Thread: MiX iT! 2a – Q&A

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  1. #41
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    Default Re: MiX iT!#2 - The informal Q&A round

    if the tracks needs editing and fixing i usually send them back to get fixed.coz its not my job and if i start fixing stuff its just gonna take more time which in turn cost the client more money, which they don't like.

    then when its ready(fixed and edited) it gets sent back to me so i can start mixing.
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  2. #42
    Sweet Child o' Mime Gumball Rally Driver
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    Default Re: MiX iT!#2 - The informal Q&A round

    But I'm pretty sure you must be pulling my leg. I mean come on...
    I was once told be a physio therapist, that in a multi professional team, the technical split between the physio therapist and the ergo therapist (I don't know, if this is the English word - my word book lacks this particular translation) is at the shoulder.

    I expected the split between a recording engineer and a mixer to be at the tape/hard drive. Just as I expect the split between a mixer and a mastering engineer to be at the output of the stereo bus.
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  3. #43
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    Default Re: MiX iT!#2 - The informal Q&A round

    You're right, I.

    When you hand the mixer the tape/hard drive, the song is done + ready to be mixed. Everything on the tape/hard drive is complete + nothing else needs to be done to the multitrack master.

    Except for MIXING.

    The mixer will now take everything on the tape/hard drive + make it "sound" it's best. Via balancing, panning, eqing, compressing, verbing, delaying, chorusing, flanging, etc. Essentially real time processing of the multitrack master.

    The mixer should not have to fix things that anybody before them did not want changed. If they wanted it changed... they should change it.

    The mixers skill is that they know how to take a multitrack master + present it sonically in (one of) the best possible way(s).

    ---------

    I think what is tripping you up is the term "recording engineer". I believe you are taking the word "recording" too literally. Today, recording engineers do more than just recording.

    But there is actually another term (+ specialty) known as DAW (or Pro Tool) editor. But again, that is still all work that should be done before the mixing.


    Hope this helps.
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  4. #44
    goes looking for thin ice to walk on Can't drive 55!
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    Default Re: MiX iT!#2 - The informal Q&A round

    But who most often performs this procedure?

    I don't think this is as crazy a question as Charles is making out. It obviously depends on the professionalism of the whole process. I mean, if a mix turns up and I can hear that 10 or 15 minutes of quality hack editing/fixing work will make a vastly better end product, then I just do it. (Presuming a job where I know it will appreciated and not, "hey it was MEANT to be bad like that." There's no point sending it back and playing the "I'm just a mixer" line, especially if everyone looks better at the end of the edits.

    I remember clearly when Michael Brauer was moderating at Gearslutz, he was talking about his well trained assistant whose job it is to have the day's mix sitting ready and waiting at 9am each morning. And if that meant him staying up all night doing whatever he needed to do to make it work, then he was staying up all night.

    I vote that this round of Mix IT allows all sorts of editing and tuning - NOT to the point where it's like a remix; that is missing the point. But much of the problem with the last round IMHO was that there was a small bunch of excellent work, a small bunch of bad work and then a HUGE bunch of pretty good but not brilliant, somewhere in the middle work.

    The hard part was wading through all the "middle" stuff (including my own) and thinking ...
    Voice in head #!: "Has this guy done a better job with the guitars than the last guy?

    Voice in head #2: I don't know, they sound the same"

    #1: What about the drums?

    #2: Slightly brighter maybe, I can't really remember."

    But if there was more elements that could be different, then the guy who overtuned the vocals will stand out from the guy who quantized the drums a little too hard from the guy who made it all just right.

    More points of difference in the mixes will make the multitude of listening easier, but I guess there's the risk that the song might be compromised in a negative way.
  5. #45
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    Default Re: MiX iT!#2 - The informal Q&A round

    From my POV, the best way for me to learn from the process is to have everybody working on exactly the same source sounds, and by that I include pitch, timing, and fundamental source.

    Meaning, the way to get all the mixes on the same playing field is for everybody to avoid tuning changes, timing shifts (edits), sample additions, etc. The way I see it, that's the only way that we could all listen to everybody else's mixes and have a really solid comprehension that the reason mix X differs from mix Y is strictly the mix (and not e.g. samples). So if my mix sucks, and mix Q is great, I would know that if I work with the mix tools at hand then I too should be able to get Q's great result, or at least something close to it.

    I understand why people want to use sample enhancement etc., but I think that that idea is conducive to a competition and detrimental to a learning scenario.
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  6. #46
    goes looking for thin ice to walk on Can't drive 55!
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    Default Re: MiX iT!#2 - The informal Q&A round

    From my POV, the best way for me to learn from the process is to have everybody working on exactly the same source sounds, and by that I include pitch, timing, and fundamental source.
    I do agree with you from the "keeping it even" POV, but I predict like last time we'll end up with too much stuff that sounds almost exactly the same.
  7. #47
    Joan River's boytoy FBI Agent searching hard-drives
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    Clown Re: MiX iT!#2 - The informal Q&A round

    I'm delighted to participate in whatever way is decreed- and if there is a review section I'll commit again to writing about every single entry, because part of my 'skillz' as a sound hacker guy is being able to analyze and interpret what makes things sound and feel like what. I need to be the guy who, when asked 'why is it dragging?' can say immediately 'the kick is totally emphasizing an area that's real sluggish, the rhythmic drive in the guitars is MIA because they're smoothed out too much, the high percussion is so bright that it's not got any weight behind it, nothing's coming together anywhere'. To do that I have to be reviewing, not simply learning how to do what I think is best.

    Honestly, people who aren't learning to critique analytically are cheating themselves more than anybody else- not just 'I don't like this' but WHY don't I like this, what is supposed to be happening and why? I believe this leads one in the direction of being a 'record man' and knowing what has real potential for mass appeal, rather than just specializing in neat sounds.

    I actually think it would be fine to allow all forms of sample replacement and tuning- perhaps one day even retracking though that is not a mixer concern- that would be sort of 'produce it!' instead. Because the thing is, just because someone has license to take it in a direction doesn't mean that will be good, at all. Like Slippy says, uniformity is NOT perfection, and Charles likes to have a 'wtf?' element in the mix that sticks out. People will not win simply by producing the slickest mix unless the whole point is to make the mix most immune to criticism.

    I don't critique that way, so you're not going to win with me by doing that, and I _am_ one of the people guaranteed to crit everything. Do something awesome, not just something above criticism. Make me fascinated, don't just take out everything to complain about. I want some 'WTF I can't stop listening' stuff since I'm committing to a crit for every entry, go listen to MiLAR's conceptual stuff again and whatever the tracks are, go find the song and make that bigger.

    Should be fun!
  8. #48
    Bassist/struggling pizza boy! Digs Ditches
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    Thumbs Up! Re: MiX iT!#2 - The informal Q&A round

    I'd really like others to critique my mix but I don't have the time to return the favor to seventy other mixers. I think the three mix idea is really workable.
    Baeli
  9. #49
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    Default Re: MiX iT!#2 - The informal Q&A round

    I just stumbled onto this forum and think that the whole event is genius, I cannot wait to get involved. Also, is there a way to get notified when the Mix It starts or should I just keep checking back to the forum?
  10. #50
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    Default Re: MiX iT!#2 - The informal Q&A round

    Hey,

    I'll signup this time for the 2nd mix event.

    Looking forward to it

    malice
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  11. #51
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    Default Re: MiX iT!#2 - The informal Q&A round

    I wanna use samples because:

    (a)I do it in pretty much every mix (reinforcement, not replacement)

    (b)it would be nice for the guys who've always struggled to figure out how to use samples to see the techniques that work.
    "Yep there are delays and also an old 910 harmoniser on the snare on that album, with the feedback turned up and pitched down to give some length to the snare on BIB. Pretty standard trick in them olden days" - Mike Shipley
  12. #52
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    Default Re: MiX iT!#2 - The informal Q&A round

    Dunno if anybody has mentioned length yet (ooh, er), but it seems to me that a fairly short song would be a good idea. That way it's easier to listen to more ppl's work.
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  13. #53
    Frustrated Chick Rock singer...now doing jazz standards poorly! Confused by Rosie O's attraction to Tom Cruise
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    Default Re: MiX iT!#2 - The informal Q&A round

    I'm actually just about to go to the dark side and purchase Drumagog with some Steven Slate samples. I've played around with the demo version of Drumagog before, even using it in a couple songs (really saved my butt). I agree with Knightsy that hearing (and hopefully seeing it explained in the in-depth mixes) how pro's use them will help me very much.

    I'm excited about MiX iT #2 (which presumably is the teenage girl's version of Mix It #2 - j/k j/k I realize it's from the MiLaR acronym) and was bummed that I couldn't participate in the first. Still enjoyed hearing the mixes.
  14. #54
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    Default Re: MiX iT!#2 - The informal Q&A round

    Looking forward to participating this time 'round. If folks want to use samples, fine by me. Maybe I'll play around with it a bit and learn something new.


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  15. #55
    Frustrated Chick Rock singer...now doing jazz standards poorly! Yknee cnut
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    Default Re: MiX iT!#2 - The informal Q&A round

    Stupid question, since I wasn't part of the first Mix It.

    Will there be the opportunity to hear other people's mixes prior to submitting our own?
  16. #56
    goes looking for thin ice to walk on Can't drive 55!
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    Default Re: MiX iT!#2 - The informal Q&A round

    Stupid question, since I wasn't part of the first Mix It.

    Will there be the opportunity to hear other people's mixes prior to submitting our own?
    Well, if it's like round one, there will be a window where people can submit their mixes - I think it was two or three days from memory.

    I guess that means that if some people get their mixes in right on the first day, you could hang back a day or so until you submit yours.
  17. #57
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    Default Re: MiX iT!#2 - The informal Q&A round

    I don't do that either, but since so many others wanted to we're allowing it.



    Neither of those is mixing either.

    I've never understood the confusion.

    Mixing is mixing.

    Editing is Editing.

    And what does Beat Detective have to do with mixing?

    Why would any1 expect to turn tracks over to a mixer + then expect the mixer to fix problems with the timing or tuning of the instruments.

    That'st not the mixers job. That's not what the mixer has been hired to do.
    I think the confusion stems from the difference between project studio stuff when sometimes the trax are poor vs. major label stuff when the turds have been pre-polished

    The tracks are supposed to be in good shape when the mixer gets them. I'm comping my lead vox tracks in my Cape team, for example, not the mix engineer. Better if the mixer can concentrate on mixing.

    Count me in, BTW, OH YEAH!
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  18. #58
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    Default Re: MiX iT!#2 - The informal Q&A round

    Neither of those is mixing either.

    I've never understood the confusion.

    Mixing is mixing.

    Editing is Editing.

    And what does Beat Detective have to do with mixing?

    Why would any1 expect to turn tracks over to a mixer + then expect the mixer to fix problems with the timing or tuning of the instruments.

    That'st not the mixers job. That's not what the mixer has been hired to do.
    100% agree!
    Editing drum tracks for half a day spoils the impression of the band/song!
    Kills my mood for mixing. When I mix I want to be fresh, I want to discover something new every time I play the song. And if I know every little thing in the song BEFORE I mix, I don't know what to do, I'm lost ... That's why mixing my OWN music is always a pain to me.
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  19. #59
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    Default Re: MiX iT!#2 - The informal Q&A round

    MiX iT! 2 has begun. Visit the song submission thread to post a song you would like to have others mix.

    Please continue the discussions, or ask questions, here in this thread.

    Thnx!!
    Last edited by Charles Dye; December 3rd, 2007 at 07:18 PM.
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  20. #60
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    Default Re: MiX iT!#2 - The informal Q&A round

    MiX iT! 2 has begun. Visit the song submission thread to post a song you would like to have others mix.

    Please continue the discussions, or ask questions, here in this thread.

    Thnx!!
    Since only subscribed mixers are allowed to poll: where's the sign up thread?

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