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  #1  
Old May 7th, 2012, 11:09 AM
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Default What legislation would bring online piracy to an end?

Hi
I have been listening to your radio show archives and it has been a really positive experience.
On a personal level I think I really needed to hear a bunch of guys who really care about music, taking about music and how important it is to them.

On listening to the shows you have really brought home the effect of piracy i.e. you have personalised it. I now have a bunch of people in my head that I know this really makes a difference to and can see how that difference has a serious knock on effect on the music we hear, where its recorded etc etc.

It is strange as these things are kind of obvious but hearing real people who it makes a real difference to, makes me care more and helps for me to then rethink my position on things and actually get behind something to lesson the problem.

So what legislation do you feel will stop or dramatically lesson online piracy? How does the line between the freedom the internet offers and the consequences of that freedom cause get drawn?

If it is true as I heard on your show that only 1% of music downloads are paid for then how should that be stopped/lessoned.

For example the legislation on the internet that recently tried to be passed through the US and Europe was met with widespread condemnation from wikipedia etc. for removing freedom from the internet etc. Were you for this or against this? Would it make a difference to music piracy?

I always hear the arguments from my friends that large corporations/governments just want to control the internet for their own selfish ends, however if that means that there is a return to music being bought then yes thats good for large media conglomerates but also everyone else beneath them wanting to still have a job and get paid etc.

So what legislation would you support to decrease online piracy?
Do you think its coming anytime soon?
If/when it arrives do you think there will be a recapitalisation of your area of the industry?

Geoff
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Old May 7th, 2012, 03:33 PM
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Default Re: What legislation would bring online piracy to an end?

It's not a question of legislation, The laws we already have are FIRMLY on "our" side.

It's a social engineering matter. Technology has opened a new avenue for social interaction, and the social norms and common practice boundaries for that have to be established.

new laws will NOT "solve" the problem. Applying more laws to piracy is just "squeezing the ballon."
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Old May 7th, 2012, 08:33 PM
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Default Re: What legislation would bring online piracy to an end?

I disagree, somewhat, anyway.

We do have plenty of laws in place in they were properly enforced, but there are a couple of key areas where more is needed.

First, the "safe harbor" provision of the DMCA needs to be fixed to prevent businesses profiting from facilitating piracy and pulling a Bart Simpson "I didn't do it!" routine.

Second, we NEED blocking of offshore infringing sites. Infringing sites within the country should be able to be controlled without much more than the DMCA fix, but offshore sites are another matter.

Interestingly, the UK has recently instructed all their major ISPs to block The Pirate Bay. It should be interesting to see the effect this has on both piracy and sales over the next months - I'm betting it will be significant and if so should point the way for actions within the US.

Incidentally, the protests that killed SOPA were a well planned and executed attack by Google, which spent more money on lobbying against SOPA than they did total in the previous few years - and that's just the legal lobbying, not the behind the scenes influence peddling they're so good at.
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Old May 7th, 2012, 11:40 PM
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Default Re: What legislation would bring online piracy to an end?

"Second, we NEED blocking of offshore infringing sites. Infrionging sites within the country should be able to be controlled without much more than the DMCA fix, but offshore sites are another matter."

Seems to be the right idea and given the loss of revenue and therefore tax revenue I am surprised this isn't happening more, but then I understand very little about why piracy is allowed to go on unchallenged on the internet.

"Incidentally, the protests that killed SOPA were a well planned and executed attack by Google,"

excuse my ignorance but why, what does google stand to lose?

This is a separate issue but I know mixerman mentioned his son listens to music on youtube, all young people I know listen to music on youtube I even find myself doing it these days. It seems strange to me that thats happening why give all your stuff away?

Geoff

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Old May 7th, 2012, 11:47 PM
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Default Re: What legislation would bring online piracy to an end?

making people responsible acording to local, "physical", laws is a step I'd love to see more of...
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Old May 8th, 2012, 01:40 AM
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Default Re: What legislation would bring online piracy to an end?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketstereo View Post
"Incidentally, the protests that killed SOPA were a well planned and executed attack by Google,"

excuse my ignorance but why, what does google stand to lose?
Google stands to lose a lot - they make millions and millions of dollars placing advertising on pirate sites to start with.

They also have taken an adversary stance to copyright in general and enforcement of copyright law in particular. It's part of Google's mission statement that they want to compile all IP and make it available for free - obviously they can't do that if they have to pay royalties, so any enemy of copyright is a friend of Google. (Of course they don't feel the same way about publishing their own IP, just that belonging to everyone else.)


Quote:
This is a separate issue but I know mixerman mentioned his son listens to music on youtube, all young people I know listen to music on youtube I even find myself doing it these days. It seems strange to me that thats happening why give all your stuff away?

Geoff
Youtube is now placing ads on most of their stuff and splitting the revenue with rights holders.

Also, presumably those who actually CARE about what they listen to will use YT for discovery and then purchase what they like in a format that offers better quality.

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Originally Posted by Ein Mangfaldig Kar View Post
making people responsible acording to local, "physical", laws is a step I'd love to see more of...
I'd like to see some international treaty action start happening. There have been some moves in the right direction but we need more.
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Old May 8th, 2012, 03:09 PM
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Default Re: What legislation would bring online piracy to an end?

If you think that piracy of music and movies is bad, Google is in trouble for knowingly selling ads to parties involved in human trafficking and the 3rd world sex slave trade. Google also got busted for selling ads to parties who vend controlled substances. This offense cost Google's INVESTORS a whopping half-billion dollars. What should have happened is Schmidt and Company should have sat time being some bubba's prison bitch.
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Old May 8th, 2012, 03:12 PM
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Default Re: What legislation would bring online piracy to an end?

OH! And the next time I get photographed by the Google street-view cam I'm calling the cops and suing Google for harassment!
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  #9  
Old May 8th, 2012, 03:37 PM
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Default Re: What legislation would bring online piracy to an end?

I never realised google placed ads on people sites I always assumed people put them there themselves, shows how little I understand.

The human trafficking case if true is obviously horrendous.

So is googles lobbying power such that it dwarfs that of the media industries i.e groups like the Vivendi group which own universal etc. I suppose it must be.

I am surprised that when SOPA bill was being debated there wasn't a greater push from the media to gain public support etc.

I will go and read more about it.
Thanks
Geoff
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Old May 8th, 2012, 04:26 PM
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Default Re: What legislation would bring online piracy to an end?

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Originally Posted by pocketstereo View Post
The human trafficking case if true is obviously horrendous.
UPDATE: Reps. Blackburn and Maloney, and Human Rights Advocates Call on Google to Stop Profiting from Human Trafficking Advertising - http://musictechpolicy.wordpress.com/2012/04/05/here-we-go-again-human-rights-advocates-call-on-google-to-stop-profiting-from-human-trafficking-advertising/

Chris Castle is our eye on Google. I suggest subscribing to his blog.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketstereo View Post
So is googles lobbying power such that it dwarfs that of the media industries i.e groups like the Vivendi group which own universal etc. I suppose it must be.
The way many of the so-called "tech companies" got where they are is by using other people's venture cash and stock portfolio investment money to prop up their bottom lines, then use that cash to buy out real companies, often times with disastrous results. The AOL buyout of Time-Warner followed by the combined AOLTime-Warner crashing into the ground like a flaming jetliner due to AOL's people's mismanagement of the combined company is the classic example. Lots of people get screwed, the whole way from the individual investor who looses his retirement savings to the grunt-level employee who is out of a job.

So yes Google has lots and lots and lots of cash on their balance sheet but it is anyone's guess how much of that money is actual profit earned on income verses raising venture capital and selling stock shares to the general public. My bet it is the later and eventually Google will be exposed as a ponzi scheme and implode like Enron did once the average investor and/or the SEC comes to the realization as to how over valued Google likely is.

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Originally Posted by pocketstereo View Post
I am surprised that when SOPA bill was being debated there wasn't a greater push from the media to gain public support etc.
There was/is a huge push from a variety of industries outside of entertainment who support SOPA including the major pharmaceutical companies. What I find so totally shocking is that Google has more influence in the halls of congress than Merck, Pfizer, Glaxo/Smith/Kline, Schering/Plough, Lilly, J&J, Bristol-Myers Squibb, and Abbott combined. There is something radically wrong with this because in the real world Google can NOT be bigger than the whole pharma industry. And remember, Google is by no means the only company of it's type that opposes SOPA. Just the biggest.
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"The tech sector is like a guy in a crowded prison cell, who finds a hand grenade, and sets it off, so that he'll have the entire cell to himself." - Dwoz
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Old May 8th, 2012, 06:55 PM
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Default Re: What legislation would bring online piracy to an end?

352355]
I am surprised that when SOPA bill was being debated there wasn't a greater push from the media to gain public support etc.
[/QUOTE]

I'm not. Lars Ulrich Syndrome.

Obviously Metallica is still doing just fine 12 years after that, but it did give them an unfavorable view from the public for a short time (remember that viral video of cartoon Hetfield growling "NAPSTER BAD! MONEY GOOD!"?)

There's really no nice way to ask someone "would you please stop ripping me off?" You will either get a denial that you are being ripped off or angry denunciations like "well you're so rich and greedy I'm entitled to rip you off. Music is for the PEOPLE."

I just saw a recent quote from Blackie Lawless of WASP, who was himself paraphrasing Perry Farrell, saying that people are complaining there's no good new music, but it's because of those people stealing the music and putting the labels out of business, so they shouldn't really complain. That was a defense of anti-piracy that really rang true to me.
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Old May 8th, 2012, 09:59 PM
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Default Re: What legislation would bring online piracy to an end?

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Originally Posted by radiationroom View Post
... Chris Castle is our eye on Google. I suggest subscribing to his blog. ...
Just be aware that he's as biased and agenda-ridden as Mike Masnick (Techdirt), but in the opposite direction.
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Old May 8th, 2012, 10:05 PM
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Default Re: What legislation would bring online piracy to an end?

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... I'd like to see some international treaty action start happening. There have been some moves in the right direction but we need more.
Not if we can help it...
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/6883...NZ-legislation

(The TPPA contains some swingeing copyright provisions.)
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Old May 9th, 2012, 12:27 AM
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Default Re: What legislation would bring online piracy to an end?

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Not if we can help it...
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/6883...NZ-legislation

(The TPPA contains some swingeing copyright provisions.)
Quote:
Tobacco companies' arguments that the US Government's proposal to display graphic health warnings on cigarette packets abridges their freedom of speech are being fought in the US courts and are likely to reach the Supreme Court soon.
That's the only example cited in that article, if you've read it.

If you don't care if your fellow countrymen get cancer, I guess I shouldn't either.
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Old May 9th, 2012, 01:17 AM
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Default Re: What legislation would bring online piracy to an end?

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Originally Posted by Don Hills View Post
Just be aware that he's as biased and agenda-ridden as Mike Masnick (Techdirt),
True.....

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Originally Posted by Don Hills View Post
but in the opposite direction.
Like that's a bad thing?
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Old May 9th, 2012, 02:59 AM
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Default Re: What legislation would bring online piracy to an end?

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That's the only example cited in that article, if you've read it. ...
I've read it. I've also been keeping up with the TPPA issues, which it appears you haven't. Would you like some links?
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Old May 9th, 2012, 03:00 AM
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Default Re: What legislation would bring online piracy to an end?

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True.....



Like that's a bad thing?

It depends on your own position. I find them both equally teeth-grinding.
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Old May 9th, 2012, 09:49 PM
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Default Re: What legislation would bring online piracy to an end?

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I've read it. I've also been keeping up with the TPPA issues, which it appears you haven't. Would you like some links?
Only if they're relevant to the issue of piracy. Tobacco and medicine are OT.
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Old May 9th, 2012, 11:01 PM
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Default Re: What legislation would bring online piracy to an end?

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Originally Posted by nobby View Post
Only if they're relevant to the issue of piracy. Tobacco and medicine are OT.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-P...ic_Partnership

http://keionline.org/sites/default/f...pr-chapter.pdf

http://computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/...alogue-on-tppa

http://internetnz.net.nz/news/blog/2...gotiators-TPPA

http://lawgeeknz.posterous.com/us-wa...zealand-ip-law

http://lawgeeknz.posterous.com/trans...ip-tpp-bust-up

http://tppwatch.org/news-video-audio...aws-jan172011/

https://www.eff.org/issues/tpp

http://publicaddress.net/speaker/tppa-its-extreme/
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Old May 9th, 2012, 11:11 PM
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Default Re: What legislation would bring online piracy to an end?

The very first link you posted has something patently wrong, right off the bat.

Quote:
Overall, the USTR proposal for the TPP intellectual property chapter would:

Include a number of features that would lock-in as a global norm many controversial features of U.S. law, such as endless copyright terms.
What endless copyright terms?
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