MiX iT! #4d : Discuss It

[Chris Lambrechts]

The discussion threadz are NOT just for the mixers. Everyone is very much encouraged to participate. MiX iT! is an educational event for EVERYBODY.

Please visit the Post It thread to listen to the mixes.



MiX iT! #4 - Discuss It

Sponsored by Kagi Media and Auraleo Advanced Learning

We have 2 basic threads in this phase:

Post It

Discuss It(this thread)

This time around we will move to the featured mixes discussion almost immediately, while the general discussion will continue @ the same time.


Timeline

There is NO timeframe for MiX iT #4. It will stop when ... well ... we say it stops and / or start a new, well organized cycle in the future.

Discuss It Guidelines

You can discuss anything you would like.

This should be a learning experience for all participants--whether you're a seasoned mixer doing this 24/7, or this is actually your very first mix--you're here to learn. And even if you didn't mix the song you're encouraged to participate in the discussions. This thread is not for MiX iT! mixers only. We would like to hear from all our forum members.

And please remember, positive + constructive criticism or opinions are, more often than not, of more value to both the mixer + the reader than negative comments.


Let's discuss these mixes + learn more about mixing.

Thanx!
Charles + Chris

[AndyGallas]

Just want to say, right now we have the first four mixes uploaded and they couldn't be more different in an interesting way from each other, I didn't expect that. Very cool guys!

[meLoCo_go]

Originally Posted by AndyGallas

Just want to say, right now we have the first four mixes uploaded and they couldn't be more different in an interesting way from each other, I didn't expect that. Very cool guys!

Umm...
I guess you didn't knock on the wood when you typed that?

[AndyGallas]

Originally Posted by meLoCo_go

Umm...
I guess you didn't knock on the wood when you typed that?

Well...

... dunno, somehow I didn't feel that I'm in the right position to review the other mixes. But okay, I will do next week, I need just some more time. Just take it with a grain of salt then, it'll be just my stupid opinion.

[meLoCo_go]

Originally Posted by AndyGallas

Well...

... dunno, somehow I didn't feel that I'm in the right position to review the other mixes. But okay, I will do next week, I need just some more time. Just take it with a grain of salt then, it'll be just my stupid opinion.

I meant that it's couple of days since "Post it" started and we still have same four mixes

[AndyGallas]

Originally Posted by meLoCo_go

I meant that it's couple of days since "Post it" started and we still have same four mixes

You are wrong meLoCo, we have five mixes

[AndyGallas]

Okay, here are my thoughts on the so far uploaded mixes.


Mitch Deason
Powerful sounding mix overall with a huge lowend. I would have shortened the intro, pre-rockpart and outro parts. The Filterbass sounds cool but is to loud sometimes, vocals doesn't always sit right to me, to low sometimes. Kick and snare sounds very processed, well that's a matter of taste but they really sound too squashes in the rockpart to me.


Baeli
I like the guitar at the beginning. The rap part comes too abrupt for me, there is no connection betwin those two parts, I'd try a crossfade or some additional rhythm-instruments which runs on both parts, perhaps faded in after the first guitar bars, to break that hard cut a bit. I also think that the rap part is to long. The rest is fine to me arrange wise nice ideas at the end. The balance of the rock part sounds a bit screwed to me. I think the up front vocals doesn't sell the jingle, it's the rockpart as a hole. The snare sounds to much on the top, it doesn't seem like a part of a hole rock kit. In a rock part I personally like when the vocals fight with the guitars but are still the main actor, obviously a very fine line to get right.


Meloco
I like really the overall balance of your mix. The intro and the part after the rockpart is too long to me. Your approach with that reverbing sound is very cool and I believe this could really enrich the mix but you used it all over the place and that is way, way to much. I would use it only partly to create a subtle vibe and to keep it exciting but not to overload the listeners mind. In the rock part the verb in deepth sounds almost annoying to me I wouldn't use it there.


Mortendk
You have some nice ideas in your mix but I think the overall balance isn't there. Your mix needs more meat in the mids and lowmids, rather by balance than by eq. Listen at the rockpart for example, the HH/overheadt is really loud, almost louder then the guitars. Listen at the pre rockpart, the dolcemer seems to be almost the most imporant element but the twang chord guitar is very low. May I ask how you build up this mix?


Now feel free to bash my mix and hopefully I could awake a discussion


/Andy

[AndyGallas]

Wow tannoy, I really dig what you did with the arrangement, very creative!

[tannoy]

Thx Andy! Glad you like it. I'll write some comments about the mixes within the next week, I'm kinda swamped right now.

Cheers,

Marco

[Chris Lambrechts]

WOW ... the diversity so far ... stunning.

keep 'em coming everyone. great stuff.


Chris

[Baeli]

Originally Posted by AndyGallas

Baeli
I like the guitar at the beginning. The rap part comes too abrupt for me, there is no connection between those two parts, I'd try a cross-fade or some additional rhythm-instruments which runs on both parts, perhaps faded in after the first guitar bars, to break that hard cut a bit. I also think that the rap part is to long. The rest is fine to me arrange wise nice ideas at the end. The balance of the rock part sounds a bit screwed to me. I think the up front vocals doesn't sell the jingle, it's the rock-part as a hole. The snare sounds to much on the top, it doesn't seem like a part of a hole rock kit. In a rock part I personally like when the vocals fight with the guitars but are still the main actor, obviously a very fine line to get right.

/Andy

Hey Andy, thanks for taking the time to comment. Though I don't agree with your comment about the rap starting too abruptly, I like it that way, I appreciate you offering an alternative suggestion and I'll give it a try to see what turns up. I agree with the snare and somewhat with the vocal comments. The snare was a knee jerk reaction after I heard how good yours and Mitch's sounded. (Mine sucked) A by product of the change was my session not opening and having to change rigs that didn't have all the same plugins, the verb I had on the vox wasn't available and I decided to leave them dry which pushed them, perhaps a bit to much, up front.

This is the second time I did a 11th hour remix before posting a mix that was maybe better off left alone. Hopefully after this one I will have finally learned a lesson. "Decide that it's finished and let it stand, or start over"

Anyways, I've jotted down my first impressions of what's been posted so far and will revisit my thoughts and post them next week.

Later....

[AndyGallas]

Originally Posted by Baeli

Hey Andy, thanks for taking the time to comment. Though I don't agree with your comment about the rap starting too abruptly, I like it that way,

Sure, it's just an opinion, if you like it the way it sounds that's all that really matters!

Originally Posted by Baeli

The snare was a knee jerk reaction after I heard how good yours and Mitch's sounded.

Thanks Baeli! And yes, that can happen. Regarding my snare, a lot from the sound is comming from the room- and overhead tracks. I used the snare-track only to improve the attack, crack and punch a bit. I also used an EMT 245 reverb on drums.

/Andy

[musicdog]

Hey Guys,

My first reviews for the posted mixes. I started with listening and during that i typed my thoughts. It was stated that we should be positive about eachother, but i do think it`s almost impossible to be positive about things you don`t like in a mix. Keep in mind that I mentioned things that could have been different and that i`m not mentioning it because it was bad.

AndyGallas:
First to revieuw and i was stunned. Clear in your face drums, Nice sound fx added in the intro, but also through the rest f the song. You didn`t use everything but took out the most important features end gave them a good place. Really love this, nice and still open. Good job.

Baeli:
Good and short. You took the vocals en only a little part of the instruments and put it into 1,08 minutes. A bit soft compared to Andy`s, but I think well balanced in the mix. Very strong ending.

MDeason:
My first impression when listening was, that it didn`t sound like one song. The different parts (different instruments and vox) were not binding it to one piece.
With the drums it became a bit more clear. Kick very direct, snare with reverb and the toms sounded like played from another room. Same goes for the different bass parts. Sometimes like played in the distance and other like right in your face. Very nice guitar sounds and balanced left right. All used vox were clear. And in total it wasn`t mixed badly, but gave it a strange vibe. (but some things are that way and after getting used to, the best you ever experienced)

Meloco:
Well balanced mix, but did you steel my settings from mixit 2?? Very heavy on the reverbs and some delay`s. I like it, but after mixit 2 I started doing less of that. You also used much of the tracks that were handed to us. You are also a bit soft sounding.

MortenDK:
Love the very slow buildup from the start. Keeping the sitar up for almost the whole first bit. Stretching the drums in the beat. And then letting it blow out. And the fx on the drum/percussion part towards the end is also very well done.
I`m not sure what to think off the reverb on the vox. I think it`s something too get used to.

I`m beginning to think that Andy has an extra talent for getting things very loud.

Prunelle:
A good mix. Love the drums! You have changed a bit of the arrangements or left a few (in my taste) essential things out. About the 3 minutes you have (also) done something with one of the bassparts. I couldn`t figure it out at first, but I think you used eq or so, to get a percussive sound. Later on it became clear that you wanted the popping bass-sound. A bit too loud in the mix. You do have a louder overall mix than most of the previous mentioned people.

Tannoy:
Spacey, what a good use of the material. And nice add-ons. Whahahahaa, what a killer approach. Would have loved to hear you keep it up right to the end. Compared to the start it ended to “normal”. (start 3:33 minutes) The real ending you made is again right on the spot. Balance between some of the vox are a bit too different (loud).
But overall a very well done mix.

That`it for now. Enjoy Life. I do!

[AndyGallas]

Hey musicdog,

thank you for your kind words about my mix, I'm glad you like it!
I'll review yours and prunelles tomorrow when I have more time.

Andy

[tannoy]

Thx for reviewing, musicdog! Glad you like that mix. My reviews are coming soon.

Cheers,

Marco

[AndyGallas]

So here are my thoughts:

Musicdog
that's a vibey intro, it sounds promising to me very nice. The breaking-in rap part is a cool idea, the following pre-rock-part sound relaxed and easy to me and translates fine... well as a sidenote... guitars are not excatly your fave instruments :-)

The rock part: Well, the drums sounds to flat and dry to me, I'd like the snare with more crack and bite. Again why are the guitars so low? Are you a bass player or what? ...just kidding

The parts after the rockpart translate fine but are a bit undefined to me. What are the main actors here? What should be most exciting to the listener on each part? "Never leave the listerner alone" I learned once and got my scolding. I mean it's all there but I miss the focus, the story on each part a bit. Sorry don't know how to explain better.


prunelle
I agree with musicdog here "A good mix" with really nice ideas! I'd try to give the drums and the percussions a bit more of their own room though, sounds a bit flat to me.


Andy

[musicdog]

Hey Andy,

Thnx for the comments. I was happy to read that there were only a few comments.

I agree on the focus part, for every part. My point of vieuw on the mix overall was to achive that a listener finds out to hear something new, everytime again.

The flat drumsound (aspecialy the snare) were harder present at first, but i thought they were a bit to disturbing with some of my sounds. That`s why i pulled it back in the mix, also giving them a more "darker" sound. Maybe i overdun it a bit, but we learn as we go.

Guitars are low, cause they are overrated instruments. just kidding
But there`s a lot to use in the same range, wich make it sound more different than a western rocksongthingie. That`s why the guitars are more on the background.

In retrospective i probably should have taken more of the matter in my own hands en direct the different parts in volume, giving the listener those when i thought they should hear it.

Thanks again, Andy
ps: yes i`m a bassplayer, but that wasn`t the reasen that guitars are in the back.

[prunelle]

Hey girls...

I've listened to your mixes, there are some interesting things to say about what was done.

it's hard to find the right word




more to come...

[tannoy]

Hi,

so here are my comments on the mixes posted so far:


Andy Gallas

I had to laugh at the beginning of the mix, due to your ’country’ – elements, cool thing :-). There’s some kind of nice filtered delay at one part of your mix (after the 1st chorus, Aardvark singing ‘Mixerman’) which sounds a bit too mid/low-middy to my ears, it stucks a bit out frequency-wise, maybe a tad less ‘weeeooomp’. I think you’ve tried to bring out the attack of the guitar parts in the chorus (could be that I’m wrong here and it’s the rock-bass track run through an amp-simulation or something) – anyways, I like that idea but I think, it’s a bit ‘overdone’ loudnesswise. The ending is a surprise - but a nice one. Well done mix.


Baeli

Cool idea with the guitar-part at the beginning, creates a nice atmosphere. There’s a kind of tension in the build up (good thing) which doesn’t exactly reach its climax in the chorus. I’d love to hear more place for the different elements in the chorus and the vocals to be embedded in that, it sounds a bit ‘squeezed’ to me. The ending is great. Brevity is the essence of wit, nice one.


MDeason

Wow, that’s pretty loud – and my roof has been blown away by those basses...lol...ok...it’s a bit too squashed for my taste...I think you’ve nailed it balancewise, but the sound of the compression and the eq is too much in front to my ears. Lots of attacks but I somewhat miss the basis (the drums are sounding a bit ‘clicky’ for example). This one sounds more on the bass/mid/hi-mid side of things on my speakers. I’d like to hear this one with a ‘less is more’ approach.


MeLoCo_go (What's this name about, btw ? I've always wanted to ask that )

I hear lots of room/reverb on this one. That creates a certain kind of atmosphere – the first picture I had in my mind listening to your mix was that band playing in an old empty industry-building. It’s well balanced, although at some points I think the vocs get a bit buried due to the use of room. Nice atmosphere to me, I like it.


MortenDK

I like the structure of your mix. Cool thing with the hihat at around 1:35 and the following build-up to the chorus. To my ears, frequency-wise there’s missing some ‘beef’ at some points in terms of missing bass – it could be that this impression is due to lots of mid/hi-mid content. It’s dynamic, which I like a lot.


Musicdog

I like a lot of the ideas you’ve built into this one – the usage of the elements and the added effects do work. Sound-wise it’s on the locked-up side of things to my ears – the drums, the air between the elements gets lost from the beginning of the chorus. I can’t tell exactly what it is, maybe bus-compression on some bussed tracks ? You’ve tried to emphasize the attack of one of the guitar-parts or the rockbass in the chorus – I like that idea, although I think the attack’s a bit too loud in this case. If there was some more place for the elements, I think that mix would really work.


Prunelle

Sounds good to my ears balance-wise. It’s a bit dry, I think some more room on certain elements would be a good choice (of course, that remark doesn’t apply if you wanted it to sound that way). I like it, cool mix!


Cheers,

Marco

[meLoCo_go]

Originally Posted by tannoy

MeLoCo_go (What's this name about, btw ? I've always wanted to ask that )

I hear lots of room/reverb on this one. That creates a certain kind of atmosphere – the first picture I had in my mind listening to your mix was that band playing in an old empty industry-building. It’s well balanced, although at some points I think the vocs get a bit buried due to the use of room. Nice atmosphere to me, I like it.

The name.. um, you can get that from my avatar, I guess))) Actually "me loco" is a chorus from one song and "go" is just for fun)

Yeah, there's A LOT reverb on my mix. It started with that Trazan's mandolin part in the beginning - I noodled with it and slapped some reverb and the initial preset had very long decay and was completely wet and I thought "whoa, that sound draws a picture in my head" and I felt like watching a performer in the middle east city between stone buildings, something like that. I wanted it sound like it was played in natural stone amfiteater. I had to use much more reverb in the other sections of the song than I normally would so that the image won't change much when band comes in.
"Empty industry building" - I laughed when I read this, cause the biggest reverb in the song, used on that mando part was "bath house" impulse from Bricasti, I guess it is pretty precise description of what bath house is))))