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Old May 4th, 2008, 12:23 AM
tannoy tannoy is offline
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Default MiX iT! 3d - To comment or not to comment...

Hi all,

I’ve read dik’s post (http://thewombforums.com/showpost.ph...5&postcount=92) and it made me deeply thinking about what to tell you about your mixes...

The point from where I’m looking at this is : What would I like to know about my mix that could actually help me to improve it ? Is it my personal approach / creativity in terms of using effects, sample replacement, reverse using of parts of the song, decision for this or that plugin or whatever I did to it ? Dik was pointing out the fact, that he likes his mix best. Why is that ? I believe that all of us do like our own mixes best regarding the creative treatment we did to it – it’s the way we would like to hear it, a representation of the imagination that’s in our heads while listening to the raw tracks.

Mixing is art. Sounds a bit pathetic, but I really feel like we’re watching at finally appr. 200 pictures which were made by different artists who all had heard about the sad story of the deer and wanted to capture that in their paintings. None of the paintings will match to another. Every painter will focus on different things. I think one has to respect every painter’s approach. And I guess, if I would be one of them, I would like my picture best – it’s the way I see my vision best presented on the canvas.

I’ve made a decision: I won’t tell you what I think about your representation, it’s the way you see it, that’s totally ok and I’m fine with that.


What would I like to hear ? For me the most important part is : How is my mix translating on a different system. Is there something in it, that is annoying you – where you have the feeling “...I guess this was not a creative decision, this could have happened due to bad monitoring situation or bad room treatment or whatever.” And I would like to hear on which kind of system you’re listening to it, e.g. cans, car stereo, pc-speakers, mid-size hifi-system, full-blown hifi-system, nearfields, soffit mounted main monitors....

I guess most here don’t have the ideal monitoring-situation...at least I don’t have it. There are and I guess will be posts where participants are talking about the sonic impression of the mix and pointing equal things out, which some found somewhat annoying and others found to sound really great.

The thought behind all of this the following:

I’m thinking about posting my comments to your mixes in a kind of form, which includes

- Audio System at which I’ve listened to your mixes

- Stick outs
- frequency-wise
- loudness-wise

- Hidden
- frequency-wise
- loudness-wise


If some more would like to do it in that manner, there’ll may be the possibility after discussing or even while it is still going on to copy/paste the comments to a text-file on your pc, maybe format the comments in whatever way you prefer and having a list and a comparison about how the mixes translate on different kind of systems to get an overview of issues that might need correction. Maybe this is a way beneath the in-deep going featured mixes threads for anyone to improve their own mixes.

This is just a suggestion. It could be that all the things I wrote above are totally crap.

I would like to know what you think about the idea, may it be that you have suggestions or may it be that you’re thinking this is never gonna work.

And maybe you would like to post what's your opinion on that topic. From your pov, what would you like to be commented ?

Best,

Marco.
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Last edited by tannoy; May 4th, 2008 at 01:21 PM. Reason: sounded a bit harsh + reprimanding...maybe still does....hope not....english = 2nd language ;-)
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Old May 4th, 2008, 10:08 PM
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dikledoux dikledoux is offline
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Default Re: MiX iT! 3d - To comment or not to comment...

Awesome!!! This is the kind of thing I was really hoping to incite - a more lively thought process about this event overall and how we can get MORE out of it beyond a sentence or two of critique for each song. Honestly I believe there are some levels of value that people will get from the process:
- some will benefit from just having a volume of other work to compare against so they can learn without being TOLD what someone else liked or didn't
- some will use the bajillion little comments and go hunting for trees to trim instead of paying attention to the overall forest
- some will find ways to gather SPECIFIC information that will help them move forward - as witnessed in this thread
- some will find ways to present the song in a new light - like ChrisJ and give us ALL something to think about. A fresh perspective

I think your attempts at organizing the process of evaluation is admirable but it won't be easy and I definitely don't know if it'll work - but good on ya.

As far as your concerns about how YOUR mix translates to other systems... On my system, your mix sounds a bit veiled, muffled. If I bump the highs just a notch, the mix really livens up. Beyond that, there's not as much impact from the kick drum as I'd like to hear... but that may be just a personal taste thing - I like big butts and I cannot lie.

I also think you did a good job of keeping the guitar up front and aggressive during the interlude - tho the bass kind of steals some sonic space while he's playing that C farther up on the neck - a thing that caused me to automate the EQ for the bass on that part only.

Other than that - the thing seems to translate fine over here and I think you did a fine job of getting the song across as played. IMO, if someone heard your mix of the song as their first exposure, they'd be likely to dig the song.

But there's that "aren't you proud" vocal thing at the very end that showed up and an errant tamborine rattle that you missed (or left in on purpose) that's a bit distracting and appears as mistakes.

Hope that helps,

dik
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Old May 5th, 2008, 12:46 AM
tannoy tannoy is offline
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Default Re: MiX iT! 3d - To comment or not to comment...

Hey Dik,

glad that you like the idea. It ain't easy to do the comments the way I've planned. I realized this evening while preparing my post for the discussion thread that some may have made creative sonic decisions (referring to loudness / frequency) which others may find kind out of context. I think there's a blank landscape where the listener might sees an invader - but only the mixer has a map for this area and can decide if it's an issue or not.

Regarding my mix - thanks a lot for your comments! The delayed tambourine was intentional. I thought that it would fit to the image of the deer feeling safe - but something dangerous is going to happen. The added 'aren't you proud' phrase at the very end sounds worse on headphones as I had to experience. Referring to the comments I've read so far, some like this addings, some don't. Btw, on what kind of system did you listen to it ?

Don't get me wrong now : I would like to take your comments on the tambourine / added vox part as an example for what I've mentioned in my post. I'm sure that others have used similar elements for expression in their mixes - be it a delay, reversed sounds, whatever. For me exactly these kind of parts are the creative approach that I was to referring to (for sure the sonically aspect is a creative thing also). Decisions that have been made to present the song according to how the whole scene comes up to mind. As I've mentioned, I won't give comments on these elements. It's not that I don't like to get some - I appreciate that and for sure I could return the favour and could give back some as well. But the thing is that those comments won't make me change my decision. I could imagine mine referring to creative decisions of other participants wouldn't make change their mind about them either.

I guess there's just one exception to this:

If i'd mix for a client and the tune is not mine. In that case - if the client dislikes some elements, I would throw them overboard.

Actually I thought of mentioning just things that really translate kind of annoying on the system the listener's using. And it could absolutely be that those comments are not longer than 4 or 5 sentences...maybe even just one if everything sits well. I think it maybe is too late to start with a structured way of commenting for this event, since many already have posted theirs. And above that, we have to see if this way seems ok for the participants or if the freestyle-commenting-style is preferred.

Best wishes,

Marco
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Old May 5th, 2008, 01:16 PM
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Default Re: MiX iT! 3d - To comment or not to comment...

I think you both have really valid points!, but how do you propose we comments on this many mixes?, it would take forever to get indepth comment to all mixes, with this many a mix. Cause as it is now everybody is posting their mixes and some are commenting some are not, and some are discussing each others mixes in the midst of other peoples comments and so on and so forth. For me im having a hard time keeping up with my own comments and people who have commented to me!, and your right if you have to listen this many mixes, all you have time for is 2-3 lines of comments and I for one would love to get a good indepth critic so I have change to get my point across.
But I think that we would have to rethink the hole concept of this mix it workshop!, and have like 10 people(could be more or less) at a time mixing a song, and then people could comment on ALL 10 song for example!?.
What I mean is, have 6 songs ready for a year then people could sign up for each of the 6 songs to mixed this year.
Then song 1 would be january/february, song 2 marts/april bla bla, and then have less peolple mixning at a time to insure better comments and critic...
This is just a thought that just came to mind while I read your posts, have no idea if it is even doable(spelling).

Good points both
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Old May 5th, 2008, 06:33 PM
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Default Re: MiX iT! 3d - To comment or not to comment...

I think that the discussion part is going to be a lot harder than the mix itself.

I've listened to about 40 so far and posted comments on about 25. I'm finding that my comments are only one or two lines outlining things that I just didn't like rather than asking questions and/or trying to figure out what the mixers actual process was.

It's also tough as you have both the seasoned pro's along with the dabblers (I'm in that category) and for my money, you want to critique the pros and help the other folks.

Looking forward to putting in the overtime to provide feedback to everyone (keeping in mind that opinions are like assholes and...)
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Old May 5th, 2008, 07:51 PM
uncleozzy uncleozzy is offline
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Default Re: MiX iT! 3d - To comment or not to comment...

Quote:
Originally Posted by joerogers1970 View Post
I think that the discussion part is going to be a lot harder than the mix itself.
[...]
It's also tough as you have both the seasoned pro's along with the dabblers (I'm in that category) and for my money, you want to critique the pros and help the other folks.
Agreed. I'm in the dabbler camp myself, so I really don't know what to say about these mixes. Most of them--because the raw tracks were so good--are sonically fine, and translate well enough. There are plenty of decisions I don't agree with (stereo imaging on some mixes, relative wet/dry treatments), but there aren't too many where I'd say, "this sounds wrong."

There are definitely mixes that stand out and, for me, in this song it's the lead-in to the last chorus where I know a mixer nailed it or didn't (spoiler: I didn't ). The folks who nailed the emotional impact know who they are; all I can do is reinforce that.

I've listened to (at least) the high points of most of the mixes, and I really don't know where to even start.
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