Thread: Suggested Avg RMS Level of Mixes

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  1. #1
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 3a - Mix for Mixerman Q&A

    Are we supposed to Master this thing, or psuedo master it, or just send levels that would be expected for normal client delivery prior to mastering?
    Last edited by Charles Dye; April 30th, 2008 at 05:15 PM.
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 3a - Mix for Mixerman Q&A

    Are we supposed to Master this thing, or psuedo master it, or just send levels that would be expected for normal client delivery prior to mastering?

    Something I have been wondering myself.

    Jay
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 3a - Mix for Mixerman Q&A

    As for the mastering/limiting question:

    I think this should be as before, a "mix" event.

    Not a pseudo-mastering/limiting one.

    Surely here of all places we don't have to play that game?

    Been searching hi and lo and can't find it...I'm definitely sure there was a post from Charles somewhen at the former mixit-events referring to the mastering-question... he said something like 'anyone will surely recognize if a mix is pseudo-mastered and polished that way, we're all smarter than that - this event is about mixing, not your mastering-abilities'...correct me please if this was quoted wrong.

    The limiting thing is another one IMO...if someone feels she/he has to crush the shit out of it, because it treats the tune and is part of the sound which one's trying to achieve...why not ?

    Best,

    Marco.
    Last edited by Charles Dye; April 30th, 2008 at 05:16 PM.
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 3a - Mix for Mixerman Q&A

    I'd like to suggest you submit your mixes with an approximate avg rms -11 dB.

    As stated above, this is a mixing event + not a mastering event.

    And we all know that the loudest mix is definitely not the best sounding.
    Last edited by Charles Dye; April 30th, 2008 at 05:18 PM.
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 3a - Mix for Mixerman Q&A

    ...guess some will be hectic now....erm..including me ....so no brickwall orgy as I've planned....people, watch that tmu stickers all over this place...
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  6. #6
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 3a - Mix for Mixerman Q&A

    There's no way I'm compressing my lovely mix like that.

    Either turn the volume up while listening to my mix or shove up your head where the sun never shines!
    'Tis ain't no Ricky fucking Martn song.

    Mac
    .
    Mac

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  7. #7
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 3a - Mix for Mixerman Q&A

    Morning,

    ...guess some will be hectic now....erm..including me ....so no brickwall orgy as I've planned....people, watch that tmu stickers all over this place...
    ...blubb....

    ...yeah, right....you were thinking:"Is this meant ironically....?"....ahem....cough...sure, that was my intention....flush....

    Maybe I shouldn't post at 5 a.m. after sleepness nights and offer you some dumbass comments which don't make sense at all....was reading this now and was wondering what that guy wanted to tell us before realizing that that guy is actually me...

    Average rms, hm ? Ruin My Sound....

    Got it, bring back the limiters, throw away the tmu stickers, use the tmd ones....and take Charles' comment ironically, unlike me he knew what he was writing.

    Goin' to get some sleep,

    nice day for you all,

    Marco.
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 3a - Mix for Mixerman Q&A

    There's no way I'm compressing my lovely mix like that.

    Either turn the volume up while listening to my mix or shove up your head where the sun never shines!
    'Tis ain't no Ricky fucking Martn song.
    Ruin My Sound....

    Got it, bring back the limiters, throw away the tmu stickers, use the tmd ones....and take Charles' comment ironically, unlike me he knew what he was writing.
    uhmm... i think ur confused.

    just what are you guyz talking about?

    you think an avg rms of -11 dB is heavily compressed?

    compared to what?
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 3a - Mix for Mixerman Q&A

    btw... it may appear i was recommending that people should submit mixes at that level.

    i'm not.

    i'm simply making a suggestion for the loudest level of your mix.

    but submit your mix @ any level you want. it's totally your call.

    it's just a suggestion.
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  10. #10
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 3a - Mix for Mixerman Q&A

    uhmm... i think ur confused.

    you think an avg rms of -11 dB is heavily compressed?
    For this style of music: yes. But that's just me and I grow up back in the seventies
    Doesn't mean that I not might be confused, though.

    Mac
    .
    Last edited by MacGregor; April 29th, 2008 at 03:54 PM. Reason: Forgot something
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  11. #11
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 3a - Mix for Mixerman Q&A

    Hmmm..... so confused now...

    I have a mix that sits at -13 rms for a "psuedo mastered" version and I have a mix that is -21 RMS that is "unmastered" but it looks like the volume war is happening with this now?

    The -13 RMS mix actually has dynamics to boot too...

    What to do, what to do.

    Doc
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  12. #12
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 3a - Mix for Mixerman Q&A

    Well, part of the problem is that many programs actually measure avg rms incorrectly with a -3 dB offset.

    So, an avg rms or -11 will actually look like -14 dB, for example.

    A simple way to confirm this is to take a modern pop or rock record + measure it. If the software says, it's avg rms is -8 or -9 dB, then you have the -3 dB offset.

    If it says, -5 or -6 dB, then your software is measuring it the correct way.

    Hope this helps.

    btw IntelDoc... it looks like your software may have the -3 dB offset.
    Last edited by Charles Dye; April 30th, 2008 at 08:17 AM.
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  13. #13
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 3a - Mix for Mixerman Q&A

    To add some further clarity, by modern standards an avg rms of -11 dB is considered very conservative. Not crushed.

    It is also about the avg rms of records from around 1990. Today's records have an avg rms of -5 or -6 dB, which is pretty friggin loud.



    Avg RMS Calibration

    To also help you calibrate your avg rms software I've measured the MM's mp3 rough mix of "Aren't You Proud" (aka "622") that was posted here.

    It's avg rms is -10.05 dB.

    Here's the file. Measure it with your software. If you get an avg rms of -13.05 dB, your software is using the incorrect method to measure avg rms.


    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by Charles Dye; April 30th, 2008 at 08:18 AM.
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  14. #14
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 3a - Mix for Mixerman Q&A

    ....just woke up....jawn.....mjam....so, what's goin' on here...let's see:

    uhmm... i think ur confused.

    just what are you guyz talking about?

    you think an avg rms of -11 dB is heavily compressed?

    compared to what?
    ....grzzzlbrwwb...make my day....referring to the feeling in my head I'm totally confused, right ...referring to what's happening right here now....TRIPLE TROUBLE!.....oh man...what have we done...

    An avg rms of -11 dB is around what the Red Hot Chili Peppers did at Dani California for example...to my tired ears it sounds fairly compressed. But there are a lot more tunes out there that are more squashed for sure, we hear them everyday. Compared to what ? To the dynamic music that was there 20 years ago I think...yeah, I know, times have changed.

    So people: If you want to make it loud, refer to my post referring to Charles -11dB avg rms thing and don't take that meant ironically. If you don't want to make it that loud, refer to my 2nd post and take Charles -11dB avg rms thing not ironically. If you want to do anything else, do it and don't care about whatever. As I reread this I'm pretty sure that'll take away any confusion ...

    Time for breakfast (6 p.m. here),

    cu later,

    Marco.
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  15. #15
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 3a - Mix for Mixerman Q&A

    I even didn't take a shower yet....

    Well, part of the problem is that many programs actually measure avg rms incorrectly with a -3 dB offset.

    So, an avg rms or -11 will actually look like -14 dB, for example.

    A simple way to confirm this is to take a modern pop or rock record + measure it. If the software says, it's avg rms is -8 or -9 dB, then you have the -3 dB offset.

    If it says, -5 or -6 dB, then your software is measuring it the correct way.

    Hope this helps.

    btw IntelDoc... it looks like your software may have the -3 dB offset.
    ....f*++'# u& wavelab, it definitely has the offset...so Dani California is considered to be a modern rock tune, I guess...ok, it's not that hard crushed referring to the average rms then...no, wait - IT IS! Always had problems with the + and - thing....now we've got total confusion

    Somebody bring me a drink...

    cheers!
    Last edited by Charles Dye; April 30th, 2008 at 08:19 AM. Reason: calculate unability... (fixing offset mistake -cdye)
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  16. #16
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 3a - Mix for Mixerman Q&A

    An avg rms of -11 dB is around what the Red Hot Chili Peppers did at Dani California for example...
    Nope. You're mistaken + off by 3 dB.

    Have another drink + keep reading the rest of the posts.
    Last edited by Charles Dye; April 30th, 2008 at 08:20 AM.
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  17. #17
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 3a - Mix for Mixerman Q&A

    Nope. You're mistaken + off by 3 dB.

    Have another drink + keep reading the rest of the posts.
    If anyone should think now that I'm a hopeless alcohol addicted man, I'm not! Sleepless nights were because of sitting in front of the pc-screen.....Charles you're right, I've calculated it back and forwards again while drinking my 2nd glass of superb orangejuice.
    Last edited by Charles Dye; April 30th, 2008 at 08:20 AM. Reason: (fixing offset -cdye)
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  18. #18
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 3a - Mix for Mixerman Q&A

    This may be a beginner question but I was wondering what you guys are using to measure RMS?

    When I mix I do what I think sounds good as long as nothing is clipping. I usually put the Waves PAZ analyzer on my master just to make sure stuff isn't clipping. Can I use that?

    I use DP but I also have Logic and PT.

    thanks jay
  19. #19
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 3a - Mix for Mixerman Q&A

    ups what have I done????


    a simple screw your L2 would be just perfect but ... anyway let's see what Mixerman is saying after that we can fight the levels. Actually I should know pretty soon since I leave town in few hours

    submission starts tomorrow nope?

    have fun guys

    Jo
  20. #20
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 3a - Mix for Mixerman Q&A

    .

    btw IntelDoc... it looks like your software may have the -3 dB offset.
    If you mean "Pro Tools" then maybe, but I meter with my Benchmark ADC-1 as well as the PAZ meter and the peak levels all seem to be the same throughout. When I send off to master I set it usually for a -7 peak and 021 RMS to allow for some levels to be played with during mastering.

    I am curious to see though. Levels seem to match up too when I bring into Wavelab from time to time to re-analyze final levels.

    Doc
    Last edited by Charles Dye; April 30th, 2008 at 08:21 AM. Reason: (fixing offset -cdye)
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