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Old May 19th, 2009, 06:59 AM
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Default Pro Tools certification. Should I do it?

So the soon-to-be wife and I have been discussing moving to Cape Town after we get married. Honestly, both her and I are so sick of this humungous, stinky, and fast becoming passe' city and since it's been tough times lately, we decided if we're going to be poor and miserable, we may as well do it in nicer scenery.

Of course, this means that I'll have to leave my current studio, where I'm quite comfortable, and seek out another down in CT (or set up my own, but that's just a pipe dream for now), but lately the thought has been bothering me less and less because a change is definitely needed. The good news is that they have better studios in Cape Town but the catch is that most of the serious ones utilize PT and I'm a Steinberger. I can get around in PT so give me a couple weeks on it and I'm sure it'll be just as easy but this whole moving scenario has caused me to wonder if maybe getting certified is a good investment.

I'm just feeling like I'm in a bit of a rut in life and need a change of scenery. My rough plan is to get certified, maybe land a job at a studio where I can actually earn more money (imagine that!), and eventually finish my half-finished music degree as well somewhere along the line.

What do you guys think?

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Deny everything and claim it's all "Haas-Moeller and Graffenfrimitz" MICING techniques and CAN'T be removed from the tracks without damaging the stereo field due to the "Von Stauffenberg Effect".
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Old May 19th, 2009, 07:10 AM
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Default Re: Pro Tools certification. Should I do it?

If you're using it for the knowledge that you'll get, a crash course in ProTools if you will, then if you have the money, why not?

If you think the paper will somehow get you more work? I doubt it.
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Old May 19th, 2009, 07:20 AM
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Default Re: Pro Tools certification. Should I do it?

It makes it easier to get a foot in the door in some broadcast corporations, less so in studios.
It doesn't mean you're a good engineer (no dig at you here), but it means you know how to operate the beast. Which, in some cases, is a very good start.
If you can and it doesn't cost you an arm & a leg, go for it.
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Old May 19th, 2009, 07:40 AM
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Default Re: Pro Tools certification. Should I do it?

In my entire career I have never once been asked for proof of certification of any kind, so that's not really why I'm entertaining the idea. Your best resume is your work, I believe, and what a better record of it than a record!

See, the studio that I work at is a humble little studio built into my partners' house. We've done some great records (sorry if that sounds immodest; not my intention) there for both independent and major label artists so the place is definitely a comfortable, easy-going space to record and mix. We don't have the most top-shelf gear but over the years I've made it work and kept our clients happy. I'm actually very happy there overall as it's my little domain/safe zone. The only problem I have with it lately is that I feel like I'm the one in the rut and feel the need to expand.

Since the wifey and I have brought up this idea of moving to Cape Town my mind has been agreeing with and somewhat craving the new beginnings it may hold. It can't hurt to get the certification and plus it'll only further my skills, so why not, right? I just would like to be armed with the knowledge so that I can have the confidence to walk into just about any studio and attack the project with peace of mind and focus on the pertinent issues instead of the software. It'll be a real ego-crusher to get booked for a project and then look like a fool scratching his head as 'computer says no'.

I guess my biggest fear is that I won't have my 'safe zone' any more and want to be sure I can prevail down there. I think that's my main concern.

Cheers

PS. Before anyone asks, 'What if you get work at a studio that uses Logic?', I wanna say I don't know. I've worked on it before and found it, funnily enough, quite logical. The idea of having to know Logic bothers me a lot less, however, than PT.
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Originally Posted by Slipperman
Deny everything and claim it's all "Haas-Moeller and Graffenfrimitz" MICING techniques and CAN'T be removed from the tracks without damaging the stereo field due to the "Von Stauffenberg Effect".
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Old May 19th, 2009, 07:44 AM
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Default Re: Pro Tools certification. Should I do it?

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Originally Posted by Goes211 View Post
It makes it easier to get a foot in the door in some broadcast corporations, less so in studios.
Agreed.


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Originally Posted by Goes211 View Post
It doesn't mean you're a good engineer (no dig at you here), but it means you know how to operate the beast.
Didn't perceive a dig so no worries! Plus, you're right and those are my sentiments exactly.

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Originally Posted by Goes211 View Post
Which, in some cases, is a very good start.
If you can and it doesn't cost you an arm & a leg, go for it.
Yeah, it looks like it'll cost me around R10,000 (About $900) so that's pretty reasonable. I just need to get the wedding out of the way so I can start saving some more money! (Money? What's that?)

Cheers
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Deny everything and claim it's all "Haas-Moeller and Graffenfrimitz" MICING techniques and CAN'T be removed from the tracks without damaging the stereo field due to the "Von Stauffenberg Effect".
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Old May 19th, 2009, 08:05 AM
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Default Re: Pro Tools certification. Should I do it?

Yes I've got a foot in this camp, so I'm biased, but why not look at some online video tutorial training? Vastly cheaper than what you're looking at now.

As said before, if you need a piece of paper at the other end, then you've got to go via an official sanctioned route. But because you don't need the paper, just get a selection of video courses.

As an audio guy, I've got myself to a pretty decent standard in Final Cut Pro via online tutorials.
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Old May 19th, 2009, 08:18 AM
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Default Re: Pro Tools certification. Should I do it?

Yeah as I said, you're sort of paying for the paper. If you have the cash, then why not - however wifey may not agree

If you just want to learn PT and dont need the paper itself, then find another way. If you think you'll end up doing the PT cert later, do it now instead of paying and paying again.
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Old May 19th, 2009, 08:38 PM
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Default Re: Pro Tools certification. Should I do it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey MTC View Post
Yes I've got a foot in this camp, so I'm biased, but why not look at some online video tutorial training? Vastly cheaper than what you're looking at now.

As said before, if you need a piece of paper at the other end, then you've got to go via an official sanctioned route. But because you don't need the paper, just get a selection of video courses.

As an audio guy, I've got myself to a pretty decent standard in Final Cut Pro via online tutorials.
Quote:
Yeah as I said, you're sort of paying for the paper. If you have the cash, then why not - however wifey may not agree

If you just want to learn PT and dont need the paper itself, then find another way. If you think you'll end up doing the PT cert later, do it now instead of paying and paying again.
I see both your points, however, what I'm looking for is the opertunity to utilize a full HD system, which I don't have access to. The problem with just learning Pro Tools on my own is that, 1. I don't have the hardware, which you need to run the software, and 2. I don't get the hands-on experience with a full HD setup, which I want. And I don't want to run out and buy and M-Box either. Something tells me that just by learning through DVDs is not enough as well. I figure if I'm going to learn it, may as well go all the way.

Look, after all is said and done I'm a guy who's learned most of what he's learned on his own and I would like to have some sort of certification behind me. I really feel this is a good one to have. It's not that much money in total and because it's offered in modules, I can do them at my leisure. For part time study it's only one night a week for 3 hours per module and each module runs for 12 weeks. That's pretty easy going if you ask me.

On the contrary, what I'm going to do is start learning PT on a friend's Mbox system to at least get a hold of it. I'm going to go to the college too for a meeting to look at options. I'll let you know how it goes.

Cheers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slipperman
Deny everything and claim it's all "Haas-Moeller and Graffenfrimitz" MICING techniques and CAN'T be removed from the tracks without damaging the stereo field due to the "Von Stauffenberg Effect".
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Old May 19th, 2009, 08:44 PM
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Default Re: Pro Tools certification. Should I do it?

... on the other hand ... if you get certified and do not have opportunities to keep your skillsfresh due to lack of available hardware, then that might be less than optimal too, and then an M-box might give you more routine.

But this is written by someone who has no hands on experience with any species of Protools. So adjust to (your) reality.
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Old May 20th, 2009, 06:48 AM
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Default Re: Pro Tools certification. Should I do it?

Anyone who's used PT 5.x can jump into 6.x without much trouble.

7.x has a different menu system.

8.x is a totally different kettle of fish, they moved **everything**.

But the basic concepts are the same between all versions of the program going back to a decade ago.

Mo, given that you don't have and don't want to buy an Mbox to learn ProTools (which would cost less than this certification) then yes, do the certification...
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Old May 20th, 2009, 08:23 AM
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Default Re: Pro Tools certification. Should I do it?



As you can probably tell, I kinda already made up my mind about it but you guys have gotten me thinking alternatively, so thanks for the replies!

I'll give it some more thought.

I'm still going to go have a meeting with the enrollment guy at the college to get some more info, though.

Thanks again!

Cheers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slipperman
Deny everything and claim it's all "Haas-Moeller and Graffenfrimitz" MICING techniques and CAN'T be removed from the tracks without damaging the stereo field due to the "Von Stauffenberg Effect".
Pan Music Productions
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Old May 20th, 2009, 08:38 PM
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Default Re: Pro Tools certification. Should I do it?

I'd buy the cheapest version of PT8 and then go find an internship. Virtually no real pros are certified or likely to be impressed in any positive way.

The program is lots deeper than it appears. There are a dozen different ways to do anything and the best is likely to be very dependent on the precise kind of work you are doing and how the console, if any, is interfaced. You really need somebody to be showing you the ropes.
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Old May 21st, 2009, 08:21 AM
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Default Re: Pro Tools certification. Should I do it?

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Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
I'd buy the cheapest version of PT8 and then go find an internship. Virtually no real pros are certified or likely to be impressed in any positive way.
Bob, I know where you're coming from but I'm not looking to impress anybody at all. And don't get me wrong. I'm not a noob looking for some special piece of paper to get me ahead in my career and certainly I'm not looking to be an intern either (done that way too many years back). Quite frankly, I can't afford to be an intern as I make my living in audio already. Do you see my point?

The whole reason that I popped this question is because, 1. I don't have my own studio (but I run one full time), and 2. My soon-to-be wife and I are thinking of moving to another city where PT is the de facto standard in most studios and I need the experience. Plus, I'll have to build a new network there. THAT's it. So I figure, why not get certified in a part time regimen (one night a week for 3 hours for 12 weeks per module) and be armed with the knowledge so that when we get there I can walk into any studio and have the confidence to run a session in either PT or Nuendo. To me, it's a good investment to get the cert since I don't have my own studio which would justify going out and buying PT 8. And as far as the mentorship goes, I'm pretty confident that the guys at this school are sufficient to teach me what I want to learn. Plus, they have the most up-to-date systems which is the gear that I want to learn on.

Look, I know exactly what you guys are saying and if I was the one dishing out advice I'd probably say the same thing. But I think, given my circumstances, it just feels like the right thing to do. I wholeheartedly believe that buying an M-box with PT 8 is not going to give me the same learning curve as actually being in a fully-decked out facility learning from guys who are certified themselves and can supply a mentorship. There are only usually 5 guys to a class so I'm pretty sure that we'll be given sufficient attention.

See, I make records for a living whether it's with or without PT. I have a good network of clientele and up until now, knowing PT has been negligible. I have my own workspace/studio (like I said before it's not mine, but I'm the only engineer and I run the place) where I'm comfortable and could go on working professionally for as long as I'd like. The crux of the matter is moving to a new place, virtually uprooting myself from my current studio, and building a new network. I agree, learning on my own with an M-box system would probably work, but since I'm a guy who, like most of us, has hacked away at this craft for years, a little certification seems like a good investment and a good way to gain knowledge, especially in the scenario of walking into a new town looking for work.

The piece of paper can go fuck itself. I'm looking for the most in-depth training/experience I can get.

Cheers

PS. BTW, the entire certification costs $2100. An M-box system costs $500. $1600 is little more to pay for this amount of knowledge on a full HD system:



But like I said in one of my previous posts, I'm still sussing it out so if I go to the college and find out it's all remedial bullshit and a waste of money, I'll think it over again.
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Deny everything and claim it's all "Haas-Moeller and Graffenfrimitz" MICING techniques and CAN'T be removed from the tracks without damaging the stereo field due to the "Von Stauffenberg Effect".
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Old May 21st, 2009, 08:56 AM
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Default Re: Pro Tools certification. Should I do it?

Tell you what, I used to teach the equivalent to the 100 levels of Pro Tools and probably the 201. The guys who had an MBox or whatever retained the knowledge, the guys who learnt it and then went on their merry way didn't.

Little different since you're already experienced in a DAW, but you get what I mean, surely?
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Old May 21st, 2009, 08:56 AM
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Default Re: Pro Tools certification. Should I do it?

Which course are you thinking of doing?


I've done up to 310 but in all honesty, the best session was when the guy meant to take the course was away and we had someone else come in, who went off on a complete tangent and showed us how to get the best out of the PT mixer.


I think the key part to operating PT (in my eyes) is getting a grasp of all the key cuts, which I feel you can only learn through repetition. Even if you don't know the program back to front, if you know the main edit keys then at least you wont be slow in early sessions.


Do they sell the course books separately? Given that you already know how to work a studio maybe get the book and the M-Box?


Just a thought...
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Old May 21st, 2009, 09:00 AM
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Default Re: Pro Tools certification. Should I do it?

It says 7 on the graphics. If that is true, you pay for obsolete knowledge.
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Old May 21st, 2009, 09:04 AM
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Default Re: Pro Tools certification. Should I do it?

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It says 7 on the graphics. If that is true, you pay for obsolete knowledge.

Do you think some one has told Digidesign that Pro Tools is now at v8?
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Old May 21st, 2009, 09:13 AM
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Default Re: Pro Tools certification. Should I do it?

I don't know, who runs these workshops/courses. When I read college I automatically think public or semi-public institution. This, however, is no guarantee in itself for a high standard.

Just last week, I told some third year students at the "pop sound production" line at our university, that it would be better to put the blankets behind the singer than to put them behind the cardioid mic, when they record lead vocals in a shitty room. What the fuck is that about?
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Old May 21st, 2009, 09:30 AM
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Default Re: Pro Tools certification. Should I do it?

I see your point.....


I'm assuming Digidesign make sure the places giving the accreditations keep up to date. They seem to be a little more exclusive than say approved Steinberg centres (which seem to be in every third rate college around).
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Old May 21st, 2009, 10:01 AM
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Default Re: Pro Tools certification. Should I do it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by assemblyworker View Post
I think the key part to operating PT (in my eyes) is getting a grasp of all the key cuts, which I feel you can only learn through repetition. Even if you don't know the program back to front, if you know the main edit keys then at least you wont be slow in early sessions.
That is excellent advice, and absolutely true for any DAW.

As for PT, in essence, the LE software is identical to the HD version. Sure, there are differences, but in terms of operating and editing if you're a jedi with LE, you'll be a jedi with HD in no time.
Your main hurdle in any other studio will not be the software, but more likely the interfacing and the routing (which will be different from studio to studio).

So if you're looking at getting fast with PT, you can get proficient enough with an m-box.

One more thing : PT8 is different in appearance and has a ton of cool new features, but really if you're comfortable with any 7.x version you'll only enjoy v8. The vast majority of keys/shortcuts are absolutely the same and the basic architecture is totally identical. It won't take you more than half an hour (if that much) to be able to do on PT8 what you did on 7.x
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