Thread: MiX iT! 3d - Discuss It: General

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  1. #261
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 3d - Discuss It: General

    Angelbomb: Wow, that vocal entrance was a surprise. Dry, subtle, pleasing and different. Muting the beginning drums was kinda cool. Not a fan of the heavy drum sound though when they come in at 1:15. It seems a lil un-natural. Cymbals and hats seem a lil harsh- perhaps overly squashed for my liking. Makes the drummer sound kind of sloppy somehow. Nice balance of the keys, vox, bass and guitars. Overall I enjoyed.
    Thanks! I'm glad you enjoyed overall. I think the issue with the drums sounding sloppy may actually be a plugin delay issue that I didn't catch until well after I was done with this. However, I wanted them to sound big and brash when they came in and I'm pretty happy with the tone of them, just not that timing crap. Thanks again for the review.
    Josh
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  2. #262
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 3d - Discuss It: General

    Here are some of my first impressions. I started working from the back to the front (reviewing those who posted last first). Time permitting, I will try to do some more this weekend. I have been slammed at work and have had a hectic travel schedule.

    622Dubnick: I like the intimate dry vocals in the beginning. Interesting & creative use of delay at 0:26 & 0:58. I like the panning of the instruments. Not a fan of the extra guitar distortion. I like where the B3 is sitting. Did you add guitar parts @ 2:25 or am I forgetting something? Not sure this added anything to the song. The Rhodes has a lovely tone at the end. I will have to check out your notes to see if you eq’d this or used any other treatment.
    Thanks for the review. I didn't add any guitar parts - that's the Rhodes virtually re-amped with the Line6 Gearbox plug. I really, really regret not spending more time dialing in a less irritating sound - I think I was afraid if I spent too much time tweaking the distorted sound for the Rhodes, I'd talk myself out of employing the effect altogether. Also, it pops out insanely during the bridge thing and for some reason I didn't notice it as much till after I already posted the mix. That would have been easy to just bring down a few db for that section, but I didn't do it - doh! Anyhow, thanks for the kind words and critique.
    You can hear some of my work at http://www.thedubnicks.com - feedback appreciated!

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  3. #263
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 3d - Discuss It: General

    Whatever the treatment that came in at 2:31 for that section was a little odd for me. What was it?
    Wow, this is old and nobody gives a rat's ass by now, but I just found this and hate to leave things undone. That sound ramping in to that last section was just a quick volume ramp of the GTR. Probly overdid it a touch, but I like the feel of it. Not for everyone I guess.
  4. #264
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 3d - Discuss It: General

    Hi everyone,

    I'm referring to my post some weeks ago. Finally switched over to broadband now, so is here is the continuation of my attempt to tell you how your mixes translate over here on my hifi-system (satellite/sub-woofer).

    Since I was writing before thinking back then as I almost always do, I forgot that the emotional impact the mixes had on me (and this is absolutely subjective since I guess that the opinions on that point can differ) maybe are worth to mention.

    So I've added EIP's to my comments.

    Emotional
    Impact
    Points

    Don't know if that's of any worth, but anyway. The scale is from 0 to 10 points where zero means no emotional impact to me and 10 means near to emotional climax...ahem.

    Since I didn't use this fantastic invention at my first post, the EIP's for those comments which were included back then are included in this one as well.

    Comments may seem a bit harsh - again, this is not intended, just due to the fact that I wrote short notes while listening to the mixes.



    Alanml

    EIP: 5


    Amater

    EIP: 4


    Angelbomb

    Vocs get a bit lost.

    EIP: 5


    annex2

    The bass lacks low-end, the Vox get a bit lost at the "Goodbye, daydream..."-part.

    EIP: 6


    ashleysmith

    EIP: 5


    Audioboy

    EIP: 5


    baeli

    EIP: 6


    BillyB

    The bass is a bit lost (low-end), kick is outsticking.

    EIP: 6


    billygimp

    EIP: 4


    bleen

    Translates well over here.

    EIP: 6


    Boogiewithstu

    The kick gets very dominant from the 1st chorus on, bass gets lost.

    EIP: 4


    Booman

    Toms are very boomy.

    EIP: 6


    Calvin

    EIP: 6


    CaptainHook

    EIP: 7


    Cheech

    Translates well over here.

    EIP: 6


    chicken8r

    EIP: 4


    chrisj

    EIP: 5


    Chrisjmp

    Tanslates well over here.

    EIP: 7


    CurtZHP

    Bass misses low-end.

    EIP: 6


    Danbee

    EIP: 4


    Daunt

    Bass low-end is missing, the vox seem a bit distant from the rest sometimes.

    EIP: 6


    DaveC

    Bass gets a bit lost freq-wise, drums are a bit restrained.

    EIP: 6


    Demontague

    The bass is a bit too boomy, vox seem to be a bit distant from the rest, overall a bit muddy sounding (may intentional).

    EIP: 6


    dikledoux

    EIP: 6


    Dino

    Bass + vox are a lot upfront, guitars/rhodes and B3 get lost.

    EIP: 4


    Dirty Digital

    Bass gets a bit lost.

    EIP: 7


    doylemusic

    EIP: 4


    Dubnick

    EIP: 6


    eclektik

    Sounds high-mid-emphasized throughout, low-end is missing.

    EIP: 4


    ExtremeMixing

    Some beef missing @ low-end/low-mids, the snare dominates.

    EIP: 4


    fizbin

    EIP: 5


    FredSanford

    Toms sound boomy, bass gets a bit lost until the 1st chorus, guitars are a bit dominant.

    EIP: 5


    Geewholeeo

    The guitars + the B3 are sounding a bit lost.

    EIP: 6


    Gitarted

    EIP: 6


    glitchfactor

    EIP: 6


    Greysound

    Snare + overheads sounding a bit muddy over here, bass gets a bit lost.

    EIP: 5


    guyomo

    The vocs getting a tad buried from the 1st chorus on.

    EIP: 5


    Harmonrye

    EIP: 5


    HipHopDaddy

    Bass + kick are a bit lost volume-wise.

    EIP: 5


    icombs

    Kick's bit too upfront in contrast to the bass-guitar, kick's got a lot of low-end decay, whole sounds a bit penned up.

    EIP: 4


    Indiesynthpunk

    EIP: 5


    Inteldoc

    EIP: 6


    Jarini

    Translates well over here.

    EIP: 8


    jaygro

    EIP: 5


    joerogers1970

    EIP: 6


    Kenny Gioia

    EIP: 6


    Kgderrick

    EIP: 7


    Kmarkb8017

    The bass sounds a bit restrained over here, vox too upfront at the bridge.

    EIP: 5


    Knastratt

    EIP: 5


    KpHayes

    EIP: 5


    Likelystory

    Vox bit too loud.

    EIP: 6


    maartenl945

    EIP: 5


    MacGregor

    Kick is boomy and lot upfront, the bass + guitars get a bit lost.

    EIP: 5


    Magicchord

    The Rhodes buries the other elements freq.-wise.

    EIP: 5


    melocogo

    EIP: 5


    MikeyMTC

    Toms are boomy, kick's bit too much upfront,
    guitars get a bit lost.

    EIP: 6


    Mixerman

    Sounds totally fucked up over here, no idea what you've done to that one. Listen carefully to the public german advice for such cases:

    Make sure there's a tube....


    working.



    That's it.













    Just kiddin'. Translates well over here.

    EIP: 10


    Mixtressgina

    Drums get lost, the instruments getting somewhat buried, the vocals seem to be disconnected from the rest.

    EIP: 5


    MKZ

    Some low-end is missing, sounds midrange-emphasized at some points (maybe intentional).

    EIP: 7


    molly

    EIP: 6


    mortendk

    EIP: 6


    mykllynyrd

    Low-end @ kick and bass is missing.

    EIP: 6


    nobby

    The vox are getting shortly lost pre 1st chorus, the bass's missing some low-end.

    EIP: 5


    normandamon

    The guitars seem to be a bit too upfront.

    EIP: 6


    Nudub

    Nudub, there was no way to open the *.m4a files you've attached to your posts. If I'm remembering it right, you've posted two of them due to problems with zip-compression. Both of them didn't work here, sorry!


    Numbthump

    EIP: 6


    outrendeep

    EIP: 6


    Padje

    Vocals are very loud, drums'n bass get lost.

    EIP: 5


    pimp-x

    EIP: 7


    Princeton

    Bass-guitar sounds a bit muddy, toms boomy, the vocs are sticking out at the end.

    EIP: 5


    prschmitt

    Snare, overheads + room-mics get lost, the kick's got some low-end freq.-boom decay, sounds a bit penned in.

    EIP: 4


    Prunelle

    The bass is a bit boomy, buries the rest at some points.

    EIP: 5


    QueziRider

    Snare + kick seem to be bit too loud, bass + guitars getting lost, toms sounding boomy

    EIP: 5


    revmen

    Sounds very hi-mid emphasized over here, low-end/low-mids are missing, vox are loud until the last chorus.

    EIP: 4


    Seawell

    EIP: 5


    7th angel

    Kick + bass are very dominant, boomy @ low-end, the guits get lost, drums + bass do bury the vox.

    EIP: 4


    Skwaidu

    Kick + snare seem to be a bit too upfront.

    EIP: 5


    southboundloco

    Guitars get a tad lost.

    EIP: 5


    Starfucker

    Sounds treble-missing-like over here (maybe intentional).

    EIP: 6


    Studjo

    Kick is boomy - has a lot of low end, drums are very dominating, bass is hot low-endy though it gets a bit lost and so do the guitars.

    EIP: 5


    Superloud

    It isn't. Except for the drums (loud, not superloud), bass-guitar gets lost.

    EIP: 5


    Takk

    Drums are very upfront, vocs sounding thin (maybe intentional).

    EIP: 4


    Tamasdragon

    The bass gets lost, somehow there's the lowend missing in the mix.

    EIP: 6


    Teetoleevio

    Kick's got too much low-end, snare + guitars sound somewhat beef-less (due to compression ?), overall treble is a bit missing.

    EIP: 4


    Tnelson 494

    Vocs sound a bit mid-boomy and too loud.

    EIP: 4


    uncleozzy

    Kick + bass lack low-end.

    EIP: 6


    vonRaddatz

    Translates well over here.

    EIP: 7


    Wintergod

    Vocs sound a bit thin freq.-wise, bass gets a bit lost.

    EIP: 6


    Xiangtao

    The bass-guitar gets a bit lost from the 1st chorus on.

    EIP: 5


    zooloop

    Translates well over here.

    EIP: 5






    That's it - hope, it's somewhat helpful.

    Best wishes,

    Marco.
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  5. #265
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 3d - Discuss It: General

    If ANY of you people had problems along the lines having to take heroic measures to make something work with these tracks, or if your mix sounds hugely different than the pack in terms of balance and quality, then STOP EVERTHING YOU'RE DOING NOW.
    What did I learn this time by comparing my mix to others? That I like my mix better than anyone else's.
    dik
    I haven't been reading this forum, and I just stumbled upon this gem.

    Genius.

    I feel the same way. I like my mix even more than mixerman's because i made the song sound the way I wanted to hear it.

    I never submitted my mix. My machine died. If you care, you can listen to it here:

    http://www.jdubdrums.com/jonmix.m4a

    toodles.
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  6. #266
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 3d - Discuss It: General

    I never submitted my mix. My machine died. If you care, you can listen to it here:

    http://www.jdubdrums.com/jonmix.m4a
    Please go ahead + post it in the "post it" thread.
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  7. #267
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 3d - Discuss It: General

    Many Thanks to Tannoy for the exceptional effort. Speaking for myself, I may not agree with some listener's comments, just as your vision would be completely different than mine for the song. I am none the less grateful for the opportunity.

    Looking forward to more. Well done Womb vets.

    BWS
    BoogieWithStu
  8. #268
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 3d - Discuss It: General

    Just had the weirdest experience. I downloaded my own mix again from the "post-it" page and the mix seems to drop out from mono to stereo every now and again, especially between 2:25 and 2:50which of course, isn't how it was originally posted. Can these files possibly become corrupt over time? Doesn't seem so, but kinda weirded me out. Hope it didn't always sound that way. Didn't think it did. But it sure is disturbing. Ah well.
  9. #269
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 3d - Discuss It: General

    Yeah... all d ta on the int rnet b com s co r pt ov r t me. D n't yo kn w t at?
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  10. #270
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 3d - Discuss It: General

    Yeah... all d ta on the int rnet b com s co r pt ov r t me. D n't yo kn w t at?
    The real question is how long did you spend typing out your post?
  11. #271
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 3d - Discuss It: General

    engineers + ocd are a great combo
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  12. #272
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 3d - Discuss It: General

    Ha dy H r H r, Fel as.
  13. #273
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 3d - Discuss It: General

    engineers + ocd are a great combo
    Couldn't have said it any better.
    "Here ain't there..." - Unfcknblvbl, June 17th, 2010
  14. #274
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 3d - Discuss It: General

    Figured out the problem. Not even going to tell you guys what it was. Too embarrassing. Late night+drinking+faulty-audio-wiring+posting=idiocy.
  15. #275
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 3d - Discuss It: General

    Figured out the problem. Not even going to tell you guys what it was. Too embarrassing. Late night+drinking+faulty-audio-wiring+posting=idiocy.
    nice of you to join us... we all knew this the second you posted.
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  16. #276
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 3d - Discuss It: General

    Kgderrick

    EIP: 7
    Thanks for the listen!

    k
    Music, you see, is sort of like screwing — you don't think about the past or the future and you don't think about what makes the wheels turn. You're inside the creative space, you're in the moment, and so there are no thoughts of manipulation. - Robert Margouleff

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  17. #277
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    Clown Re: MiX iT! 3d - Discuss It: General

    I'm not sure a scorecard number is anything like a useful critique. I'm gonna critique your critique there, just because it sums up everything I hate most about typical AE critiques

    Your crit: -1



    No seriously... I just did that to be obnoxious, for laughs, but this is why I'm not entirely joking.

    We already know that you have an opinion, and an ability to like some things more than others. What we don't know is WHY. Particularly when you label your number 'emotional involvement points', it cries out for some, any explanation of how involvement works, and this is how you can help people. Giving a number doesn't do shit to help people. Specifying the CAUSE of something that takes you out of the mix is talking about the symptom rather than the disease...

    What you say over and over again is about stuff getting 'lost' or the bass being 'restrained', or things being 'boomy'. Occasionally you talk about something being too 'upfront'. This is all negative-space critique: you never say directly, "Everything has to feel like it has a presence to it, like it matters. The bass has to be a force of nature man! But it can't be a big sloppy wash, the thing has to have muscle, and it has to fit together." Yet this is apparently what you're wanting to hear. SAY that, if that's what you want.

    If you only say 'gets a 3, it's not really what I was looking for' you're not a critiquer, you're a rack jobber. If we can't understand why what we wanted to do with the mix was WRONG why the fuck should we change it just for you?

    Your job as a critiquer is to be able to explain to your hapless victim why their wishes were WRONG. If their opinion is just as good as yours, you should not be critiquing. You don't have to be able to mix to your own standards- you can fail miserably to produce anything good yourself- but if you can't jump up a level and explain why something is awesome or horrible in a way that is convincing and teaches something...

    It's like being able to say "When the guitar comes in on Radiohead's 'Creep' it's too loud". Well, no shit- that's a purely mechanical criticism. But is it awesome? If so, why is it awesome? You could talk about tension and release, you could talk about the jarring nature of a clashing sound texture breaking in on the listener or go on a riff about how uniformity does not equal goodness, but in the final analysis that guitar is STILL too loud but awesome and it's your problem to explain why that works. Because just saying 'it's awesome, mix all the guitars like that from now on' is abject fail

    There, now you've got two crits, one for your mix (which was cool but too balanced and correct) and one for your critiques (which aren't critiques for the reasons I've given). Not only that, you've garnered way more attention for the critique thing than you did for the actual mix, because it hit a sore spot with me, stuff that drives me fucking crazy whenever people do it, which is mostly.

    I passionately encourage all of you to pay closer attention to, and try to explain, WHY SOMETHING WORKS rather than simply citing mechanical faults. We're all supposed to be good enough to mostly stay away from gross mix problems, and if we're not it ain't worth our time to address- not here. We're hanging with Grammy winners, old warhorses, superstars past and present- the depth of genius and insight on this forum should be a real wake-up call.

    Do enough homework that you don't need to be told 'you mistakenly made the guitars 12 db too hot'- get serious about finding the connection to the song, wherever you find it- and be ready to view other people's work on the same level. Not mechanically, but "where do I go to find this person's song in their mix, did I like where they took me, does it seem right or seem compelling or seem like something I want?"

    I hope I end up seeing a lot more mixes in future MILARs where I'm like "wtf? I totally don't get this, but I can't stop listening to it. It's like some sort of nasty candy or drinking antifreeze- help, they're making me like this! Medic!"

    Because everytime that happens, my understanding grows a little- which is always good, even when it's painful. And sometimes when it's the most painful it's the most useful...
  18. #278
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 3d - Discuss It: General

    great post Chris
    visit me @ www.studjo.ch
  19. #279
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 3d - Discuss It: General

    Chris,

    I feared that commenting in the way I did would bring me to hell instantly.....proved to be true.

    A serious thing first:

    EIP are Emotional Impact Points, not Emotional Involvement Points. Since I applied patent for this term, I'm sure you understand that I have to sue you for misusing it.



    And now to the real serious stuff:

    Referring to your post I think there's a lot of missunderstanding goin' on about what the heck I was thinking to do the comments in that way. The reason was that there is a vast amount of mixes to comment. My intentional idea was to find a way / kind of scheme to do the comments in a manner which makes it possible to compare the comments from different participants in order to reveal potentional issues in the mixes soundwise.

    It all came up when Dik did a post some weeks ago about the question which way of commenting would actually make sense. That made me think about it and I've posted my thoughts about it here. Please do me a favor and read that post so I don't have to write the whole stuff again here. Above that I'm sure that it'll help to clear things up a lot.

    So, that's the idea behind it. I've mentioned that at my 1st commenting-post and tried to explain there that it's an attempt for a new way of commenting mixes. Since I started that way I wanted to finish it that way either. I saw your extensive critique-thread later on and realized that I fuckin' forgot to mention something about the emotional impact the mixes had on me. So I decided to include that strange scale....remember: in order to find a way for commenting a huge amount of mixes in a way that it won't take a tremendous amount of time and which makes it possible to compare similar comments from other participants (if there would've been some similar comments) to find potentional issues soundwise and to have an idea if the mix touched the listener emotional-wise.

    As you've already noticed, we've got an totally different approach. I really liked the way you did your critiques and I'm sure that it helped. But the term critique itself shows that we see some things different - I would never critique a mix, I'm talking about commenting - those two are different to me. If I critique, I'd tell you things like "I don't know what that friggin' kind of reverb should add to the vox, no idea - it simply adds nothin' to the song and this song was definitely not intended to be treated that way!" (This is ment to be exaggerated). For me this is very subjective and doesn't take into account that there's no 'golden way' in mixing - 100 mixers, 100 visions, 100 different creative decisions / approaches to treat a song in order to paint the final picture.

    For me, I don't think I'm able to critique in that way. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate any kind of comment as mentioned before and I'm sure that your critiques helped - it's just not my approach.

    It could be that I'm totally wrong here with my way and that participants are expecting to get comments in the manner you did it. I'd like to encourage anybody to post her/his opinion about this so we all may have a clue about what kind of comments to write at the next MiXiT-Event.

    I'm gonna quote from your original post:

    We're all supposed to be good enough to mostly stay away from gross mix problems, and if we're not it ain't worth our time to address- not here. We're hanging with Grammy winners, old warhorses, superstars past and present- the depth of genius and insight on this forum should be a real wake-up call.

    Chris, it could be that I do missunderstand this paragraph. If your intention was to tell that we shouldn't address problems in posted mixes which obviously have gross problems, because there are too many pros here so this isn't the right place for it and anyone who participates should at least have a kind of skill that greater problems do not figure - I couldn't disagree more. From my point of view the MiXiT-Events are learning events, not competitions. And how and where should a newbie learn something, if not at events like these ?

    So, I hope everything's cool.

    ....and that I could clear things up a bit.

    Best,

    Marco.
    Last edited by tannoy; June 9th, 2008 at 02:00 AM.
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  20. #280
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    Default Re: MiX iT! 3d - Discuss It: General

    No, we coo- I'm not in any way mad at you or anything like that- glad you're not ticked at me too much- and in fact I don't expect most people to critique (as you describe it). I know you're not doing that and wasn't sure YOU knew it.

    I'm just saying that people commenting/scorecarding without critiquing is no use to me... so it's hard for me to see what the point is of doing it.

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