It's amazing how hard-panned guitars behave. Sometimes they would dissapear, sometimes they won't.
    I remember reading John Frusciante saying that for Dani California they deliberately tracked guitars over several days, so that L and R takes would be at different ambient conditions.
    Maybe there's a method in it.
    Maybe... but maybe he's, um, embellishing

    I seem to recall a part in Ken Scott's book where he was being asked for his methods and he made up stories. Had people blowing up speakers

    Why not use a different guitar? Different amp? EQ? FX?

    Tracking guitars over several days... seems a bit much for most people's budget/ timeframe. Got catering?

    How about a little bit of tape sim on one side?

    No, I've never tried it -- it didn't occur to me until just now.
    Man! You have GOT to try a hit of this RANGE SUNSHINE!

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  10. #30
    Most friends are "on the inside". Skank Muffin
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    Default Re: Listening position

    Or a 'high as fuck' moment on the part of jonh. I could see it impacting drums, but electric guitar? I dunno.
  11. #31
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    Default Re: Listening position

    why couldn't they just turn on a humidifier or turn up the air conditioning for the second track, etc?

    sounds like nonsense to me.

    I've done guitar doubling over several days; but only because it took that long to get it right.
  12. #32
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    Default Re: Listening position

    why couldn't they just turn on a humidifier or turn up the air conditioning for the second track, etc?

    sounds like nonsense to me.

    I've done guitar doubling over several days; but only because it took that long to get it right.
    And could you tell the difference in humidity and air pressure between the takes?
  13. #33
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    Default Re: Listening position

    I'm not saying anyone could.
    I'm just saying that if they BELIEVED they could, there were easier answers than having to wait until another day.

    I still think the story is disinformation.
  14. #34
    Surfing the net at work every day! Naked Hang-glider
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    Default Re: Listening position

    I'm not saying anyone could.
    I'm just saying that if they BELIEVED they could, there were easier answers than having to wait until another day.

    I still think the story is disinformation.
    They're fuckin' with you, man! Moving a mic a few MM would be far more effective.
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  15. #35
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    Default Re: Listening position

    Personally I want the double to be an actual double.
    That is: exactly the same on the left as it is in the right except for slight unintentional performance variation.
  16. #36
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    Default Re: Listening position

    They're fuckin' with you, man! Moving a mic a few MM would be far more effective.
    Maybe they were fuckin' with John Frusciante and he bought it?
  17. #37
    Surfing the net at work every day! Naked Hang-glider
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    Maybe they were fuckin' with John Frusciante and he bought it?
    I'd buy that. Or maybe that's just how he remembers it.
    "I'd say ALWAYS think of yourself as the listener!" - Bob Olhsson
  18. #38
    Most friends are "on the inside". Skank Muffin
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    One way to eat up a recording budget. I'm sure the studio was happy to tinker with the thermostat lol
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  19. #39
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    Default Re: Listening position

    Maybe... but maybe he's, um, embellishing

    I seem to recall a part in Ken Scott's book where he was being asked for his methods and he made up stories. Had people blowing up speakers
    Erm, no.

    Not speakers.

    He had people blowing the ribbons out of Coles 4038 microphones by using them on kick drum.
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  20. #40
    Most friends are "on the inside". Skank Muffin
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    Default Re: Listening position

    Guess they forgot about that whole 'wind sensitivity' thing with ribbons he he

    I shouldn't talk. Once I left the ceiling fan on blast when checking levels on ribbon overheads. Thought I has having a mini earthquake!

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