Thread: MiX iT! 2f - All Mixes Discussed (ChrisJ)

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    Default MiX iT! 2f - All Mixes Discussed (ChrisJ)

    OK, again with the 'crit everybody', as usual since there are 52 entries it's 'immediate reaction'. That's fair enough as that's all most people will give you... monitoring on my mastering rig, Lavry Black/Channel Islands D100/my studio mains (big spherical horn thingys)

    This is its own thread- I have the crits in a file, so if this isn't OK delete the thread and I'll repost. I intend to be available to be argued at, but bear in mind I'm not posting about being 'technically correct', it's strictly about what VIBE I'm sensing, and I'm doing my damndest to analyse and interpret WHY I'm getting that reaction. I'm happy to relisten if you figure I heard wrong, but I do have a bit of a clue and am not being arbitrary. That goes double for you guys who have very professional mixes that left me cold- some of the things I'm saying have also been said in MILAR. I respect the ability to perform a very professional mix, but I want to be hit emotionally by the song, and you simply do not accomplish that by taking perfect control and uniformity- you only become immune from technical criticism, and that is SUCH a dead-end for talented people.

    Over to the crits. I _think_ I got everybody, but I thought one file was a duplicate or two versions and it might have been two different people.

    Princeton- Sounds kinda experimental, and I immediately don't want to hear any more when the lead vox is over a telephone. Sorry- the first one is always not so chatty...

    AngelBomb- HEY LOUD! Sure have drum impact, that's kinda cool though a bit bludgeoning. They're kinda hyped and pointy. This is really big and dramatic, though I'm not caring that much about the plight of the guy singing.

    wkrienke- Whoa, that's weird. Funny resonances on things, vocal obnoxious by design. It's like a spy film, on peyote. At least this conveys the drama, but in such a weird way... tres experimental.

    ArgyleSox- Damn bright! Sounds kinda hollow and grating. When the Fs are frying you worse than the esses something is amiss. It sounds very much like somebody's trying to look like a spectacular mixer but without actually making anything appealing to listen to, and that's mostly the sheer brightness- everything has a texture like tinsel.

    CaptainHook- Immediate sense of a blend, you can hear everything. Drums are sort of going fwap fwap- like the impact is levitating two feet above the actual drum, but sometimes it has great presence and texture. This is causing me to think about mix elements instead of the performances. The vocal feels like a mix element more than it feels like a person. Why? Maybe partly because it's very tightly controlled and doesn't have any outbursts or rough edges- sounds like a voice, acts like a distorted guitar. I am writing extra because I know this isn't the normal opinion- it's bugging me- everything is obediently settling into little niches and doing only what it's supposed to, the element of surprise and unexpectedness is way not there. Sorry- not as big of a fan. Too slick?

    MicTayler- Distant, kinda big- some tricks like a pitch-shift harmony- I'm liking the old-school quality here and trying to figure out how to explain why I'd like this and not like the much more skilled CaptainHook when everybody else does. I think it's 'biggenation': this one's much much less focussed because all the elements take up more space. It's a bit wasteful and stops it being loud and focussed, but it means any element can have more variation within itself. I DO like this one, possibly the most so far.

    3holeface- Right-away-loud and aggressive. I kinda like the drums but there are weird things, cool impacts happen but they're not following the flow of the song. I think this gets the sense of bombast and drama, but it's not very appealing to listen to, sounds can be annoying in their effort to have super high impact. Points for the will to RAWWWWK though

    24bit441- Big, wide, empty. There's something un-present here, maybe it's the refinement of the highs? It's like the highs are all wispy refined superhighs, but there isn't any midrange rip. Some things like the feel of the drum beat feel good, but there's just the sense of washiness, and maybe that's just having a lot of reverbs and delays but the verbs aren't actually DEEP, just loud. Up front there's not only the music, but also washes of verb coming forward. I like verb to be a lot farther back than this. VERY eighties, though.

    Anduin- hey, no attempt to squash! But I'm feeling some of the same washiness issues- I guess it's because there's a really strong doubler effect on the lead vocal. It stopped... trying to figure out how I feel about this- hey, that step-filter thing is fun to listen to- it's like this isn't bringing out the passion and overemotionalism in the song. Compare to the less pleasing sounding 3holeface, where the whole thing feels REALLY IMPORTANT MAN! AAAAAHHH! I guess this is too laid back. The music is well behaved, could be soft rock. I have a weakness for the ones that make it seem like the end of the world...

    Annex2- Okay, this seems pretty kickin'... distracting kick echoes make it try to be doubletime, which I'm not sure how I feel about that. Vocal is emotionally there but not commanding, but key stuff like the second 'GO to war' is able to snap. The guy freakin' snapped that one off with incredible verve, I want to be hearing it. I think I like this one- I'm feeling the attitude behind the lead vox, I'm feeling the drums thump and kick, and nothing else is getting in my way. Only complaint is, it's coming off as old (which I love) but that would be a handicap in today's market. It's not bringing the alive, organic quality forward into 2008, it's a classic rock track. Maybe that's OK? But you can't REALLY go home again, gotta incorporate some of what's happening today somehow.

    bobogura- Speaking of 2008... we have a Dye Disciple, with everything incredibly slammin' and edgy. I'm kind of liking it, enough that it would be interesting to get notes on stuff like the drums. This is SO Dye, holy shit. What would happen if you backed some of this off a bit? It's like a 'psychotic audibility mix', everything has the same degree of YAAAAAAHHH!. Can there be variation? It's great that you can get everything this exciting but it's way lacking in flow and contrast. Oh, demerits for walkie-talkie effect, you're modern enough without that. Why didn't you do that for the one two one two three four and allow the PREVIOUS bit to go a bit mellower? It was an intimate moment, not a 'walkie-talkie FX' moment. Still, the 'modern mixing' force is STRONG with this one.

    bonnybilly- Thumping, direct. Makes me want to headbang. The vocal is a little shy, but the attitude in it is very obvious and I like that a LOT. This one's got a lot of capacity for surprise, everything isn't all crammed into little sonic roles. It feels kind of bombastic, like the mixer thinks the rhythmic drive comes exclusively from the drums, but that's not really a problem. Maybe only a bit, because the kick and bass are fighting and that's why it seems so bombastic and heavy, but it also gives it some glue and throb, so real judgement call- that might be part of what I like about it.

    Booman- Somebody else is a Dye fan- or that style- you can tell by the smashing, harmonically dense quality. Of course I like how loud the vocal is everything else blurs a bit, which you wouldn't think it would with all that extra brightness, but when you get it with distortion and compression guess what? Things blur into a gritty wash. There's definitely some of that. it's interesting to hear where things 'stack up' in these mixes, this one's definitely crammed full of high mids but not spiky. I call Dye fan possibly even MILAR owner!

    Calvin- More old school, definitely- there's a lot of space in here, which is a problem in the 2008 market. Whoa, intense reverb effect! Sounded pretty cool, though one thing- the guy kicked up the intensity a notch then, you could go WITH that and making him farther with verb and echo is more fighting that and averaging out to about the same amount of immediacy. I think it's definitely not a given that if a guy starts belting, he has to be moved farther away. Uniformity isn't the secret unless you're trying to avoid criticism- it's like when Charles says to put in an element that's obnoxious and sticks out. If that element is the vocal delivering a special line that's an even more passionate restatement of something, well- perfect choice. I am very dubious of the idea of hitting more reverb there just because it's louder- that's logical, but to me it was like he went for the throat then, he comes AT you twice as hard. But then, it's just my opinion

    ChrisJ- who let this guy in here? Seriously- here it seems kinda heavy, and ruthlessly intense on the old vocal. That's what I wanted- in context with the others it seems exaggerated, which I can admit. I think I plopped a Peggy Lee vocal level on a rock track. mmmmkay On the whole, BLOODY EXPERIMENTAL with levels, not excepting the 'thin weedy and buried' violin which is opposite of the lead vox, that one's meant to be gratituously QUIET. I guess the lesson here is- whatever hobbyhorse you're riding, get half off it, because I didn't need to push any of the level stuff as far as I did.

    danbee- Boy, that sure is loud! So bombastic it's funny. My god, even the guitars are getting into the act. It's kinda cool! Not out of line with the spirit of the song. Maybe a little embarrassingly overwrought? I do like the balance between stuff being controlled and stuff bursting out in all directions. It feels FUN. This is what being in a band as a kid felt like you gotta get some props for that!

    Daunt- What with the beginning noise, differences in ambience, it feels kinda out of balance. On the other hand there's a modernistic quality about it... but on the whole it just doesn't feel like the mix is being controlled properly. I can't put my finger on anything real specific, maybe some of it is just image weirdness, like drums coming from funny directions and transient weirdness- some drums are real far, some cymbals are way closer and sort of sticking out on the righthand side of the mix- it's like abstract art but the song doesn't want to be so disconcerting. Sorry for not digging it.

    DeMontague- OW! No way I'm going to be listening to all of this. Obscenely loud and slammed right at the intro. I wonder if the whole thing is volume inverted? Maybe a bit. It's like this is a edgy aggressive mix slammed beyond recognition. You've got guitars blasting away and burying the lead vocal, you've got an incredibly slamming snare but tinsely cymbals distracting from it proving that overheads get in the way on heavy music... see how slamming you can get things without killing the 2-buss? This isn't making the correct things overwhelming. And I did get to the end, actually, but it was like strapping two shortwave radios to my head- just raw noise without enough personality. Please, don't just pick stuff like guitars and snare and make them overwhelming, the song itself will point out stuff that wants to be big.

    Dino- Sort of like baby Dye! Oh my god. This is cute and really obnoxious (hey, actually _I_ am being cute and really obnoxious. sorry!). I can't believe how weak and quiet this is considering how many Dye tricks are being used, up to and including the parallel distorted bass. hey man, the distorted bass isn't MATCHING anything. Dye does it to MATCH the distortion levels of stuff like drums (Slipperman makes his match the distorto of the guitars) but this isn't matching anything, it's just poking out and buzzing. Way too much vocal FX make them into a wash. The snare pokes out all by itself without anything to go along with it- you could have the bass distort doing that but it's not, it's too saturated and too quiet relative to the snare. These things are not just done in isolation, they have functional purpose. Make stuff work together more, not be isolated Dye-ian sounds.

    Dolld- AAAAAAHH! *ROFL* Sorry dude, I just shut it off. You gotta be kidding. Is the whole song one big 'When The Levee Breaks' drum track? Let's re-check. I will tell you this- if the lead vocal did NOT have a bunch of verb on it, if it was out front of everything else, I would have kept listening to see if anything happened. I would wait and see if the whole texture changed on me, if it was a sort of shock-you trick. But instead the vocal suggested 'the whole mix is gonna sound like this from beginning to end' and man- I can't listen to that. Don't DO this. It doesn't work, it's NOT better than boringly having the tracks up there to be heard. Start by getting balances without the compression and seeing what needs to be big and what needs to be little.

    dreamsound- hmmm. hmm. New Wave much? So 80s. Yet, I like things about this. Not the vocal echoes, though. your daaw, your daaw, your daaw? However, the kick and bass are REALLY bouncy, and the important stuff like vocals has character, and the fucker DRIVES even though it's not super loud. And the keyboards are total 80s cheese yeah, I kinda like this. You could do with a bit of de-essing with that treble boost there. This is really compact and tidy and well groomed with incredibly stupid 80s hairstyles and I would love to see the video, which would be top 3 of 'worst of the 80s videos' and have horrible bluescreen effects poorly done all over it. *ROFL* and it ends with your daaw your daaw! Okay, I don't know if you're joking but you made me smile, bigtime.

    Dynamik Studios- Oh my. What the fuck is that drum business? It's like a giant inflatable clock on Quaaludes. I like how strong the vox are, though they sound kind of stylized- it's the vocal treatments. Bass is missing in action and so butchered by the drums that it's not even funny- other stuff is wedged into little cracks here and there- I'm sorry, this is so unbalanced it hurts. I'd say the main reason is, you're trying to make EVERYTHING run off the kik and snare, and everything else is so butchered by this that it's like the rest of the song isn't even there. The guitars in particular sound like they're wedged into little boxes, ruthlessly sculpted away from everything else. I heard a telephone-y effect on a vocal, isn't that the last thing you need here? You've got to build it out of more elements, widen things instead of narrow them. It sounds just like a hip-hop mix but this type of music isn't made that way, it doesn't have that starkness and ear-hurting edge to it. Stuff has to hit more BROADLY than it is. It wasn't fun to listen to, that way.

    Evil_Jack- OK, it's reverb time, but things aren't really getting buried by it- it's reverb that isn't choking everything. Maybe this is because there's plenty of predelay? Sure is a big room. I like the bass and drums but the low end isn't kicking, it's a little thin and pointy. The toms do have some oomph to them though, same with the snare. All in all it feels balanced. It's like if this was dry it would be really aggressive and exciting, and the verb rounds it out and adds body.

    halsu- Hmmm. We are bright, yes we are, precious. Bordering on annoying. But we are also balanced and we have a bloody frightening snare attack and a kick that feels like a really heavy foot, and not an electric stapler. I'm interested, yes. Always a bit irritated by how bright and grating things want to be, but wanting more. I like the size behind the band- this is a bigger scale than I'm used to hearing from stuff this bright and loud. This guy has to be working as a mixer- this is too well crafted and expressive to ignore. Maybe I'm just a sucker for drums that sound kinda realistic, but played incredibly hard. This is the first mix that I know I want to vote for as one of the three final.

    Immanuel- we are arranging in mix. Hmmm. WHOA we're not in 2008 anymore! Abandon expectations for modern mix topology and re-appraise on its own terms. Okay... nothing is obnoxious, for starters. Thank you. But, the lead vocal isn't lacking in passion- he hasn't been smoothed off too much. Drums are small, tidy, appealing. Bass is really, really warm and fluid. Guitars do in fact have edge to them but they're set way back, not in your face... wow. Immanuel, I'm a dangerous critiquer this MIXIT and very bitchy and complaining, but you're winning me over sheerly by how NICE your mix sounds and how everything is just pleasing and appealing. You could do yacht rock with sounds like this and get away with it- I'm worried that it can't fly in 2008 and then I think, to heck with 2008 then! How are you mixing this, is it on an analog board? There's something very right and natural here even though it's seriously un-modern in character. Thank you for trying to make things sound NICE and appealing. It is out of style.

    Jakob- HI 2008! WE'RE BACK! Wow, but everything is loud. Everything is equally loud and present. The gnarl on the bass track is as loud as the grind on the guitars is as loud as the graunch of the echoing guitar notes... I dunno, this is technically proficient but uniformity is NOT the big secret, how is it possible that the graunch of guitar echoes is as important as the lead vocal? Which sounds great, by the way, but yikes. This is a REALLY BAD CASE of meatloaf disease- everything is louder than everything else. It's brilliant technically and doesn't even sound too obnoxious but when everything is important nothing is. If nothing takes the lead, it's forgettable because your ear simply cannot pick a winner out of all the great sounds all around. SOMETHING has to take just a support role, I don't care if you're so skilled that you can make everything perfectly balance at all times. Demote something to 'less important'. Your skill is getting in the way by not letting anything take over.

    JFranze- Headbanging drums, right away. We're headbangers, oh yes. Maybe a little punk, the sounds are not taking pains to be appealing, they're just pounding. Actually that's not true, the guitars and synths take the 'pretty' role, the vox and drums are the raucous elements. That's kind of refreshing considering how many mixes just make the guitars shrill and grinding- these ones are tasty and it contrasts nicely with the edge and 'tude of the vocal. I'm warming up to this approach, woops, arranging in mix! OK, but not a big improvement on the original arrangement. Anyway, I'm seriously won over by the contrast between pretty and nasty here. All the instruments are pretty, the drums are raucous, and the vocal is raucous too- which lets it command attention from all the other instruments effortlessly. NICE. Makes me wish I did that, it worked so well.

    Knightsy! Also known as the 'probably how the band wanted it' mix, because he originally mixed it for them. I can feel a lot of that in there, the balance- what I don't feel is, a lot of guts to the kick, or a lot of personality to the vocal. It's like everything is turned up to about '7' where, for a lot of mixes, stuff is turned up to about 25 and destroying the mix. I'd like to hear more 'tude on things and the drums are definitely a little polite and sedate. I mean some of the mixes have PSYCHOTIC drums and these are nice but pretty well behaved. Go more crazy, do stuff that's a little more obnoxious. Everything is doing the right things, it's just inoffensive, too safe.

    likelystory- Okay, you can calm down a bit this is so dramatic it feels like my head is in a vise, with my eyes wedged open like Alex in A Clockwork Orange. I'm scared to look away, mix will eat me I think a lot of that is just how brutal the floor-tom and guitars get. The previous entry where I said things shouldn't all balance perfectly? Having the vocal's drama balance mainly with thundering floortom and intensely dramatic low guitar notes is...uh... DRAMATIC. You're sustaining it really well, with the violin offering contrast very well, and the guitars kicking things up a notch just right, but OMG SO DRAMATIC EEEEEE. The sense of fun is a bit lacking. It's like an assault EMOTIONALLY the way you hit me with the song, leaves me wanting a more relaxed approach. I'm listening to Immanuel's again to decompress. There's a good point here actually- more about uniformity- you START so dramatic there's no way to take it up a notch. The song can shift gears but you've got it in top gear from the very start.

    maartenl945- Yikes, same deal I suspect! Actually, not so much. We have cruise control for verse 1, we have changes in intensity- for some reason, your drums can really kick in. I think it's because they're a bit spread out, they're not too pointy or too distorted. We've got that, against a really big backdrop of sustaining, reverby stuff, with the lead vox nicely set in front of the backdrop. I think the REALLY killer part of this mix is the drums- the way you're getting dynamics and ferocity out of the drums is just great, you can practically see the guy there moving as he beats the crap out of the kit, he explodes all over it and never loses that swing. Second big choice for the three picks, because I want to know more about how those drums work- they are doing seriously useful things in the mix, not just making neat sounds.

    MacGregor- Hello, thrumming bass! That sounds nice. Our drums are raucous, yes. Very punkish, they're a ragged splat and sound kinda cheap, not slick, because of the way they're compressing. Maybe it's just the snare doing that. In the same vein, the lead vocal sounds very plain and natural- like a studiedly unslick thing, no hype. In a lot of ways this sounds like the most awesome local band imaginable- a real discovery BEFORE they're discovered, before they're even really at the peak of their powers. I think this has a lot to do with the way the mix fits together- it's sort of rounded, fits together in a funny way, bass wrapping around the kick in a way that nothing comes off especially hyped. I've rarely heard the dynamics in the bass part this well. Bizarre, because so much is great about it but it's not exciting me. I think what's happening is, almost all your sounds have the transients knocked off the front bigtime. It makes everything glue like CRAZY but the capacity to shock and startle is lost. It's most clearly heard on the snaredrum, but it's everywhere. If you compress lots of things, your attacks are too fast, it's controlling everything too much.

    masseyplugins- Hey there fellow plug-man! I do totally want to hear more about what you turned to for personal use out of your plugs. As far as what happened- I'm liking your textures. I bet that's down to the quality of your coding. There's just a bit of that excessive glue quality going on here- I would like more edge, I'd like more stuff poking OUT of the glue to make a point. It's almost symphonic, the tone colors you get (God, that violin got nice) but you're going a hair too far, things are too glued, too smoothed off. Like the second verse's 'go to war'- the guy snaps that off with incredible verve, and that verve is being smoothed. Sometimes stuff has a wild crazy edge that needs to stay there, what you've got has turned it into a kind of tone color and some of the immediacy is lost even as the color becomes prettier. I suspect it's the same thing that constantly plagues me- "I can do this, let's show it off". I want more contrasts in an actual mix. Check out JFranze's entry and notice how his guitars are pretty (though not as pretty as yours!) but the vocal and drums have a much rawer edge.

    meloco_go- couldn't open. In anything. sorry dude. I tried a couple different programs, not just stuff using Quicktime. Charles needs to be telling people to use .m4a only, .aac caused problems for me too and I had to replace my original file.

    musicdog- what the FUCK? Massive file damage. It's violently sputtering and making a strange buzz. Whatever you used, no worky- please tell us what the hell it is, because that's just fucked. Charles! The next generation file format is showing signs of strain!

    Nizzle- Holy shit, is this loud. Balance is pretty good. The thing is, it's already showing signs of 'everything louder than everything else' and that's not good. The floor tom reverb is NOT more important than the character in the voice. I object. That vocal is fighting for its LIFE man, kudos to you for giving it enough balls to fight it out, but shame on you for attacking it so hard. Then when it gets a break in the lull, you're strangling it with a flange. Jeez, the poor guy seriously, this is totally radio-friendly for 2008, but in getting it there you've turned it into a nonstop blast of energy and when everything is exciting nothing is. Dude. WHEN EVERYTHING IS EXCITING NOTHING IS. Let something lose the fight as long as it's not the lead vocal Makes me crazy when you technically proficient, professional guys do this.

    nobby- hey, it's a dub mix! Not really, but that's one subterranean bass and we sure have a lot of echo and stuff on the vox. And the kick occasionally slings a HUGE amount of lows. I'm loving the obsession with the vocals, though- this is ALL about the vox, and I love that. Somebody else listened to Mixie last time, and decided to make stuff LOSE to the vocal. In some ways even more than my tomfoolery- in this, like EVERYTHING is buried except the vox and the bass activity. Which is sure fun. What the hell did you do to the kik, Nobby? Half the time it's not there and then WHUMPH, we're talking Jurassic Park bass. I like to have it a little more consistent than that, but you sure highlight some of the kickdrum accents that way.

    Norman_nomad- I guess if you can mix like this you can BE a nomad and still get work boy, this is really good judgement. You've got all different energy and dynamic levels happening, you've got neat tone colors popping up, things are gluing together in a useful way- I'm not totally thrilled with overdriving the vocals but you're making it work and the same attitude that's originally conveyed by vocal overtones is getting conveyed by the overdrive tone color. You lose a bit of immediacy but seem to be even compensating for that somehow... Nice nice work. I think the only thing I really end up wanting is for the vocal to be more natural and direct, and if I hadn't heard the raw tracks I would never know there was anything I was missing. There's just a bit of personality in the vocal that gets lost very easily in distortion, even compression, and there's no way you could have retained that while still getting the sound you wanted.

    Pootkao- hey, nice! This has a bigness and solidness that's immediately appealing. KILLER kick drum, I say. I'm also very pleased with the vocal, I always look for a certain rawness that lets the character come out. Verse 2 where he goes 'aaah would go to war for your daughter' is a dead giveaway- handled right, it's pure star quality and you've got it handled right. The rest of the mix doesn't really fight the vocal, even though it's big and solid throughout. Dude, this is SO listenable. It's also really quite loud, but it's working for you, not against you- probably because it's not pumping crazily with compression or screaming with excitement the whole time. I'm truly impressed with the musicality of this mix and it sounds totally like a record worth buying.

    prschmitt- Huh. Loud buzz and then the music isn't that big. I sense compression- a bit of compression- compression enough to make vocalist breaths louder than most instruments. Compression everywhere. The decay of the crash cymbal is more important than the smashing of said cymbal... you see, the thing with this is, it's like tone poetry but it's musically confusing as hell. There isn't a THING about this music that's coming out with the force of the actual performance, 100% reimagined into a continuous fluid wash. If this was peaklimited to death it would be unlistenable- since it's not, it's just confusing. You can't feel the music at all, you're just surrounded by colors. At least slow the attacks down so transient spikes can happen.

    reincarnage- the carnage of my ear drums, you mean? This is a freakin' Godzilla mix, there isn't a bit of balance. What on earth is going on with the kick? It's like outrageously loud, and yet it still fades in and out a bit, it's not even. I would think that if you were making it this oppressive you'd want it to be more consistent. Stuff's all out of balance but not enough to make me think it's on purpose- stuff unexpectedly gets in the way, loud for no reason in the lower mids or poking out. Yikes, the 1000 pound violin. I'm sorry- STUDY more. Listen to mixes that you like and try to identify what's loud and what's not. You can probably get a start by doing straight fader mixes without distorting (or compressing, or limiting) the 2-buss. That won't sound 'right' but it will FORCE you to deal with relative volume, and you're hiding from it by abusing compression. You're not controlling your track levels, they are controlling you. CONTROL THEM. Mix just with levels and no compression until you can guess better what the tracks are going to do...

    Ryst- back among the living, we have the technical facility to produce an attitude from the song, and that attitude is- kinda new wave, but with taste. The drums are controlled so well (or possibly just sample replaced?) that they are sort of machinelike. Very machinelike actually- and things aren't real upfront. This is sort of a majestic, cool presentation, like if Ric Ocasek did opera. EVERYBODY in this band is wearing shades

    shhpeaceful- wow, we're not in 2008 anymore! This is so dynamically polite it's quite startling. Let's see what it does with the gift of available dynamic energy. It does... not much. I'm starting this over and turning it up 6 db JUST so I can get a sense of if it rocks. ...ok, 6 db up it's STILL polite. It seems very faithful to the feel of the tracks, which makes me suspicious- I know I screw up a lot but I try to find the feel of the MUSIC which may have very little to do with what the tracks give me. This is very nice and inoffensive but it's like a demo or a board mix of a live gig- it's got enough personality to not seem like it's smoothed off and smothered, but I get the sense that NOTHING is brought out more than the source tracks. It even has the two countoffs simultaneously. Dude, take some chances! This makes me think, so if everything is exciting nothing is exciting? Well, if nothing's wrong, EVERYTHING'S wrong. You just can't sit that far in the safe zone.

    Strat+AC30- We now return your 2008 to the fully upright position- not really because this isn't obnoxious, just very solid and upfront. Another one that's set up to thump the jukeboxes. It seems like the guitars are the loud part but the drums are the exciting part- and the vocal isn't quite as exciting as the drums. Why? It feels a little like the vox are getting compressed and evened out- and while transient spark can get through a bit, the attack is so fast that the body of the voice can't. It's very much in 'just another instrument mode' and it's the drums that have midrange kick to them, so they come off as more compelling. And the guitars are real loud but the same as the vox- they sit there being loud instead of barking and snapping.

    studjo- well, this is promising. It feels a lot like double-vocals and this kinda gets in the way of me connecting with the singer- what I did with the doublevocals was comp them like they were takes of a single track, because I didn't want moments of AWESOME to get blurred out by a less inspired track also there. The music feels very competent but not very raucous- not raucous at all. Nothing's over the top, this is like a preppie band. It's super well put together but there's a placidness... I'm betting some of this is from very well managed compression? It's got that unmistakable quality about it- where raucuous nasty music has spikes and slashes and punches as you, this is one of the ones where no matter what the sound is, it bloops out in a tidy manner without taking your eye out. It's really hard to complain about this type of mix because when you go looking for any sound it's right there where you expect it to be. I do like things to be more obnoxious, though- or at least feel slightly out of control, hitting a bit too hard to be predictable. This ain't. Everything is in its place. Points for technical, and it didn't win my heart.

    SuicideNote- Sure enough, RAWWWWK- another one where it's all about the drama, as shown by thundering floortom and dramatic guitar notes and intense vocal. I'm sympathetic to that sort of thing for this song, it's got me headbanging slightly and I can feel the attitude throughout. I would turn the vox up even more (naturally, considering how excessive MY mix was) because I'd like the vocalist's attitude to be totally overwhelming and obliterating the song- because the song would put up a fight, it seems to have flags flying and a martial spirit, drummer flailing and a fine gnarl on the guitars. It gives the impression of being wild and raucous without actually being it, and everything is a bit like a fanfare. It's not as if the sounds are even all that great, but something about this taps into the spirit of the song for me, in a big way. Everything's trumpets and panache. I am pleased, and no way could you explain that by explaining the mix tools- it's more mysterious- how do you find a 'more fanfarelike' knob? Where's the 'triumphant' button? And yet this nails it. Maybe it's just me. But I liked, oh yes.

    tnelson494- Here we care a lot about the kick of the kick drum, not so much about getting an overall feel. There's a funny balance between the kick, snare and cymbals, it's like they're in radically different places, and everything else is similarly unexpected- guitars and synths are quite distant and spacious, bass seems to be supplemented by a transistor radio that hides behind the click of the kick... vocal is pretty mellow, no extra presence and attitude for you! When we have the extra vocal an octave down, it's closer and more present than the lead. WTF. I'm going to call this a 'start deciding what you consider important in the mix' mix, it's like it's trying to get control of some of the fundamental issues of modern mixing (like making drums come out right) but is too distracted by this to identify what's important to the song. That really didn't make it, for me. A fundamental bottom line thing for me as a listener is, if the main thing in the song- the SINGING- is doing anything of interest, I want to be wowed by it. Anytime a relatively uninspired backing vocal (OR EFFECT!) is suddenly louder than the impassioned lead vocal, I can tell instantly that the mixer needs more experience. In really extreme cases it's a guy who has never mixed for anybody but himself. Well, welcome to MiXiT- you're mixing for us now!

    Tonewheels- Whoa, big, compressed, zang! My god, this is a cement truck full of dishwashers going 90 miles an hour down a dirt road! I'm not going to have any gripes about 'too controlled' here! If anything it'll be too sloppy! I'm not thrilled about the vocal treatment, no precious. It's loud enough, but you're smoothing it out with that. If I put my lead vocal on top of this backing it would be kind of awesome, exactly because this backdrop is so crazy and excessive that I'd love to hear it set against a really 'straight' dry presentation of the lead vocal, LOUD AND CLEAR. Then it would be a super-direct human being raving and exulting over total madness. Seriously, this backing music is a wall of sound- it's kinda exciting, kinda ridiculous, we don't need the vocal ALSO to be ridiculous. I think this is actually a really cool, crazy take on the mix and what would make it click for me is if the leadvox was very 'straight' to contrast. Without that, it's a bit less compelling. But still- yow! It sounds like the best party ever

    VonRaddatz- Um- what? WHAT is the kick doing? I can't even describe it. Like a 'fwip fwip' quality. The kick and half the drums are in a time warp being simultaneously struck forwards, and backwards by antimatter drumsticks, causing a reality phase inversion... YIKES. And it's loud, it's fighting for attention with the lead vox. It's so distracting I can barely focus on anything else. Is this some kind of INSANE compression that's bringing up the swish of the stick before it hits the drum? If so, how can that be, when it's the kick? I give up man- this is messing with my head too bad. I shut off the track before it was quite done. Whatever you did, don't EVER do that *ROFL*

    Zooloop- AAAAAAA! It's insane compressor abuser hour! Actually this is hinting at being less distracting, perhaps because the vocal is strong and 'straight'- its normalcy helps, a lot. But the drums are weirding me out, it's like the cymbals swell up, then the attack, then they unswell. What on earth? Surely that is some out of control compression. A dead giveaway is that the cymbals sustain so hard that they fight the attacks and act like an 'air pad'. I always figure if it's not a musical thing it shouldn't fight the musical things. A lot of this isn't bad but the pumping of the overheads produces an effect that's pretty distracting- generally it's the hitting of the cymbal that matters, not the whooshing back up of the cymbal volume.

    Baeli- here because you used a dash instead of an underscore in the filename (as GOD intended!). Hey, gutsy drums right off! Nice clear space for stuff to happen in, strong and loud, with this funny trick of having drum accents bang in with extra verve. DAMN, you hooked the snare up with the second 'go to war' so nicely, this is just what I like. The actual sounds, none of them are exactly what I like, but the way the mix MOVES is very much what I crave. I'd love for you to share what you had in mind, because just counting plugins isn't going to explain that. Somehow you're making lots of space for the lead vocal, but it hooks into the music everywhere you look, and I'm very impressed. What's important to you? How do you build this sort of thing, what are you watching out for as you adjust it? Absolutely gets my vote as one of the three to discuss.

    Peeder- here because you totally ignored the naming convention Well, this is loud! I don't think in a bad way, I dig pounding drums. Nice how the keyboards are spacious to complement that. this is ALL about the keyboards, huh? The lead vocal seems to be powerful enough, though he seems a little calm, somehow... holy crap, mixing madness synthesizing NEW keyboards where none existed! I call shenanigans! This is actually pretty cool. It rocks, but it's hilariously infested by 80s keyboards Oh my god, we are mutating the guitars with pitch effects? As if they aren't being picked on enough this is HILARIOUS and kinda fun to listen to, and though it totally fails to be compelling and serious, I find I don't mind. If I was the band I'd ROFL and then do it over

    Normie- last by virtue of not only naming the file after the song when told not to, but also using the misspelling- the song isn't even named 'Senior'! It's Senor! Okay, so we're not especially loud, not mixed unusually strange, and we have a big reverb on the lead vocal. And we're using both vocals. Huh. Well, this isn't grabbing me by the throat. I think what's happening here is, we've got some predictable mix moves (like brightening cymbals until they're shiny) and what we're left with is not doing anything too SPECIFIC with regard to the song. It goes along, but if something pokes out like a cymbal it's just because it pokes out- no particular reason. It makes me ask the question- if you were going through and volume automating everything to make stuff jump out, WHAT do you think is supposed to jump out, musically? One of my answers to that question was, 'when the guy jumps up an octave and belts, "I would go to war for your daughter", that's one of the most important things, it's awesome'. Not that I volume automated this time, but I sure didn't bury that bit. I would adjust compression so that part stayed able to jump out and startle... so which bits in the song are supposed to grab your attention the hardest?

    And with that, I'm DONE! AHAHAHAHA! DONE! Now to post this and put on a stout crash helmet
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 2: All Mixes Discussed (ChrisJ thread)

    Wow.
    Chris.

    You are beyond fucking mental in the best way possible.
    I appreciate your critique a lot. I think it was very similar
    to my own critique of my own mix. I totally missed the
    vibe of the band too. Completely right, my first goal was
    to make in my opinion, a pretty poor recording my bitch.
    Stomp it down to where i knew exactly where everything
    was, and what it was doing.

    I just didn't take it to the next step.
    Which slipperman talks about.

    I think a skill i severely lack is automation.
    I automated the vocal a lot. But prob to the point where
    it sits in the mix in a very controlled way. And is boring.

    I need to re-introduce more excitement and surprises
    into my mix. Probably to ALL my mixing.
    Thank you.

    I haven't read all your comments to everyone yet,
    but i did read your comments to MicTayler. They interest me
    because we actually co-own the studio i work out of together.
    (Although he's living in melbourne, australia at the moment)
    We learnt this stuff together and the first band we ever
    played in was together. I find it almost amusing that you
    think my work is 'much more skilled' because i've always
    felt his was. And maybe that's why you like it more.

    He has a better ear for what works 'naturally' than me.
    Although admittedly, i love 'slick'. But i don't want to
    limit myself to that, or even have it as my main 'thing'.

    Thanks again chris. I've always had a lot of respect for you.
    "Art is the expression of imagination, not the reproduction of reality." - Henry Moore

    >> York St Recording Studios <<
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 2: All Mixes Discussed (ChrisJ thread)

    Peeder- here because you totally ignored the naming convention Well, this is loud! I don't think in a bad way, I dig pounding drums. Nice how the keyboards are spacious to complement that. this is ALL about the keyboards, huh? The lead vocal seems to be powerful enough, though he seems a little calm, somehow... holy crap, mixing madness synthesizing NEW keyboards where none existed! I call shenanigans! This is actually pretty cool. It rocks, but it's hilariously infested by 80s keyboards Oh my god, we are mutating the guitars with pitch effects? As if they aren't being picked on enough this is HILARIOUS and kinda fun to listen to, and though it totally fails to be compelling and serious, I find I don't mind. If I was the band I'd ROFL and then do it over
    Well I'm glad you "got" some of the inside jokes with the mix...the 80's thing etc. Except just a little less verb and far more lows and cleaner transients.

    If you pop open my PT session, you'll see that there is no shenanigans with either new keyboard parts or pitch shifting. There is a chorus pedal on one of the guitar parts and an Amplitube preset on one of the synths and violin. Tape delays on all guitars and synths.

    I did work quite a bit on achieving a great blend between the keys and guitar...to meld them into one big wall'o'sound. Since I thought the keyboards were recorded a lot better than the guitars, I featured them, and since there were about 300 guitar solos I tried to make a keyboard solo effectively out of the prechorus.

    Mostly I'm just revealing what's there and trying to demonstrate the harmonic structure of the arrangement. I.e. I'm "playing the band" as if it was a big pipe organ or something.

    Thanks for all your efforts in reviewing.
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 2 - All Mixes Discussed (ChrisJ thread)

    Go more crazy, do stuff that's a little more obnoxious. Everything is doing the right things, it's just inoffensive, too safe.
    I agree. Thanks Chris.
    "Yep there are delays and also an old 910 harmoniser on the snare on that album, with the feedback turned up and pitched down to give some length to the snare on BIB. Pretty standard trick in them olden days" - Mike Shipley
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 2 - All Mixes Discussed (ChrisJ thread)

    Dude!

    This is awesome. Thanks so much for putting all that time into giving such great responses to everyone. I like where you're coming from as well -- in terms of serving the song and keeping some of the attitude in rock n roll.

    You caught a couple things in my mix I wasn't even aware of ... maybe I do those things naturally/subconsciously? Or maybe I just got lucky? I dunno. Musicality and tonefulness are pretty major goals for me, sometimes to the detraction of a 'commercial' mix (which in your books is probably a good thing.) Either way, I'm glad you like it!
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 2 - All Mixes Discussed (ChrisJ thread)

    Princeton- Sounds kinda experimental, and I immediately don't want to hear any more when the lead vox is over a telephone.
    Hey thanks, experimental sounds good to me. No progress without experimentation, thatīs one thing I learned here.
    Voice over telephone - hmmm..... every mixer tells a story, right? My story "starts" over telephone (monologue: boyfriend - father) but...O.K. you probably donīt like mexican soaps .

    Anyway, thanks for the input.
    Shift happens.
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 2 - All Mixes Discussed (ChrisJ thread)

    Awww Hook, funny I always felt that way about you!!

    Maybe the fact that I mixed completely with digiIII plugs gave it that retro sound?

    Nice going Chrisj I really meant to spend more time listening and critiquing the mixes. Sadly the gods of the interweb have not been on my side. Doing this stuff from an internet cafe is not ideal..
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 2 - All Mixes Discussed (ChrisJ thread)

    Thanks for the critique Chris.

    Definitely agree with a lot of what you said - I think I missed the vibe of the track and after listening a couple of days later I didn't really dig it as much as I thought I might have at the time.

    As long as I had your head in an emotional vice though... hehe
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 2 - All Mixes Discussed (ChrisJ thread)

    maartenl945- Yikes, same deal I suspect! Actually, not so much. We have cruise control for verse 1, we have changes in intensity- for some reason, your drums can really kick in. I think it's because they're a bit spread out, they're not too pointy or too distorted. We've got that, against a really big backdrop of sustaining, reverby stuff, with the lead vox nicely set in front of the backdrop. I think the REALLY killer part of this mix is the drums- the way you're getting dynamics and ferocity out of the drums is just great, you can practically see the guy there moving as he beats the crap out of the kit, he explodes all over it and never loses that swing. Second big choice for the three picks, because I want to know more about how those drums work- they are doing seriously useful things in the mix, not just making neat sounds.
    Hey Chrisj, thanks for listening and the extended comments on all those mixes. Given your thread introduction and after reading the first line of your comment to my mix I thought "oh boy, gonna get thrashed here ..." But the rest is pretty encouraging. Glad you liked the drums. It's probably what I spent most time on. I'll wait with the drum secrets till discussion part II then ?
    The reverby stuff on the backdrop may have been a bit too much.

    musicdog- what the FUCK? Massive file damage. It's violently sputtering and making a strange buzz. Whatever you used, no worky- please tell us what the hell it is, because that's just fucked. Charles! The next generation file format is showing signs of strain!
    That's our new dutch encoding but the rest of the world is not ready yet.
    You probably still have the first (corrupted) file he posted. He posted an update later.

    Maarten
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 2 - All Mixes Discussed (ChrisJ thread)

    Voice over telephone - hmmm..... every mixer tells a story, right? My story "starts" over telephone (monologue: boyfriend - father) but...O.K. you probably donīt like mexican soaps
    Okay, this is a really good comeback! If that's what you were doing, then you're actually doing telephone RIGHT by making it take you somewhere cinematically. In that case, what's missing is committing to that concept in a big way- to exaggerate, I can tell you how I would have reacted to other treatments.

    If ALL the other instruments dropped out and it was nothing but telephone voice vocal really loud, I would've done a doubletake, I wouldn't be able to stand it for more than a verse, but I would have instantly got the idea.

    If it was loud telephone voice and SOME of the other instruments dropped out, ideally in such a way that the remaining ones were sort of stark and avant-garde, I'd still get the idea.

    If the entire band was through the telephone, I'd think "hmm, PJ Harvey's Highway 61 did this awesomely" and I'd expect to be bludgeoned by a massive wall of rock sound pretty soon for contrast. And I mean SOON, I'd get anxious if it didn't happen.

    If it's a normal mix and the lead vox is through the telephone, my first reaction isn't 'cinematic' unless I'm watching the video showing the guy on the phone (or the call-ee listening to it). Instead I'll think, yet another attempt to throw radical EQ just to be different. Also, if the sound isn't TRASHED I'll worry that maybe the whole vocal is going to be this way
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 2 - All Mixes Discussed (ChrisJ thread)

    I think I missed the vibe of the track ... As long as I had your head in an emotional vice though... hehe
    Well, that's just it- you really hit me with one mood the song could be in, but yeah, it misses other moods that are also there. To get a strong reaction AT ALL is a good thing, all you gotta do is be able to control it and have the judgement to know where to go with it! If I was that girl's dad I'd be shitting bricks, dude

    Other bits of the song could lift with a happier, joyous vibe. Even if you didn't do that, if you had the lull (with the violin) unexpectedly turn sweet and tender, you'd really be playing with fire- and I mean PRETTY and gentle, not just 'the lyrics turned tender, the sounds are still superdramatic'.

    Going too far in an EMOTIONAL direction is a good mistake to be making because it's showing what your range is. Can you also mix stuff sappy and wussy and yacht-rock?
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 2 - All Mixes Discussed (ChrisJ thread)

    Hey Chris,

    Not quite sure what to make of that reply (what are you asking exactly?) I completely agree with what you said about there being more contrast/moods available though. Listening back a few days later I was shaking my head wondering why I did what I did.

    I've been known to enjoy working on some sappy material but keep that low pro
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 2 - All Mixes Discussed (ChrisJ thread)

    Immanuel- we are arranging in mix. Hmmm. WHOA we're not in 2008 anymore! Abandon expectations for modern mix topology and re-appraise on its own terms. Okay... nothing is obnoxious, for starters. Thank you. But, the lead vocal isn't lacking in passion- he hasn't been smoothed off too much. Drums are small, tidy, appealing. Bass is really, really warm and fluid. Guitars do in fact have edge to them but they're set way back, not in your face... wow. Immanuel, I'm a dangerous critiquer this MIXIT and very bitchy and complaining, but you're winning me over sheerly by how NICE your mix sounds and how everything is just pleasing and appealing. You could do yacht rock with sounds like this and get away with it- I'm worried that it can't fly in 2008 and then I think, to heck with 2008 then! How are you mixing this, is it on an analog board? There's something very right and natural here even though it's seriously un-modern in character. Thank you for trying to make things sound NICE and appealing. It is out of style.
    Hi Chris. First of - thanks for sharing your thoughts and impressions with us. I know you do it just as much for your own sake, but it is still very nice to get these thought about comments.

    we are arranging in mix. Hmmm.
    Yeah well, I was too bugged with the drum intro and tried something very different. I think the idea would work if better executed.

    WHOA we're not in 2008 anymore! Abandon expectations for modern mix topology and re-appraise on its own terms.
    My mix is likely the least loud (shhpeaceful's mix isn't normalised. If it was, I think it would be louder than mine). This is the first time I mix other peoples stuff. It is the first time I mix drums. And it is the first time I mix something with this many tracks. So I went with the advice David Aurora once gave Cary - keep it simple. Also, I like the sound of a lot of old rock better than the contemporary rock sound. If I remember right, in one of the MMRSs Ardwark once said, that back in the days, studios where not loaded with compressors.

    Okay... nothing is obnoxious, for starters. Thank you.
    Thanks.

    But, the lead vocal isn't lacking in passion- he hasn't been smoothed off too much.
    I don't know, what the 'but' refers to? That things could be unobnoxious because they're polished to death? For vocals, I choose message over perfect (refering to my sig. here). Some things where sung better in take two, but it got disintegrated, when I tried to comb things - even if I took full sentences from the other take ... so I didn't. I cut away the silence and noise around his singing, and I damped one plosive ("HNND senor"). The take got a bit of verb with the widening set a bit towards narrow. That's it. No automation - no nothing.

    Drums are small, tidy, appealing. Bass is really, really warm and fluid. Guitars do in fact have edge to them but they're set way back, not in your face... wow. Immanuel, I'm a dangerous critiquer this MIXIT and very bitchy and complaining, but you're winning me over sheerly by how NICE your mix sounds and how everything is just pleasing and appealing. You could do yacht rock with sounds like this and get away with it- I'm worried that it can't fly in 2008 and then I think, to heck with 2008 then! How are you mixing this, is it on an analog board? There's something very right and natural here even though it's seriously un-modern in character. Thank you for trying to make things sound NICE and appealing. It is out of style


    Drums are small, tidy, appealing.
    I didn't want them all over. I even took the right overhead and panned it to around 2 o'clock before I turned the track into a stereo track. I hand removed snare and tom hits from the kick track. No gates where involved. An important part of the hat comes from the snare mic. As with everything else, if a track was silent for a longer period, I would shop off the silence. The drummer often ended parts with a cymbal, and I found it not accentuated enough, so I pushed those bits a bit. When lonely tom hits clashed with the snare, it would often be too much, so I lowered those tom hits. Apart from that, not much automation was used. I did take down the early tom part though to spare some energy for later. Snare, tom and kick got a bit of added attack with the SPL Transient Designer plug-in, and I think I took away a bit of sustain from the snare and kick (or was it snare and tom?). PsyQ (psychoacoustic equalizer) was used on the stereo OHs and each of the other drum tracks (and on nothing else). The tom and the kick got a little bass compression (one knob feature) from the PsyQ.


    Bass is really, really warm and fluid.
    I found that all three tracks had something useful. So I put up the condenser track (which I liked the most) and turned up the 57 till it's specific flavour was added and then turned up the di till it's specific flavour was added. After that I did nothing to the bass. I tried time aligning, but I didn't like the result and skipped it.


    Guitars do in fact have edge to them but they're set way back, not in your face... wow.
    Apart from doubling the "theam" lead and "theam rythm", only level adjustments and (fixed) panning of different guitar parts where done.


    Immanuel, I'm a dangerous critiquer this MIXIT and very bitchy and complaining, but you're winning me over sheerly by how NICE your mix sounds and how everything is just pleasing and appealing. You could do yacht rock with sounds like this and get away with it- I'm worried that it can't fly in 2008 and then I think, to heck with 2008 then! How are you mixing this, is it on an analog board? There's something very right and natural here even though it's seriously un-modern in character. Thank you for trying to make things sound NICE and appealing. It is out of style.
    It is a 100% digital mix. Over time, I have seen reports that Samplitude sums better than Cubase etc. and also reports that Scope sums better than Samplitude. The only other app, I ever worked with was a bit of Logic Gold 4.7, so I can not really say, if this holds true. I am sceptical however, since people are atleast working in 24 bit these days anyway. Samplitude runs 32 bit fp and Scope runs 32 bit integer. I did over all level adjustments and summing in Scope and automation in Samplitude. With 32bit fp ASIO2 drivers between the programs. Plug-ins are all from the Scope Platform running on the Sharc processors on the Sonic core (former Creamware) cards.

    My personal guess is, that it is the absence of parallel processing and limiting and the low amount of plug-ins used, that gives you the analog feel. No "analog warmers" where used. I remember a post by Bob Olhsson, where he wrote about an experience he once had with 16 track 2" tape. It made him vivid, because he suddenly realised how bad 24 track 2" sounded. He seamed very sceptical about the pleasing tape distortion hype. Also several times he has written about old preamps having excessive headroom, so they didn't go into clipping. Also, there once was a thread about analog distortion, where I think weedywet and otek argued, that it is not analog - but digital - that takes something away ... and that you can not add that something with plug-ins. So with the current trend of "analog warmers", I think it is interesting, that you find my mix with no such plug-ins to sound analog.

    One more thing: My "monitor system" (the total of my stereo and my room) is flawed in terms of stereo precision and bass translation and it is not really revealing. But it is good at two things. If there is drive in the song, my feet can't stop tapping, and it emphasizes little details in the emotional delivery of a vocal performance. I think those two things saved me from some potential fuck-ups. Today I started stocking up on wood. Tomorrow I will get a bunch of mineral wool and effectively kill the back wall in my almost square room. I think 12 inches should work wonders to kill those bass frequencies adding up from behind in and out of fase with the signal from the speakers. Right now it is just terrible, how much the bass level changes, when I move around in the room.
    Intellectually perfect only means there's nothing wrong. To me, overproduction means throwing away what's right in a herculean effort to achieve nothing wrong. (Bob Olhsson)
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 2 - All Mixes Discussed (ChrisJ thread)

    And what is Yacht-rock??
    Intellectually perfect only means there's nothing wrong. To me, overproduction means throwing away what's right in a herculean effort to achieve nothing wrong. (Bob Olhsson)
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 2 - All Mixes Discussed (ChrisJ thread)

    This is yacht rock!

    Listen, enjoy, keep the fire
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 2 - All Mixes Discussed (ChrisJ thread)



    Gear is, after all, the Least Significant Bit
    -otek

    nothing worse than being BOTH pretentious AND ignorant!
    -mousdrvr

    Me, I always pan the hihat to the left and mix drummer's perspective... Makes it a lot easier to play air drums. -otek
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 2 - All Mixes Discussed (ChrisJ thread)

    I just saw all ten chapter. I find some of them funny.

    I would have expected the opposite from the name - some quite punkish stuff. So I had to ask.

    Forgot ... there is a delay on the theam lead guitar.
    Intellectually perfect only means there's nothing wrong. To me, overproduction means throwing away what's right in a herculean effort to achieve nothing wrong. (Bob Olhsson)
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 2 - All Mixes Discussed (ChrisJ thread)

    AngelBomb- HEY LOUD! Sure have drum impact, that's kinda cool though a bit bludgeoning. They're kinda hyped and pointy. This is really big and dramatic, though I'm not caring that much about the plight of the guy singing.
    Yeah, I heard this as a big loud dirty rock tune sooooo.....thats what i started to do. I got sick and never made it to finishing the guitars and barely touched the vocals. It really is only half the mix I intended to do, oh well, hopefully there will be a next time!

    Thanks for commenting!
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  19. #19
    Bassist/struggling pizza boy! Thinks Ringo's wife is a famous Classical Composer
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 2 - All Mixes Discussed (ChrisJ thread)

    Dino- Sort of like baby Dye! Oh my god. This is cute and really obnoxious (hey, actually _I_ am being cute and really obnoxious. sorry!). I can't believe how weak and quiet this is considering how many Dye tricks are being used, up to and including the parallel distorted bass. hey man, the distorted bass isn't MATCHING anything. Dye does it to MATCH the distortion levels of stuff like drums (Slipperman makes his match the distorto of the guitars) but this isn't matching anything, it's just poking out and buzzing. Way too much vocal FX make them into a wash. The snare pokes out all by itself without anything to go along with it- you could have the bass distort doing that but it's not, it's too saturated and too quiet relative to the snare. These things are not just done in isolation, they have functional purpose. Make stuff work together more, not be isolated Dye-ian sounds.
    Chris, wow a lot of work....I did them all at once, but you've got a LOT more detail...I thought mine took some time. Anyway...couple of things...
    I am assuming you did not open the session file...and if you didn't, you have some great ears. I did use a few of the tricks from MiLaR...okay more than a few, but somewhat as a learning experience.....so my lesson learned from this.....and from listening to every other mix and reading all of the comments...is that mixing is a creative process where choices need to be deliberately made and tied together. Elements are great, but they must have a purpose and balance within the song. Being able to "Get" a sound is one thing "Using" it appropriately is another. Not doing this results in a swift belittling...especially around here.
    In short...I have some sounds like Charles (maybe)...Wooohooo!!! - - - They are all out of whack...Doh!!

    BTW...the comedic value of your comments are priceless...I about fell out of my chair not only at mine, but many others. Nicely played!!
    Last edited by Dino; January 12th, 2008 at 05:12 AM.
    We don't like their sound, and guitar music is on the way out. --Decca Recording Company, on rejecting the Beatles in 1962


  20. #20
    Ducked in here to avoid the paparazzi Slippy's codpiece...ewwww.
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 2 - All Mixes Discussed (ChrisJ thread)

    Here we care a lot about the kick of the kick drum, not so much about getting an overall feel. There's a funny balance between the kick, snare and cymbals, it's like they're in radically different places, and everything else is similarly unexpected- guitars and synths are quite distant and spacious, bass seems to be supplemented by a transistor radio that hides behind the click of the kick... vocal is pretty mellow, no extra presence and attitude for you! When we have the extra vocal an octave down, it's closer and more present than the lead. WTF. I'm going to call this a 'start deciding what you consider important in the mix' mix, it's like it's trying to get control of some of the fundamental issues of modern mixing (like making drums come out right) but is too distracted by this to identify what's important to the song. That really didn't make it, for me. A fundamental bottom line thing for me as a listener is, if the main thing in the song- the SINGING- is doing anything of interest, I want to be wowed by it. Anytime a relatively uninspired backing vocal (OR EFFECT!) is suddenly louder than the impassioned lead vocal, I can tell instantly that the mixer needs more experience. In really extreme cases it's a guy who has never mixed for anybody but himself. Well, welcome to MiXiT- you're mixing for us now
    You are da man .Got my band to mess with and thats pretty much it and those guys seem more interested in beer, then getting some good stuff to tape. I got like three songs that i get to keep remixing over and over and i'm pretty much the only one interested in how they end up.
    Not sure exactly what ya ment by the drums being in
    radically different places
    ? Do you mean i got em panned wierd or just that i got the dynamics and volume wrong on them?
    Thanks for your advice on picking something to focus on. I try to get the vocal so ya can here it good and ride it when there's some emotion but never realy thought about it like you put it, to actually focus in on something.
    Thanks for taking the time to critique my mix.

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