Thread: MiX iT! 3d - Discuss It: Kenny Gioia

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  1. #1
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    Default MiX iT! 3d - Discuss It: Kenny Gioia

    Here's my mix.

    Mix notes coming soon to this post. Please check back.

    In the meantime, you may discuss it below.

    Thanks.


    NOTE: This is Mix #6, which is an updated mix to the previous Mix #5. It’s just an edit. The mixes are the same.
    .

    Mix Notes:

    Let me start off by saying that I don't know how to give mix notes. I was the worst assistant in the history of assistants. I guess now that it's pretty clear that I'll never be a mix assistant again, I can openly say that I never took mix notes. I use to recall big mixers mixes by ear. I had a general idea of what they usually use and then I would tweak the mix to match the original. I guess that kinda honed my mixing skills in retrospect. Although I assure you that that was not the intended purpose. I am. By nature. Lazy.

    Sticking with my lazidazical nature, I decided to steal this outline from a fellow mixer. I looked over Tannoy's notes and decided that was not the best idea. Read above. Lazy. So I'm stealing Pimp-X's notes. At least his outline. My notes are gonna be different.

    How I approach a mix

    I usually approach a mix like a doctor should. “At first, do no harm.” I put up all the faders and just listen. Try to get a feel for the Producer’s vision. Usually I don’t hear one and I decide to create one. This song was very different however. It was tracked the way Mixerman envisioned it. In fact, he tied our hands in that respect. That’s not a bad thing. Handing a song off to a mixer can be a very nerve-racking experience. Having been burned a few times, I now try to tie his/her hands as much as possible. Not sonically, but creatively.

    But this mix is also different in that many people are going to mix it. So I felt keeping true to MM’s vision would have been boring for me and the listener. This mix was also different in that there was no financial gain for doing the best mix. So even though the best possible presentation and approach for this mix would have been minimalistic, I decided to throw that out the window. So I decided to get creative.

    The saying says “At first, do no harm.” I did all the harm towards the end.


    What was the setup?

    My setup (in case you are living under a rock) is Pro Tools HD. All mixed in the box. I have a Folcrom summing mixer but I chose not to use it. I told you I was lazy. None of the tracks IMHO required anything surgical so I didn’t use any of my hardware units. Just plugins.


    The Drums

    As with most of mixes, I have a Digi EQ and Massey CT4 compressor on every single drum track. I don’t necessarily have the EQs doing anything but they’re always there to keep the tracks in phase.

    Kick - I didn’t really like the kick track. I EQed it for a minute or two and then I gave up. The drummer was very dynamic and I felt a lot of the kicks were getting lost completely. So I replaced it with 3 kick samples. I usually use 3 and then balance their levels for the song.

    Snare - The snare was a different story. It sounded great. Well tuned, well miked and very well played. I never would have considered adding a sample to this sound if it wasn’t a Mixit event. I knew everyone would have this snare sound so I wanted some juxtaposition for educational purposes. It’s not on the hits in the verses. Just the Choruses and Bridges. The real snare got some top end EQ and some meat. I also added a good amount of CT4 compression and the Sonnox Trans Mod to boost the crack.

    Toms - I liked the tom sound for this tune. Not much attack but it worked. But to be Kenny is to add that attack back in. Break out the samples. I also compressed and trans modded the toms.

    Overheads - I didn’t do much to the Overheads. They sounded fine. A touch of top to make the cymbals prettier but not much else.

    Room - The Stereo Room sounded great. It was the foundation of the kit. Everything else was laid on top of it. I added a liittle compression but it sounded compressed already. I also used the trans mod here to remove some of the attack. The less attack, the louder you can make them.

    Mono Room - I didn’t use much of this. I left it in with slight compression but it wasn’t doing anything that wasn’t already being done.

    All the drums got a heaping of Waves IR-1 reverb. I used a recording studio IR for it. Sounds like a nice room. Not huge.

    The Bass

    The bass sounded pretty good as is. I did raise the level (using Gain plugin) of the amp track to match the DI. I need those faders to match so I know what I’m doing. In other words, a 50/50 balance should be happening when the faders are equal. I added a SansAmp track being sent from the DI only. Just to let it growl more. I prefer that over adding mid eq.


    The Guitars

    The guitars sounded great to me. I added a touch of EQ but changed my mind. They were perfect. Just a touch of vocal reverb. Panning delay and extra vocal reverb was added to the High guitars.

    I also panned very quickly the clean guitar in the first verse. I had to turn the first entrance off because it didn’t have a place for me.

    The Rhodes

    It’s hard to adjust EQ on a rhodes. I added some upper midrange but a rhodes doesn’t really change much with EQ. I did slap a really cool Echoboy preset on there to give it some interesting space.

    The B3

    The B3 sounded great too so no EQ or Compression was added. I did have to split it out to a few different tracks to make the levels match from section to section. A teaspoon of vocal reverb was added too.

    The Tamborine

    The tamborine sounded very natural so I decided not to mess with it. Just found a panning area that was unused and sent it there. A little drum reverb.

    The Vocal

    The vocal sounded like a record right away. I did most of the mixing with no EQ or Compression but added a touch of Digi EQ in the top end and some light Massey CT4 at the end of the mix. I did ride the vocal a bunch but it wasn’t a nightmare.

    I automated alot of the effects on the vocal. It started out completely dry because I love dry vocals. The pre-chorus got a thick stereo chorus and then I slowly added more reverb (Waves IR-1 Lexicon 480) as the song moves along. I also added a long delay in key spots that was automated. The delay was a Digi delay with Filterbank filters to thin on each repeat.

    The vocal was in tune naturally so AT took the day off.

    The 2 Buss

    Oh. No Kenny mix is complete without a serious amount of 2 buss processing. Started with Channelstrip for compression. I wish I could find a replacement for this plugin but I can’t find one. It just gives me glue without collapsing. The Waves SSL is next. This guy does collapse but it has that “SSL sound.” It pushes everything to the sides in a very “radio” way. To avoid the collapse I use it in Auto mode and just a bit of compression. Then comes TCMasterX. Can’t live without this guy. Multiband compression just makes all the other stuff easier. Contains the bass. Less de-essing. It doesn’t fix everything but I can work less. Did I mention I was lazy?

    The Extras

    Oh. The extras. Couldn’t wait. Yes. I added some additional production. Couldn’t help it. It’s what I do. I would have done more (more bells and bk vox) but I sensed that the Artist might not prefer it. Not really sure.

    I did add some Glock bells to match that guitar line. Just a Reason Orchestra preset. I love bells.

    I copied some vocals in the pre-chorus and pasted them as answers to the original. I shifted them to make them stereo even though it was one voice.

    Later on I added some answer panning delays that were distorted using the Sansamp plugin.

    I also added an obscene amount of snare reverb on the snare hit on the word “crack”. Kinda cheesy. I know. It was gonna be worse. I swear.

    Let us not forget the reverse cymbals. You can’t have too many of them. :wink:

    I also edited the end because I thought a shorter ending made more sense.

    Typing stuff out is hard. Thanks.

    Enjoy.

    -Kenny Gioia
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Kenny Gioia; May 8th, 2008 at 04:09 PM.
  2. #2
    Frustrated Chick Rock singer...now doing jazz standards poorly! Swedish Evangelical...Bjorn again Christian!
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    Default Re: My Mix (It 3)

    Sorry, I couldn't follow procedure.
    Click Here


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  3. #3
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    Default Re: My Mix (It 3)

    Samples kenny?

    I like some of the panning stuff on the guitar.
    Good solution to not making it sound too heavy on one side.
    Made for some nice space also. Liked it first time i heard it,
    not the second. High school attention span here.

    I like some of the vocal echos, but the ones where it
    happens twice in a row could have just been once for me.
    Preference thing. As with most everything.

    I laughed when i heard the run down bit at the end of first
    chorus as i pictured you saying "fuck it, i'll add whatever
    i want!". Nice.

    Not sure about the arrangement decision to have most
    of the song repeat after the ending to make it 5 minutes
    but hey, we get to hear it twice yeah? :P
    "Art is the expression of imagination, not the reproduction of reality." - Henry Moore

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    Default Re: My Mix (It 3)


    Not sure about the arrangement decision to have most
    of the song repeat after the ending to make it 5 minutes
    but hey, we get to hear it twice yeah? :P
    That was a mistake. I copied from one to another and it doubled.
  5. #5
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    Default Re: My Mix (It 3)

    That was a mistake.
    Yeah i figured, just thought i'd yank ya chain while
    pointing it out.
    "Art is the expression of imagination, not the reproduction of reality." - Henry Moore

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  6. #6
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    Default Re: My Mix (It 3)

    Yeah i figured, just thought i'd yank ya chain while
    pointing it out.
    Listening to your mix right now.

    It sounds great. I love the overall color.

    Is this ITB? I would think not. It has a real vibe to it.

    I really love the Toms. Great job.
  7. #7
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    Default Re: My Mix (It 3)

    My mix has samples pretty much everywhere.

    I purposely went for a less raw approach.

    Added Bells and Delay.

    Also repeated the Whisper Vocals and Distorted other repeats.

    Had to lose that Intro Guitar and cut the Outro in half.

    I think that's it.
  8. #8
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    Default Re: My Mix (It 3)

    Listening to your mix right now.

    It sounds great. I love the overall color.

    Is this ITB? I would think not. It has a real vibe to it.

    I really love the Toms. Great job.
    Thanks!
    I did nothing to the toms but send them to my
    drum busses.

    Yep, ITB but i mix through SSL comp and eq.
    I think i mentioned this to you once before in pm
    land when we talked about the dangerous 2-bus.

    I just got it back today (d2b) planning to try it again
    to see my thoughts but got called by a friend asking
    to borrow it for an album tomorrow.

    I'm too nice. :P

    You can download my PT session from the thread
    if you care. Mostly eq3 and massey comp from
    memory.

    Yeah, i noticed pretty much everything you did on first
    listen. Helps to know the track from mixing myself.
    I liked you did something different and your 'own'
    as 180 mixes of slightly different eq/comp/levels/etc
    will probably blur into one for me.
    "Art is the expression of imagination, not the reproduction of reality." - Henry Moore

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  9. #9
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    Default Re: My Mix (It 3)

    Oh yeah, do we get to see your PT session Kenny?
    "Art is the expression of imagination, not the reproduction of reality." - Henry Moore

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    Default Re: My Mix (It 3)

    My mix has samples pretty much everywhere.
    What kick samp did you use?
    One of your own?

    I like it's punchy without being too 'toppy' or big in the
    bottom.
    "Art is the expression of imagination, not the reproduction of reality." - Henry Moore

    >> York St Recording Studios <<
  11. #11
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    Default Re: My Mix (It 3)

    I'm so glad if Kenny was using a kickdrum sample. Kick+Snare combination was so good... I was waiting your rebellious PT session file , but not anymore...
  12. #12
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    Default Re: My Mix (It 3)

    Hey Kenny,

    Mix is sonically as great as I was expecting. Some nice bells and whistles. The reverse cym is a bit cheesy tho' just my opinion. I wouldn't have augmented those drums like you did, but I know that's your thing.

    Musically it sounds like you sucked all the life out of it performance wise. It seems to crawl along now, but that's me.

    The only place where the tinkering works for me is the "when I breathe.." sections.

    My 2p. Feel free to tear me a new one when I post mine.

    All the best,

    Paulie.
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    Default Re: My Mix (It 3)

    Hi Kenny,

    I would like to hear your mix but I can't. Am I deaf ? No. Can't open the file here....tried it with the nero embedded 'wave-editor' which worked fine for all the other mixes and with Quicktime as well, but both can't open the file. Thought it might be a file-corruption problem that happened during the download but 2nd try delivered the same result.

    So....

    Did you autobytetune the file or does it include bit-replacing ?



    No, serious....any idea ? Anyone had a similar problem with that one ? Which application do you use to listen to it ?

    Thanks,

    all the best,

    Marco.
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    Default Re: My Mix (It 3)

    Sue! Sue! Sue!!



    Cool mix.
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  15. #15
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    Default Re: My Mix (It 3)

    Disclaimer: I'm hoping that by responding to this thread that I won't be seen as condoning Kenny's Wild West Look at ME tactics.



    Like the use of verb and echo to heighten the drama and get more impact outta those parts.

    Not crazy about the bells or the kick and snare sound.

    Both of these points come from a perspective of "do they help suck me into the song" rather than a pure sonic perspective.

    dik
  16. #16
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    Default Re: My Mix (It 3)

    Hey Kenny,

    Mix is sonically as great as I was expecting. Some nice bells and whistles. The reverse cym is a bit cheesy tho' just my opinion. I wouldn't have augmented those drums like you did, but I know that's your thing.

    Musically it sounds like you sucked all the life out of it performance wise. It seems to crawl along now, but that's me.

    The only place where the tinkering works for me is the "when I breathe.." sections.

    My 2p. Feel free to tear me a new one when I post mine.

    All the best,

    Paulie.
    I don't disagree. I knew that most people could this mix up and make it work. I love CaptainHook's mix better than mine.

    My purpose was to bring something different to this event.

    I do like my Kick sound better but I think MM's snare was perfect. The Toms too.

    I just wanted to do something different for the sake of different.

    I think I accomplished that. Maybe.
  17. #17
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    Default Re: My Mix (It 3)

    Hi Kenny,

    I would like to hear your mix but I can't. Am I deaf ? No. Can't open the file here....tried it with the nero embedded 'wave-editor' which worked fine for all the other mixes and with Quicktime as well, but both can't open the file. Thought it might be a file-corruption problem that happened during the download but 2nd try delivered the same result.

    So....

    Did you autobytetune the file or does it include bit-replacing ?



    No, serious....any idea ? Anyone had a similar problem with that one ? Which application do you use to listen to it ?

    Thanks,

    all the best,

    Marco.
    I had a bad edit when I posted it. It was an AAC file. I didn't have the AIFF file with me so I couldn't edit it. So I turned it into a movie, edited it in Quicktime and renamed the extension. Had a feeling some might have trouble with it.

    Anyway. I re-edited it from the original now.

    Try it again.

    Click Here
  18. #18
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    Default Re: My Mix (It 3)

    Disclaimer: I'm hoping that by responding to this thread that I won't be seen as condoning Kenny's Wild West Look at ME tactics.
    Too late.


    Like the use of verb and echo to heighten the drama and get more impact outta those parts.

    Not crazy about the bells or the kick and snare sound.

    Both of these points come from a perspective of "do they help suck me into the song" rather than a pure sonic perspective.

    dik
    I agree. The less bells and whistles the better for this song.

    Keep in mind, nobody would ever hire me to mix this type of song. And if they did, they'd want a hell of a lot more than what I did.

    Thanks.
  19. #19
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    Default Re: My Mix (It 3)

    I just wanted to do something different for the sake of different.
    I figured that was the intention. Especially on first listening, I found some of the effects to be distracting rather than enhancing to the song, but it was nice to hear them anyway.

    I did like the echoes on the 2 bridges a lot, and also the verb on the 'crack' snare (what exactly was that - settings and plug-wise? I usually spend ages when that sort of effect is required, and it usually ends up 'adequate' rather than 'just right', which yours was).

    I enjoyed hearing this treatment of the song, thanks.
  20. #20
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    Default Re: My Mix (It 3)

    It's just the snare going thru a really big reverb.

    Waves IR-1 with the "Stairwell" setting which is the longest there is.

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