A NEW TYPE OF TUBE GUITAR AMPLIFIER

[gonzo-x]

just discovered this, wanted to know if anybody knew anything about it.....


A NEW TYPE OF TUBE GUITAR AMPLIFIER

(my apologies if this has been covered before)

GAGA-50-- Advantages: All-tube, 5 pounds, 50 watts


lighter and smaller than typical tube amps & lighter than comparably powered transistorized amps

no audio output transformer or its limitations and distortions

freedom to use any number or combination of octal output tubes

widely adjustable output tube distortion vs output volume level

immediate recovery from overdrive; touch-responsive output tube distortion

drives any load and sustains dead shorts or total disconnects at full power

automatic bias and automatic idle / standby of any number or combination of output tubes

lower operating temperature, greatly extended tube lifetimes (expected)

increased reliability and stability, improved amplitude and phase accuracy

more perfect coupling of output tubes to speaker (i.e., no parasitics or saturation)

more tube-like operation of output tubes (i.e., lower current, higher impedance)

triode-like characteristics presented to speakers, even from pentodes

advanced, fully regulated, switching power supplies

no heavy power transformers, magnetics or choke filters

world power ready: plug and play anywhere

powerful, agile, innovative: brings true tone closer

full power over unmatched, wide frequency response

top-quality parts, USA made, high-end audio pedigree, experienced designers







http://www.milbert.com/guitar

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/sho...1&postcount=42

[dwoz]

Looks promising.


dwoz

[gonzo-x]

DAVID BERNING’S ZOTL

http://www.positive-feedback.com/pfb...ucted.7n5.html

(3RD TOPIC DOWN)

[Damage, Inc.]

Some of the things they say are pure speculation, like the tube life. Haven't they tested it before they go shooting their mouths off about it? They talk a good game, but there is no 'everything to everyone' in amp design. I predict either the weight will be the biggest advantage, or it will sound like complete shit.

Do I sound bitter? After a few years in retail and hearing spiels like this all the time from vendors, I'll reserve enthusiasm until I hear it for myself. Is anyone going to NAMM who can take a look?

[G. Hoffman]

From what I can tell (I haven't spent much time looking at the specs), it's just a transformerless power amp.

This is not a new idea.

I can't remember the name of the guy who came up with it, but it has been around since the 40's or 50's. (I've got a article about it in one of my tube amp design books at home, I'll try to find it.) The last ones I remember seeing commercially were the Airline amp in case things. Those, if I remember correctly, also don't have a power transformer.


Gabriel

[John Eppstein]

Interesting.

I'll believe it when I see it.

Some of the claims are hard to believe, especially the claim that it can use 6V6 tubes and put out rated power, which is beyond the tube's maximum dissipation.

[G. Hoffman]

In fact, almost everything about that amp (except for the switching power supply, which to my knowledge has never been used in a guitar amp - more on that later) is discussed in one of Kevin O'Connor's (KOC) The Ultimate Tone books. He didn't invent the transformerless output thing (The Futterman amp, by the way), but he talks about it, and the variable power with full output tube distortion is his Power Scaling idea (well, it looks like it), which he has done a LOT of work on. None of it exactly new in concept, but no one had done it before KOC. His reasoning was to duplicate some of EVH's "brown" sound without using a Variac, which wreaks your tubes by running the heaters too cold.

I don't like the idea of a transformerless output for a rock amp, though. The output transformer is a big part of the sound of an amp.

The other concern I would have (this is, of course, without trying it) is that regulated power supplies (and a switching power supply is in effect a hyper regulated power supply) tend to make rather sterile sounding amps. I know a couple guys who have tried it with simple linear regulated power supplies, and they have all been dissatisfied with the sound. The voltage sag you get with an amp is a really big part of the sound. Look at the Mesa Dual Rectifier amps - you can switch between a solid state and a tube rectifier. And you can absolutely hear the difference from the different amounts of sag. Then again, higher gain amps amps tend to benefit from the lower sag of a solid state rectifier - maybe some guys would like the hyper linear PS thing.

I love the sag on my amp, so I don't think it's for me; but who knows, maybe I'm wrong!

Also, from the little CAD drawing of the layout, it looks as though they mounted the tube sockets on the circuit board. This is a sure fire way to lower the durability of an amp. It's not that there is anything wrong with using a circuit board - I'm thinking pretty seriously of using one for my amp when I rebuild it in the next few months - but when you mount the tube sockets to the board, you subject it to a lot of heat and mechanical stress that circuit boards just don't handle well. All the semiconductors required for the switching power supply mean that they really do need to use a circuit board, but they should have used jumpers to the sockets. It would have driven the weight up a bit, I guess, but it would still have been the right design.


Gabriel

[gonzo-x]

Some of the things they say are pure speculation, like the tube life

i don't believe that's speculation at all.
it can be measured.

haven't they tested it before they go shooting their mouths off about it?

of course they have, did you not read the article in depth, and find the answers to your own questions first?

Do I sound bitter?

of course. you knew that in advance.
don't be bitter.
be open minded, wait til it's out, and then we'll trash it together!!

it's just a transformerless power amp

nope.
i guess you didn't dig into this very deeply either.



More information on the technology:
http://davidberning.com/products/qz
References to the Patents provided.

[David Aurora]

"until now, this was the only way to get juice from an orange....."

what can i say.... most of my favourite amps dont have those "features", yet they all sound better than the sound samples i just listened to (which weren't horrendous by the way, but not exciting either).

im sure somebody out there will love it, but i think theyre going to find that a lot of the "flaws" they are correcting are actually things people like about their amps.

[G. Hoffman]

Originally Posted by David Aurora

im sure somebody out there will love it, but i think theyre going to find that a lot of the "flaws" they are correcting are actually things people like about their amps.

You said that so much more succinctly than I did. I really need an editor.


Gabriel

[dwoz]

All I'm going by, with what little I have to go on, is that on the face of it, these things sound a lot like the Walter Woods amps for bass, which are zealously worshipped by many bass players, particularly upright players. Small, light (switching PS), don't know about the output coupling...I don't think WW amps have toobs.... but the general notion of a small, light, super clean amp that blows the same tone that you shove into it's mouth, is appealing to many.

dwoz

[David Aurora]

Originally Posted by G. Hoffman

You said that so much more succinctly than I did. I really need an editor.


Gabriel

when you talk as much shit as i do, once in a while youre sure to make some sense

Originally Posted by dwoz

All I'm going by, with what little I have to go on, is that on the face of it, these things sound a lot like the Walter Woods amps for bass, which are zealously worshipped by many bass players, particularly upright players. Small, light (switching PS), don't know about the output coupling...I don't think WW amps have toobs.... but the general notion of a small, light, super clean amp that blows the same tone that you shove into it's mouth, is appealing to many.

dwoz

i think the point being missed though is that for most guitarists, the amp is PART of the sound. so super clean, what-goes-in-is-what-comes-out type amps arent really of any use to a lot of us. the only guys i can think of who would really dig this kind of thing would be the ones who get their tones out of those disgusting all in one multi-fx pedals. MAYBE a couple country guys, but lets face it, there are already piles of great amps for country out there so it would probably only get their business on the weight aspect

[John Eppstein]

Originally Posted by dwoz

All I'm going by, with what little I have to go on, is that on the face of it, these things sound a lot like the Walter Woods amps for bass, which are zealously worshipped by many bass players, particularly upright players. Small, light (switching PS), don't know about the output coupling...I don't think WW amps have toobs.... but the general notion of a small, light, super clean amp that blows the same tone that you shove into it's mouth, is appealing to many.

dwoz

Mostly bass players and pedal steel players.....

[dwoz]

and Stick players.

dwoz

[G. Hoffman]

That's the thing. They spend a fair bit of time talking about how you can get power tube overdrive and all that, but who they SHOULD be marketing it to is bass players and jazz players. Those are the people who could really get into what this amp seems to be offering.

Then again, there are a fair number of touring guys who get their sound mostly from their pedal boards, and the idea of a supper light amp that they can use to get a - good - consistent sound every night might be very appealing.


Gabriel

[John Eppstein]

Incidentally, this amp is NOT a conventional transformerless tube design, which uses a cathode follower stage for impedance conversion. These guys are using a FM modulated carrier scheme similar to what is used in a switching power supply, which does actually use a small transformer, only not in the normal way - it won't get proper saturation distortion.

All in all it seems to me like a design made by an electronics hot-shot who doesn't deal with many real musicians. I could be wrong, but that's how it seems to me......

[otek]

Particularly for bass, there are several small, light-weight Class D amps coming out now, and they are getting good reviews.

Orange, Mesa and TC Electronic all have variations on this theme.


otek

[weedywet]

for people who like bad bass sounds

[Damage, Inc.]

Longer useful tube life is expected because less current is required for a given output power.

Yep, I read it, and all I find are statements like this. Nothing quantifiable. I can make my tubes last ten years, too--just set the bias North Pole-cold. If the amp doesn't sound like dog shit, I'll gladly eat my words. Until then, I'm happy with my MESA 2:90.

[nobby]

The mojo alone weighs more than 5 lbs in a MAN'S guitar amp.

Give me some IRON, baby

I heard the sound samples. For guitar, it sounds like a 20 watt amp, distortion wise. It was funny when it sounded like he was trying to get it to feedback. No dice

"There is no output transformer to saturate"

No shit.

It might be good on electric piccolo or chapman stick.