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Old January 29th, 2007, 12:43 AM
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Default Music Theory Online Free Tuition

Havent explored this greatly yet but it appears to be a useful tool.

http://www.musictheory.net/
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Old January 29th, 2007, 01:37 AM
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Thumbs Up! Re: Music Theory Online Free Tuition

p.s

after some exploring have decided the cooless things are the ear trainers...no not shoes for your ears but aural aids to learn to recognise scales, chords, etc.

Also has a print your own score sheet page which could save some folks some mula.
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Old January 29th, 2007, 01:41 AM
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Default Re: Music Theory Online Free Tuition

p.p.s. this is linked to the sire in the help section... who writes music like this??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_tone_technique
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Old January 29th, 2007, 02:05 AM
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Default Re: Music Theory Online Free Tuition

Quote:
Originally Posted by lebouche View Post
p.p.s. this is linked to the sire in the help section... who writes music like this??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_tone_technique

Oh, I dunno.. Arnold Schoenberg, Alban Berg, Alfred Reed... even Aaron Copland tried his hand at dodecaphonic toward the end of his composing life. 'Cause (as he explained to Leonard Bernstein) he "ran out of chords".

It can be a handy discipline if you follow the rules-- and even handier when you start to break them and apply them to non-12-tone stuff.
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Old January 29th, 2007, 04:30 AM
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Default Re: Music Theory Online Free Tuition

Quote:
Originally Posted by lebouche View Post
p.p.s. this is linked to the sire in the help section... who writes music like this??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_tone_technique
Zappa messed about with 12-tone also. There's a 12-tone section in the song called "Brown shoes don't make it".
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Old January 29th, 2007, 06:10 AM
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Default Re: Music Theory Online Free Tuition

Webern wrote some great stuff using 12-tone techniques.
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Old January 29th, 2007, 08:57 AM
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Default Re: Music Theory Online Free Tuition

nice site

cool place to practice !
explain the 12 tone approach a lil more. i am interrested
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Old January 29th, 2007, 03:54 PM
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Default Re: Music Theory Online Free Tuition

I completely forgot about Webern... knew there was at least one other guy. Stravinsky embraced the technique in his later years as well.

No, Bill Evans' Twelve Tone Tune is not dodecaphonic, at least not strictly so.

12-tone, or dodecaphonic, composition, relies on a few rules, which Schoenberg insisted were immutable:

The basic unit is the tone row-- a series of all twelve pitches of the chromatic scale arranged in such a way that it does not suggest a diatonic (or even a tonal) harmony. All material in the composition consists of that row and its compositional permutations-- original, retrograde, strict inversion, and retrograde inversion. Once the row starts, it needs to finish. Different rows may sound simultaneously. Notes may appear in any octave.

A hallmark of this type of composition is wilfully obfuscated rhythm, i.e., the listener is not easily able to tell where the bar line is.

As usual, Wikipedia has more to say on the subject.
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Old January 30th, 2007, 10:31 AM
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Default Re: Music Theory Online Free Tuition

12 tone is a ridiculous set of compositional rules. It's attempt at breaking the rules, so to speak, is largely amusical without having to actually think. Ornette Coleman or McCoy Tyner broke the rules with so much more panache. That is, they used their heart, mind, ears, soul rather than artificially preconceived anti-musical connect-the-dots composition-for-the-sake-of-composition. 12 tone music is basically only useful for horror movie soundtracks. Worst idea ever. Possibly a precursor to math rock. Not sure. Go fish.

Apologies, but I felt I had to speak on this one.

P.S. My fingernails on the chalkboard improvisations will be made available in 32 kbps mp3 format soon. Keep your ears peeeeeeled.

Last edited by fizbin; January 30th, 2007 at 11:26 AM.
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Old January 30th, 2007, 05:00 PM
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Default Re: Music Theory Online Free Tuition

Quote:
Originally Posted by fizbin View Post
12 tone is a ridiculous set of compositional rules. It's attempt at breaking the rules, so to speak, is largely amusical without having to actually think. Ornette Coleman or McCoy Tyner broke the rules with so much more panache. That is, they used their heart, mind, ears, soul rather than artificially preconceived anti-musical connect-the-dots composition-for-the-sake-of-composition. 12 tone music is basically only useful for horror movie soundtracks. Worst idea ever. Possibly a precursor to math rock. Not sure. Go fish.

Apologies, but I felt I had to speak on this one.

P.S. My fingernails on the chalkboard improvisations will be made available in 32 kbps mp3 format soon. Keep your ears peeeeeeled.

Well, actually that set of rules might come handy to some composers that use it and take advantage to it. There are some works by Schoenberg, Alban Berg, Webern that are totally devoid of your "artificially preconceived anti-musical connect-the-dots composition-for-the-sake-of-composition".
Even Stravinsky used it in a very effective way.

It's just a technique, if you use almost ANY writing technique without good musical ideas then you'll have nothing, but if you have good musical ideas, you can treat them any way you like it and they might still be VERY interesting.

Sorry for the hijacking of the thread
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Old January 30th, 2007, 05:08 PM
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Default Re: Music Theory Online Free Tuition

as usual ... if you have no clue it all sounds a lil confusing ?
ive read through the explantations that can be found on the net, i heard some 12tone music, i had a lil time speaking to composers who are doing it ... still

i dont get the idea for real behind the concept

its chromatic approach, every note has to be in there, no note should be repeated etc. please give me a real basic example that makes my tiny brain go " BINGO ".
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Old January 30th, 2007, 06:11 PM
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Default Re: Music Theory Online Free Tuition

It's an interesting exercise. For me, twelve-tone arises from two concepts to which I don't hold: subjective standards of beauty and the need to be original. Neither interests me very much.

But like I say, it's an interesting exercise. Some of it sounds neato.
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Old January 30th, 2007, 06:29 PM
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Default Re: Music Theory Online Free Tuition

Quote:
Originally Posted by amopae View Post
Well, actually that set of rules might come handy to some composers that use it and take advantage to it. There are some works by Schoenberg, Alban Berg, Webern that are totally devoid of your "artificially preconceived anti-musical connect-the-dots composition-for-the-sake-of-composition".
Even Stravinsky used it in a very effective way.

It's just a technique, if you use almost ANY writing technique without good musical ideas then you'll have nothing, but if you have good musical ideas, you can treat them any way you like it and they might still be VERY interesting.

Sorry for the hijacking of the thread
Nicely put.

Schoenberg et al. opted to use the technique in an atonal context but that doesn't mean it can't be adapted to a tonal one. For example you could get some additional mileage just by relaxing the edict of structuring the row so as not to suggest tonality. (I know, I've done that.)

Hell, you don't need to use 12 tones either to use these techniques.. then of course it's not dodecaphonic but probably closer to a form of pandiatonicism (provided you are using a diatonic scale or mode as your source material).
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Old January 31st, 2007, 06:40 PM
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Default Re: Music Theory Online Free Tuition

To me, this approach very much feels and sounds like an attempt at being different just to be different without a real sonic reason. Why should I use every tone once and only once? Ridiculous. I want to use A# twice and G not at all. There. Bite me Schoenborg.
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Old January 31st, 2007, 06:51 PM
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Default Re: Music Theory Online Free Tuition

OK, so it's not for everybody.

If you prefer to think of it as a challenge, to see if you've got anything to say using some set or subset of rules, then it could work. If you prefer not to use it at all, that's fine too.

All this is, is a set of options, and perhaps one of its intentions is to get one to think a little bit differently about the compositional process. I don't write this way as a matter of course, but it's just one more tool in my arsenal in case I ever run my composition down a blind alley or up a tree and can't get back down.
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Old January 31st, 2007, 09:57 PM
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Default Re: Music Theory Online Free Tuition

Actually 12 tone composition is often handled a bit more "relaxed". There are some more different rules.

For example, you can repeat single notes directly after another; and you can group notes together to chords. Now add the fact that you can have more than one 12-tone row going at once.

One idea behind the whole principle was to avoid any semblances to traditional harmony; by using all 12 notes one most likely would avoid "favouring" certain notes and hence creating an "imbalance" toward them (and by this possibly creating a "tonal" feel for a certain piece).

A 12-tone row in itself doesn't have to sound atonal or non-harmonic; a famous example would be the row for Alban Berg's violin concerto.

One really basic and comparatively easy to understand example for a 12-tone composition would be Schoenberg's "Suite for piano op.25"; especially the "Praeludium" and the "Trio".
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Old February 3rd, 2007, 12:10 AM
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Actually 12 tone composition is often handled a bit more "relaxed". There are some more different rules.
My personal favorite extra rule would be:
  • You may use any of the 12 tones as often or as little as you like.
Whattya think? Am I on to something?

fizbin
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Old February 3rd, 2007, 01:27 AM
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Originally Posted by fizbin View Post
My personal favorite extra rule would be:
  • You may use any of the 12 tones as often or as little as you like.
Whattya think? Am I on to something?

fizbin

yeah, you're onto something....tonic center.




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Old February 3rd, 2007, 06:26 PM
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Default Re: Music Theory Online Free Tuition

Quote:
Originally Posted by fizbin View Post
My personal favorite extra rule would be:
  • You may use any of the 12 tones as often or as little as you like.
Whattya think? Am I on to something?

fizbin
There's an EVH quote in there, just hiding to get out...
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Old February 5th, 2007, 03:58 AM
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Default Re: Music Theory Online Free Tuition

Quote:
Originally Posted by omikl View Post
There's an EVH quote in there, just hiding to get out...
I should hope to be as much as half as talented and at them same time a quarter as self-assured.

Last edited by fizbin; February 5th, 2007 at 05:48 AM.
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