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  #101  
Old April 16th, 2009, 05:04 PM
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Default Re: Are good hardware compressors more powerful than plugins

For those of us who cut our teeth in real rooms, with real gear, with real bands there is a big understanding on where all the vitriol comes from towards plugs.

Still my reality is very different from my past reality and I make it work.

I'm going to give a specific couple of instances where I've chosen one over the other for good reason:

1. I was trying to get a vocal to sit, it needed a clean gain reduction that the trakker can do while sitting on its hands. The stuff was already in the box and i ran out to the trakker thinking i was going to get what i wanted, it didn't happen the way my minds eye saw it going down, i tried an 1176, that didn't fly (too much grip) so i backpedaled and pulled up a Sonalksis MK2 Compressor and it gave me exactly what i wanted, like the trakker but with just the right amount of color in that range i was trying to control.

2. The next record, too much nasal shit going on, everything in the box was missing the mark, out to the trakker into the distressor with a hint of 550a and we've got what we need. The Trakker alone was too clean and the Distressor alone brought too much grind to the upper mids. Guess where the EQ went?

I do find that MOST plugs break down after a point. I still think this has to do with the bit depth and where anything over -6db in digital starts to erode.
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  #102  
Old April 16th, 2009, 06:20 PM
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Default Re: Are good hardware compressors more powerful than plugins

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otek, what choice, specifically, are you referring to when you say "informed"?
Anything involving a choice between hardware and software to perform a certain task. Sometimes this choice can be forced upon you by circumstances beyond your control. Sometimes it is voluntary.

What I take issue with, and what started this whole discussion, is when people perpetuate some sort of fantasy about what great hardware does and doesn't do. That's all.

Not that there aren't some strange motivations for going with either alternative. Many of them, as ugly as it sounds, stem from either laziness, ignorance or indifference.

Though there are other reasons, as well. I said a few seconds ago, these choices can be forced upon you. Such has been my case.

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Originally Posted by Comte de St Germain View Post
For those of us who cut our teeth in real rooms, with real gear, with real bands there is a big understanding on where all the vitriol comes from towards plugs.

Still my reality is very different from my past reality and I make it work.
The Comte condenses my thoughts very elegantly.

When many of the bigger regional studios went belly-up around here, and work dried up by way of the radical changes in the music industry, I and many others had a choice between either adapting or getting out altogether. I chose the former, and my vehicle was the DAW, which compromised sound quality in favor of flexibility and convenience.

Like the Comte, I have adapted, and gotten to a point where I can use the advantages of the DAW and either circumvent or live with its inadequacies.


otek
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  #103  
Old April 16th, 2009, 09:04 PM
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Default Re: Are good hardware compressors more powerful than plugins

Ok i'll try to focus on my next post.


The ideal world is pretty much good hardware (some plugs possibly have the edge for individual tasks but emulations may not really be up to the same spec) is ideal

But the reality is cost. And big cost.

So you gotta do what you gotta do.

But there evidently is a difference, thats the general view, and it seems as if most of you would prefer the real deal, which is fair enough (certainly in the case of emulations)

But is this a hunger for the best, the Ferrari? Or is it simply that they are better and easier to work with.

I appreciate that you find it hard to tell me what its really like, you don't wanna sound like you are selling something when in reality its only your own experiences that have made you enjoy/benefit from the use of the real kit. And this does avoid the fact that we were comparing hardware and plug ins, rather than the experience of using them.


This forum has always taught me to place mic technique and performance first before anything else.

however another struck me does having a hardware compressor then come into mic technique? After all how you move the mic around can influence the compressor and make you decide something that a plug in, unless inserted onto a track and you listen to the effect (most seem to place this on after a recording however) may never hear till later on in the mix process.
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  #104  
Old April 16th, 2009, 09:28 PM
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Default Re: Are good hardware compressors more powerful than plugins

if it sounds like it needs a compressor, or it would sound better in the mix with a compressor, i add one. NOW.

otherwise, how do I make every OTHER decision as we progress when it's being heard against a sound that's only going to change?


I think "vitriol" towards plug ins is a silly idea.

It's, as a friend of mine used to say, like when someone stubs his toe and says "stupid door!"... cursing at inanimate objects.

it's more that even though I can make the choice, I make it in favour of what sounds BETTER to me.

that's all.

and it's not the magic of hardware... it's specifics.
between an RNC and the Digi Comp3 I might take the plug in.

but on the other side, I sometimes think you want your options to be 'validated' by others here, and that's not always going to happen.

Pretty much everyone here, except me, thinks the SM57 is THE snare mic handed by god to adam for use with his portastudio.

I think it's near enough to my last choice on anything.

But the point is, it doesn't MATTER to me to have other people say "yes, you're absolutely right" or if other people say they think I'm crazy.

and it shouldn't matter to you, IF you listen and decide for yourself.

making armchair decisions based on advice is only going to take you so far, even it it IS good advice.
you ultimately do what works for YOU.




back on the main point, let me say this (although I know it's been said before)

Yes, I CAN make it work ITB or with plug ins.
And I can be happy with the result.
But it will almost always take longer, be harder, and feel less satisfying in its process than if I did the same things with good hardware outboard.

I plug in an La2a on the guitar insert, I match it for unity gain, I have it barely compressing, perhaps 2-3 dB at the loudest points... and the guitar just SOUNDS BETTER than without it.
Straight away.
The level is matched - pop the insert out/pop the insert in - HEY that's BETTER...

the same feeling does NOT come from plug in versions.
It may compress effectively, in that the dynamics are constrained or it pumps a bit or the peaks are rounded... but there isn't that general sense of "yeah"

that doesn;t say "i HATE plug ins"

it only says I prefer the outboard
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  #105  
Old April 16th, 2009, 09:39 PM
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Default Re: Are good hardware compressors more powerful than plugins

Quote:
Originally Posted by weedywet View Post

Pretty much everyone here, except me, thinks the SM57 is THE snare mic handed by god to adam for use with his portastudio.
Hm...wasn't the SM57 handed to Eve ? Guess I should read some parts of the Bible over...


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  #106  
Old April 16th, 2009, 09:49 PM
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Default Re: Are good hardware compressors more powerful than plugins

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Originally Posted by tannoy View Post
Hm...wasn't the SM57 handed to Eve ?
Nah.

Eve somehow seemed to like the RE-20 better.


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  #107  
Old April 16th, 2009, 09:54 PM
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Default Re: Are good hardware compressors more powerful than plugins

no no, the whole thing was set up before eve arrived.

god told adam he could have a studio, and adam said 'great!'

but the downside was god had this girlfriend who sings...
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  #108  
Old April 16th, 2009, 09:56 PM
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Default Re: Are good hardware compressors more powerful than plugins

Is the devil a eurodesk?
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  #109  
Old April 16th, 2009, 09:58 PM
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Default Re: Are good hardware compressors more powerful than plugins

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Is the devil a eurodesk?
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  #110  
Old April 16th, 2009, 10:47 PM
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Default Re: Are good hardware compressors more powerful than plugins

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Originally Posted by weedywet View Post
god told adam he could have a studio, and adam said 'great!'

but the downside was god had this girlfriend who sings...
Hehehe - now that's just too damn funny there
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  #111  
Old April 16th, 2009, 11:30 PM
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Default Re: Are good hardware compressors more powerful than plugins

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Originally Posted by weedywet View Post
if it sounds like it needs a compressor, or it would sound better in the mix with a compressor, i add one. NOW.

otherwise, how do I make every OTHER decision as we progress when it's being heard against a sound that's only going to change?
Ah, good. That relates directly to something I was going to toss in here. Which is this.

Part of any thinking about this particular burning issue is, by necessity, at least sometimes, about the actual use of a compressor. The practical circumstances.

Sometimes, people want to get the sound together as they want it, make a decision, commit, and record that.

If you want to use a compressor in this, and that's part of the signal path on the way in to a recorded track, using a software plugin is just not happening.


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  #112  
Old April 17th, 2009, 01:14 AM
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Default Re: Are good hardware compressors more powerful than plugins

Vitriol isn't really the same meaning as it once was, it used to stand for "Universal Solvent."

All that psycho-babble aside, the damn truth is WW is right on about the way hardware works immediately. It's the sole reason i have lots of expensive compression and eq even though most times it's only used during tracking.

A vocal that benefits from compression sent to the artists phones is going to inspire, that doesn't work at all with software IMO. After all we're here to capture inspired performances, nothing matters if we miss that.

Much like a great room gives back, so does hardware.
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  #113  
Old April 17th, 2009, 01:40 AM
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Default Re: Are good hardware compressors more powerful than plugins

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Originally Posted by weedywet View Post
no no, the whole thing was set up before eve arrived.

god told adam he could have a studio, and adam said 'great!'

but the downside was god had this girlfriend who sings...
HAAA!


Super close to the bone!
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  #114  
Old April 17th, 2009, 05:46 AM
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Default Re: Are good hardware compressors more powerful than plugins

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HAAA!


Super close to the bone!
Doh! Another pun.

Surprised no one has made a crack about Adam's "hardware".
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  #115  
Old April 17th, 2009, 08:54 AM
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Default Re: Are good hardware compressors more powerful than plugins

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Surprised no one has made a crack about Adam's "hardware".
I hear Eve is all about rib-bon(e)s.



Ok, I will shut up now....



otek
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  #116  
Old April 17th, 2009, 09:14 AM
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Default Re: Are good hardware compressors more powerful than plugins

No, this is really the logical end to this thread anyway...
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  #117  
Old April 17th, 2009, 01:00 PM
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Default Re: Are good hardware compressors more powerful than plugins

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Nah.

Eve somehow seemed to like the RE-20 better.
You've got a dirty mind...the only thing she liked about the RE-20 was the case bundled with it back then.....see attached picture.... and that's the truth.
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  #118  
Old April 24th, 2009, 05:09 PM
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Default Re: Are good hardware compressors more powerful than plugins

It all started when Steve Jobs offered Eve the Apple.

Adam was the first plug in.
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  #119  
Old April 25th, 2009, 09:24 AM
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Default Re: Are good hardware compressors more powerful than plugins

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It all started when Steve Jobs offered Eve the Apple.

Adam was the first plug in.


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