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  #101  
Old August 29th, 2009, 02:13 AM
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Default Re: Sheryl Crow vocal sound

I think its fair to say that most of the gear was from the 40s through the 70s, a little 80s, virtually no 90s except a critical factor, 996 (which was very 90s). The EAR mod to the C37 was first done in about 87, and I bought machine #3, 1991.

I wasn't directing anything towards anyone but to the overall direction of the conversation.

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  #102  
Old August 29th, 2009, 02:22 AM
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Default Re: Sheryl Crow vocal sound

a) I"m not at all against thread drift... it's part of what makes the internets interesting (when it is)


b) One thing I would suggest is well taken from Dan's point is that a lot of people who read "they used a Fairchild" think to themselves: "well I could use the Bomb Factory Fairchild plug-in then. That's the SAME THING", without realising how ridiculous that actually is.

It's a lot easier to 'believe' that Analogue Channel sounds like an ATR 102 if you've never actually USED an ATR 102.
that's all.
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  #103  
Old August 29th, 2009, 02:24 AM
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Default Re: Sheryl Crow vocal sound

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The EAR mod to the C37 was first done in about 87, and I bought machine #3, 1991.
I've heard some amazing recordings made with those machines, but never worked on one. Did it change your approach much in how hard you hit the tape, compared to regular 1/2-inch?


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  #104  
Old August 29th, 2009, 03:06 AM
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Default Re: Sheryl Crow vocal sound

WW said it all perfectly.

The EAR machine is the first 2-track I ever bought and used a lot. So its hard for me to compare it to anything else as I'm not an engineer but a musician who acquired engineer's tools more or less by default in order to achieve the sound I was after. It was the first 2-track I heard that made my ears go "There it is, the sound I think is good". So it was a bit of putting my money where my ears were.

But even so I prefer to leave it in others' hands to use, Bill or lately Eric Liljestrand. My ears relax when its the platform, so I relax. Bill once said it was the only machine he ever used that sounded like his mixes (which btw is not always what he wants). I know it can be hit very hard. With good tape its virtually silent.

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  #105  
Old August 29th, 2009, 06:00 AM
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Default Re: Sheryl Crow vocal sound

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WW said it all perfectly.

The EAR machine is the first 2-track I ever bought and used a lot. So its hard for me to compare it to anything else as I'm not an engineer but a musician who acquired engineer's tools more or less by default in order to achieve the sound I was after. It was the first 2-track I heard that made my ears go "There it is, the sound I think is good". So it was a bit of putting my money where my ears were.
Interesting POV!

Having been a musician for many years, I've found it difficult at times to listen carefully... intently... to the sound, what with chords and notes (and lyrics) rattling around in my brain.

And there are probably some people who are more preoccupied with sound...

But one thing I've observed is that the two are inseparable;

You can have great music and butcher it through bad recording and/or mixing (I've had first hand experience in this) and OTOH one may enhance music and bring it to a higher level (or at least not fuck it up) through skillful and/or ingenious, audio engineering which I believe is the purpose of this forum.

For me, the enhancement is subtle. Extreme digital editing isn't something I want to go into right now, since I'm not going fishing and I don't need to open up a whole new can of worms
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  #106  
Old August 29th, 2009, 07:48 AM
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Default Re: Sheryl Crow vocal sound

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..one may enhance music and bring it to a higher level (or at least not fuck it up) through skillful and/or ingenious, audio engineering which I believe is the purpose of this forum.
Yup! That sums up why I'm here.
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  #107  
Old August 29th, 2009, 05:14 PM
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Default Re: Sheryl Crow vocal sound

For me the whole thing, all of it, is physical. I play physically, I play the bass that feels right for the song to my hands and body. So working with machine #2 in early 91 I recognized something that would move me closer to the physical sensation of playing. I only got into buying recording equipment in order to get to that; I'd been unable to find any engineers who could record me as I wanted to be heard. So I started learning about recording and how it worked and then buying and bringing along my own stuff. Bill was pretty reluctant in the early years but as its been nearly 2 decades he gradually adjusted to what I was doing. I was lucky that he was aware of my work with Hassell. The TNMC record and Baerwald's "Triage" are a little bit of the way into it. The EAR machine was the first big step. By Linda Perry's record he had changed his monitoring. I learned a lot about mics from him.

I was recently talking to one of my childhood heroes, a great comic artist of the late 60s, and telling him about my departure from that and into music - I got convinced when I was 13 I couldn't make a living that way, but I could by playing bass (I was too slow to churn out the pages and still be as good as I expected of myself, just like him). I said to him the only thing I've missed over the years is the physical sensation that the pen or pencil conducted into my hand from being moved across the paper. He understood me completely. I hear and play the same way. I look for a physical or whole-body-oriented experience of sound. I think while we literally hear with our ears, we experience the thing with our whole bodies. Of course, that might be artistic delusion, but its what I do and have always done.

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  #108  
Old August 29th, 2009, 06:43 PM
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Default Re: Sheryl Crow vocal sound

It's not delusion. When I play, which often leads to writing, I look for the chi to flow and shoot off sparks from my spine.
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  #109  
Old August 29th, 2009, 08:37 PM
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Default Re: Sheryl Crow vocal sound

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F... By Linda Perry's record he had changed his monitoring. I learned a lot about mics from him.

can you elaborate on that? (would you?)


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I was recently talking to one of my childhood heroes, a great comic artist of the late 60s,
that wouldn't be Crumb, would it?





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It's not delusion. When I play... I look for the chi to flow and shoot off sparks from my spine.

you should find a doctor and have that seen to
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  #110  
Old August 29th, 2009, 09:04 PM
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Default Re: Sheryl Crow vocal sound

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that wouldn't be Crumb, would it?
No, Steranko.

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  #111  
Old August 29th, 2009, 09:18 PM
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Default Re: Sheryl Crow vocal sound

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can you elaborate on that?(would you?)
When we first started he was mostly using small Tannoys and a Bryston or tube Dyna. By 95 he was using a Crown Macro-Reference that I had brought out and the first production pair of Snell Type B. I owned the prototype (still do, David Bock had them for many years). Now he kind of moves around a lot.

Before the TNMC period the only mics I owned were a Sony C37a and the EAR mics I bought with the C37 and the 824M, but in those years I got to try a lot of the classic mics and really see the kinds of hallucinations that you could get going with them.

OK, gentlemens. I'm off - down to Carlsbad for the opening weekend of the Moog exhibit at the NAMM museum. The picture in my avatar was taken here last month by Mr. Kehew for the program and fliers. Keith Emerson is playing tonight, Larry Fast talking tomorrow.


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  #112  
Old August 30th, 2009, 02:13 AM
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Default Re: Sheryl Crow vocal sound

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the first production pair of Snell Type B.
That's an unusual choice of monitors, in fact I don't think I've heard of anyone else using Snells in the studio. Did the B's have that back-firing tweeter?

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  #113  
Old August 30th, 2009, 03:08 PM
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Default Re: Sheryl Crow vocal sound

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It's not delusion. When I play, which often leads to writing, I look for the chi to flow and shoot off sparks from my spine.
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Originally Posted by weedywet View Post

you should find a doctor and have that seen to
Or maybe an electrician

I think different musicians have similar experiences and describe them differently.

I come up with original music in one of 2 basic ways:

1) music automatically plays in my head and if something stands out, I quickly record a crude version of it before I forget about it, and

2) I'm playing guitar or keyboard and I stumble across something that stands out, so, again I record it before it's lost.
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  #114  
Old August 31st, 2009, 04:29 PM
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Default Re: Sheryl Crow vocal sound

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That's an unusual choice of monitors, in fact I don't think I've heard of anyone else using Snells in the studio. Did the B's have that back-firing tweeter?

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  #115  
Old August 31st, 2009, 04:43 PM
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Default Re: Sheryl Crow vocal sound

A back firing tweeter can help flatten out the early reflections in the room without mushing up the imaging from the direct sound.
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  #116  
Old August 31st, 2009, 04:58 PM
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Default Re: Sheryl Crow vocal sound

wow! I love this thread

i'm learning a lot

thx y'all!
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  #117  
Old August 31st, 2009, 10:25 PM
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Default Re: Sheryl Crow vocal sound

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Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
A back firing tweeter can help flatten out the early reflections in the room without mushing up the imaging from the direct sound.
They also help the depth of field significantly, but you have to have a bit of space around the speakers.

My experience with Snells is that they are kind of picky with amp designs. Maybe it's because of their high efficiency and generally very open, bright sound, but the best results I got with them was using tube amps (e.g. Audio Research).


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  #118  
Old September 1st, 2009, 09:50 PM
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Default Re: Sheryl Crow vocal sound

I used them for many years very successfully with BEL 1001 amps, a solid state 200 watt pair.

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  #119  
Old September 2nd, 2009, 12:09 AM
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Default Re: Sheryl Crow vocal sound

Yeah, a friend of mine uses Sentec solid-state amps with his C's and they sound great. Go figure. I guess it's just about finding a good match, whatever it is.


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  #120  
Old September 2nd, 2009, 04:29 PM
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Default Re: Sheryl Crow vocal sound

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I guess it's just about finding a good match, whatever it is.


otek



Is this a good match?


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