Thread: The M word

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  1. #61
    Roadside Outcast Dept. Short-rope candidate
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    Default Re: The M word

    So back on track a bit, does anyone do introductory offers for new clients? Or is your rate your rate, and thats it?
    I have never done it and will never do it for new clients, but I have done for long-time clients.

    If you start out cheap, the client expects that to be the rate from here on.

    Raising your rate is a very difficult thing to do.

    Cheers,
    Tim
    Don't forget, we are all engaged in a battle to the death against mediocrity.

    The best radio mic system that money can buy is ALMOST as good as a $20 cable.

    One of the most important things to remember about sound is:
    'Sucks' is always conducted better than 'Rules'. - Pimp-X wisdom


    Never underestimate the power of stupid - Blackie C (RIP)

    Ego and talent seldom go hand in hand... Talent and humble on the other hand... - Zoesch

    Weedy ignores this simple bit of glaring obviousness because he is an "ELECTRIC BASS GUITARIST"(coughcough)
    and views the kick drum as a "bass riff rhythmic pattern suggestion generator" - Slipperman
  2. #62
    Highway to Hell is for Children Area 51 gardener
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    Default Re: The M word

    I don't. I may do a short mix snippet so they get the idea if it works for them, but my rate doesn't change.
    When in doubt, mumble!

    EVERYTHING SOUNDS LIKE SHIT IF YA LISTEN LONG AND HARD ENOUGH.
  3. #63
    Plays in Winger cover band Enjoys scratching self too much
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    Default Re: The M word

    With this one new client, I offered a lower rate followed up by saying "if you like the end result and want to continue, my actual rate is x". It'll most likely be a one off kinda thing I'm guessing. Well see how it goes. Just trying to get more earballs in here.
  4. #64
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    Default Re: The M word

    I do the "new customer" dance with my cable provider every year or two. Someone is going to give me a discount to keep my business or get my business. I don't know if that's a game you want to get into.
    Seems like Tim's approach is good. Setting the price at what you need to out of the gate. Then if the relationship is a good one and there's a reason to cut him a break later, so be it.

    Maybe tailoring some some "package deals" for your market? The "new band demo special" ... three songs, X amount of time in the studio(with some reasonable and predefined cost for going over), X number of mix revisions, yada-yada, all for the low price of $29.99.
    This appeals to me because I tend to gravitate towards things that have up front price/service lists. I tend to shy away from "contact us for rates". My inexperience probably plays a big role here.
    You're estimates for what it takes to get three songs in the can may be a little off, but it also sets an expectation for what the band needs to be ready to accomplish. Then you have the reasonable "overage rate" that leaves room to put in an extra couple of hours one evening and everyone knows what that cost. Or if you think it's worth it, invest a couple extra hours of your time to best serve the record ... but mostly in hopes it gains favor with the band.
    Maybe it's gimmicky...I don't know.

    -r
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  5. #65
    Plays in Winger cover band Enjoys scratching self too much
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    Default Re: The M word

    Not at all gimmicky. Just looking for pointers here, so thanks Tim, reno, and meloco. This particular case is a young singer/songwriter type (like just got their drivers liscence young) so I didnt wanna push my rate on the first one too much as to scare her off. But the fact I mentioned that going forward would be more expensive leads me to believe I probably won't be hearing back any time soon. Yup, probably shot myself in the foot there, but oh well. Take the risk while I can I guess.
  6. #66
    Join Date Nov 2006
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    Default Re: The M word

    Yup, probably shot myself in the foot there, but oh well. Take the risk while I can I guess.
    Or maybe your foot is still perfectly good and you used it to walk away from a bad deal. Hard to tell from here.
    Man! You have GOT to try a hit of this RANGE SUNSHINE!

    IMTBO = In My Thoroughly Biased Opinion
    CMIIW = Correct Me If I'm Wrong
    Never underestimate the amount of contempt a failed musician has for those of us who are still trying.
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  7. #67
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    Default Re: The M word

    I do the "new customer" dance with my cable provider every year or two. Someone is going to give me a discount to keep my business or get my business. I don't know if that's a game you want to get into.
    Seems like Tim's approach is good. Setting the price at what you need to out of the gate. Then if the relationship is a good one and there's a reason to cut him a break later, so be it.

    Maybe tailoring some some "package deals" for your market? The "new band demo special" ... three songs, X amount of time in the studio(with some reasonable and predefined cost for going over), X number of mix revisions, yada-yada, all for the low price of $29.99.
    This appeals to me because I tend to gravitate towards things that have up front price/service lists. I tend to shy away from "contact us for rates". My inexperience probably plays a big role here.
    You're estimates for what it takes to get three songs in the can may be a little off, but it also sets an expectation for what the band needs to be ready to accomplish. Then you have the reasonable "overage rate" that leaves room to put in an extra couple of hours one evening and everyone knows what that cost. Or if you think it's worth it, invest a couple extra hours of your time to best serve the record ... but mostly in hopes it gains favor with the band.
    Maybe it's gimmicky...I don't know.

    -r
    It's called "going the extra mile" for the client. I don't think I'd call it a gimmick. But the rate you're getting has to make it worthwhile and there has to be a limit.

    "Going the extra mile" would tend to get you in the client's good graces, makes you seem less mercenary.

    But you can't afford to go an extra 100 miles -- there's another phrase for that:

    "Giving away the store". Or: "Losing your shirt"

    I think you should be up front about it, take credit.
    If you are selling your services on a per song basis, I would think you have to give them an estimate of how much time you think it should take for a song.

    Then, when you've past that point you could say something like: "This song has taken an hour more that the estimate, but if we can wrap this up in the next 90 minutes, I won't have to charge you for extra time."

    That makes you seem generous while putting a limit on what the client can expect.

    Would that work?
    Man! You have GOT to try a hit of this RANGE SUNSHINE!

    IMTBO = In My Thoroughly Biased Opinion
    CMIIW = Correct Me If I'm Wrong
    Never underestimate the amount of contempt a failed musician has for those of us who are still trying.
    If the party's good enough, you can actually suck to a remarkable degree.

    Greedle
  8. #68
    Plays in Winger cover band Enjoys scratching self too much
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    Default Re: The M word

    Lately it seems any deal is a good one. Stuffs hard to come by.

    Its a gamble. Either she follows through, ends up likiking the product, and continues on, or shrugs her shoulders and wanders off. How can I know? Just gotta try I guess.

    Now, for someone that has a full time job, thats probably a different story.
  9. #69
    Roadside Outcast Dept. Short-rope candidate
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    Default Re: The M word

    mclights, have you sat down and crunched the numbers and figured out what your daily/hourly rate should be?

    When you have a concrete number to work with, then you can make a more informed decision about what circumstances you'd feel comfortable about offering a discount in.

    Cheers,
    Tim
    Don't forget, we are all engaged in a battle to the death against mediocrity.

    The best radio mic system that money can buy is ALMOST as good as a $20 cable.

    One of the most important things to remember about sound is:
    'Sucks' is always conducted better than 'Rules'. - Pimp-X wisdom


    Never underestimate the power of stupid - Blackie C (RIP)

    Ego and talent seldom go hand in hand... Talent and humble on the other hand... - Zoesch

    Weedy ignores this simple bit of glaring obviousness because he is an "ELECTRIC BASS GUITARIST"(coughcough)
    and views the kick drum as a "bass riff rhythmic pattern suggestion generator" - Slipperman
  10. #70
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    Default Re: The M word

    So back on track a bit, does anyone do introductory offers for new clients? Or is your rate your rate, and thats it?
    Yes, always. New clients pay more.
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  11. #71
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    Default Re: The M word


    Maybe tailoring some some "package deals" for your market? The "new band demo special" ... three songs, X amount of time in the studio(with some reasonable and predefined cost for going over), X number of mix revisions, yada-yada, all for the low price of $29.99. r
    $29.99 might pay for half your setup time, if things aren't too elaborate. Paid in advance.

    I don't need the tsouris of dealing with cheapskates and bargain hunters.

    Prices double every time you use the word "beetz". Triple if you're talking about headphones.
    http://www.johnnyoklahoma.com/

    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    Everything is some mixture of awesome and suck. We simply want the awesome to be highlighted sufficiently that it distracts listeners from the suck.
    Originally Posted by Bob Ohlsson
    The appropriate role for science is the study of observed phenomena to gain an understanding. It is not dictating what people ought or ought not to be observing.
    Hey, if I'm Grumpy, where the hell is Snow White????
  12. #72
    Plays in Winger cover band Enjoys scratching self too much
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    Default Re: The M word

    Tim, ive been doing it for a while, so going through rough time/cost analysis, it's $45/hr. The area I can kinda discount in is mixing, as I pretty much leave my master bus alone and just balance and pan stuff. The part I'm taking note time on for sure is tracking. I usually have stuff all set up before they even walk in the door, and thats a good hour or two I'm not really accounting for. But seeing as I'm at home, I figure a bit of value added service is a given.

    I have decided (after the last 4 songs I did) that I'd start charging after the 2nd recall. Seeing as I mix ad I go, I dont see how thats unfair. Unfortunately with some, its like pulling teeth.

    And john makes a good point about headphones. Giant pain in the ass/time consuming process that nobody feels they need to pay for because 'setup isn't recording'. If it isn't overdubs with the main mix blended with the old track, its a time killer and nobody ever seems satisfied with their mix. Now if I had an extra $3000 just lying around, I'd love one of those hear back systems. Too bad
  13. #73
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    Default Re: The M word

    I haven't looked at what shipping to the great white north might even be ... but this popped up here the other day.

    https://fortcollins.craigslist.org/msg/6065586250.html

    I don't really need it ... but it's cool and a pretty dang good price and I want it!!

    -r
    Sign Here

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  14. #74
    Roadside Outcast Dept. Short-rope candidate
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    Default Re: The M word


    I don't really need it ... but it's cool and a pretty dang good price and I want it!!
    That is a good price!

    Here's the price from the Australian reps: https://www.audiochocolate.com.au/al...8-style-cable/

    Plus shipping.

    I'd be really tempted to jump on that if I had a studio that catered for music recording.

    Cheers,
    Tim
    Don't forget, we are all engaged in a battle to the death against mediocrity.

    The best radio mic system that money can buy is ALMOST as good as a $20 cable.

    One of the most important things to remember about sound is:
    'Sucks' is always conducted better than 'Rules'. - Pimp-X wisdom


    Never underestimate the power of stupid - Blackie C (RIP)

    Ego and talent seldom go hand in hand... Talent and humble on the other hand... - Zoesch

    Weedy ignores this simple bit of glaring obviousness because he is an "ELECTRIC BASS GUITARIST"(coughcough)
    and views the kick drum as a "bass riff rhythmic pattern suggestion generator" - Slipperman
  15. #75
    Plays in Winger cover band Enjoys scratching self too much
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    Default Re: The M word

    Now if only our dollar wasn't so shit

    I did see a hub on reverb.com for $500, but the mixers themselves were almost 600 each. Better take back the empties...
  16. #76
    Comfortably dumb Commissioner of Rock and Roll!
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    Default Re: The M word

    Nothing that would impress anyone on paper.
    To hammer that point one last time:
    That's part of making it difficult to market your services, as long as you don't have an impressive portfolio.

    All the best,
    the keks
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  17. #77
    Plays in Winger cover band Enjoys scratching self too much
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    Default Re: The M word

    Ive found that no matter how impressive your demo reel/portfolio is, whether you get the gig depends on what youre charging. Seems as though people listen for a few seconds, then look at the price tag associated with it, and dwell on that for much longer. Then its eithet a game of chasing them around asking if they liked it, or just writing them off.

    Frankly, I'm kinda running out of fucks to give for the latter.

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